2G Cam recommendations for my setup?

97awd-turbo · Jun 26, 2016

I have been doing alot of research and can't seem to find anything or much on the td05 20g cam upgrade recommendations. I was leaning towards FP2 but do they still sell new? so no I was looking at the Combo set that Forcedperformance sells aiming at the Brian Crower 268/272 with the retainer and springs set. My profile is up date and atteched is a snapshot of it. Planning to get it tuned as soon as I install the cams so any help would be appreciated! Thank you!

engine is all bolt ons no head or block work done. 7 bolt 105k original miles.

keltalon · Jun 28, 2016

19gsx91 said:
What turbo was this with Kel? That's impressive.

Ignore anyone saying you can't run with cam with this turbo, It's just someone's opinion. Since there are about 20 different 20g variants you'd have to be more specific as to your setup, the bastard tdo5 20g is a gem and would respond amazingly with cam upgrades, and some of the larger, td06 setups might push the power band to far to the right to be "useable" on the street.

That being said, keltalons entire FWD setup I wouldn't consider "useable" on the street but he seems to love it. so (rock on Kel btw, your posts are pretty inspiring)

Just break down for us simplistically what you want. What EXACTLY you plan to do with the car, and what exactly your 20g turbo is, it will help the more experienced users give an informed opinion on what might best suit you. Also what boost level your running and about what RPM you'd like to see it would help.

Borg warner s259 journal bearing.

97awd-turbo · Jun 28, 2016

19gsx91 said:
What turbo was this with Kel? That's impressive.

Ignore anyone saying you can't run with cam with this turbo, It's just someone's opinion. Since there are about 20 different 20g variants you'd have to be more specific as to your setup, the bastard tdo5 20g is a gem and would respond amazingly with cam upgrades, and some of the larger, td06 setups might push the power band to far to the right to be "useable" on the street.

That being said, keltalons entire FWD setup I wouldn't consider "useable" on the street but he seems to love it. so (rock on Kel btw, your posts are pretty inspiring)

Just break down for us simplistically what you want. What EXACTLY you plan to do with the car, and what exactly your 20g turbo is, it will help the more experienced users give an informed opinion on what might best suit you. Also what boost level your running and about what RPM you'd like to see it would help.

The turbo is a td05 20g with a 14b compressor housing and 7 blade billet wheel from turbo lab. I don't drive the car much just because. Most of the time it will be in my garage (only added 15k in the 4 years I've owned it not bc it was broke either LOL

) basically want a decent weekend street warrior. I read and people usually run about 20-25lbs so around there is where I'd want to be for boost level. I am leaning towards the hks at the moment, but that car listed above is nice!

19gsx91 · Jun 28, 2016

So I would imagine it'll be a relatively fast spooling turbo, I'd say just do some research and pick the one that seems most suited to your wants and needs, I'd say if you're looking to keep the car streetable then a good 264/272 split or a set of 272s would be ideal, what is your budget?

DKS cams
Comp cams
BC
Crower
Kelfords
HKS

those are all viable options that make a "272" series grind, almost in order from cheapest (dks) to most expensive. I may have missed a brand or two, If so I'm sure someone will chime in.

Then it falls down to used or new? there are some cam sets on the classifieds now and also don't be afraid to check out the GalantVR4 forums as it's all 4G63 and they're cams will work IIRC

Also be sure that it is drilled and tapped properly for a CAS, but that may be misinformation as 2gs are not something I am incredibly familiar with.

Tiki2777 · Jun 28, 2016

This is ridiculous, recommending Crower cams over BC? There has been at least one I can remember evo (1/2/3) that used a Crower 272 setup that had a completely off center ground cam, JUNK. A crazy amount of people have used the budget BC cams and made HP gains from them, and a proper powerband change for bigger turbos. Kelfords don't properly advertise their duration, and many in the past have snapped a cam in half from them, but still a great cam for those who want the big dyno numbers and ALL top end.

GSC Power Division is fantastic, for a fast spooling setup use the S1s. HKS is SOOOOO overpriced for a ridiculously mild cam, super ancient design that they haven't touched since they first pumped out the first batch, whereas BC has redone all their 4g63 DSM cam stages. Sure HK$ will get the job done, but that money could be spent elsewhere.

FP is basically the Comp cams with different centerlines (excluding the X and R race grinds). The comp 101100 or 101200 fits small framed turbos well. Finding FP cams is difficult as they aren't in production anymore.

I wouldn't use a regrind because shimming lifters to me is a very janky setup imho.

19gsx91 · Jun 28, 2016

Tiki2777 said:
This is ridiculous, recommending Crower cams over BC? There has been at least one I can remember evo (1/2/3) that used a Crower 272 setup that had a completely off center ground cam, JUNK. A crazy amount of people have used the budget BC cams and made HP gains from them, and a proper powerband change for bigger turbos. Kelfords don't properly advertise their duration, and many in the past have snapped a cam in half from them, but still a great cam for those who want the big dyno numbers and ALL top end.

GSC Power Division is fantastic, for a fast spooling setup use the S1s. HKS is SOOOOO overpriced for a ridiculously mild cam, super ancient design that they haven't touched since they first pumped out the first batch, whereas BC has redone all their 4g63 DSM cam stages. Sure HK$ will get the job done, but that money could be spent elsewhere.

FP is basically the Comp cams with different centerlines (excluding the X and R race grinds). The comp 101100 or 101200 fits small framed turbos well. Finding FP cams is difficult as they aren't in production anymore.

I wouldn't use a regrind because shimming lifters to me is a very janky setup imho.

Here we go all over again. I was just mentioning the cams that made 272 grinds. I did forget the GSC. None of them by any means was a suggestion with the exception of comp cams/fp2s, which is the only camshaft I have firsthand experience with.. if you read the first page.

I was just informing him of his possible options based on what he's looking for, which seem to be a 272 grind.

the only useful information you've managed to provide is:
GSC - Good cam, fast spool check out the S1.
HKS - overpriced, I don't think anybody needs to type that ever again since everyone should know that by now. it's common knowledge.
FP/Comp - good for small framed turbos.
Any regrinds - janky setup? Have you personally used them? I haven't so I don't have an opinion on it but to call something "janky" with no firsthand experience is a bit ignorant.

FlyinTalon · Jun 28, 2016

keltalon said:
My recommendation go with bc 272s my old dyno with bc272s 500lbs torque early hp early.
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Thanks for chimin in Keltalon I was thinking of you. That's all I was trying to say, is the cams aren't bad, and you'll hear a lot of people that don't have first hand experience try to tell you their junk. I wasn't trying to sale them or nothing. Guess somebody with a lil more weight had to step in say there good! Thank you I'm done!

97awd-turbo · Jun 28, 2016

19gsx91 said:
So I would imagine it'll be a relatively fast spooling turbo, I'd say just do some research and pick the one that seems most suited to your wants and needs, I'd say if you're looking to keep the car streetable then a good 264/272 split or a set of 272s would be ideal, what is your budget?

DKS cams
Comp cams
BC
Crower
Kelfords
HKS

those are all viable options that make a "272" series grind, almost in order from cheapest (dks) to most expensive. I may have missed a brand or two, If so I'm sure someone will chime in.

Then it falls down to used or new? there are some cam sets on the classifieds now and also don't be afraid to check out the GalantVR4 forums as it's all 4G63 and they're cams will work IIRC

Also be sure that it is drilled and tapped properly for a CAS, but that may be misinformation as 2gs are not something I am incredibly familiar with.

Thanks for the info. My budget was around $600 but I just ordered some timing belt, water pump and all other belts as well so left with somewhere between $300-$400 as of now. Will have to negotiate with the wife again for more parts LOL

.

Thanks for your inputs everyone. I will wait for a bit to see if there are any on the forums first. If not I will decide which one will be a good set for me. Thanks for the info on the bc cams as well. Now I'm having second thoughts if I should just try them out or not... Thanks again!

daren_p · Jun 28, 2016

For your goals & a broad powerband I'd be looking at Kelford 264's or GSC S1's. I run the Kelford 264's, great powerboand, they have more lift & duration then typical "264" cam's. Their typically about as drop in & go as you can get. The GSC S1's also look like a good option, just after I purchased my Kelfords several years back GSC revised their cams & added more lift & duration, so believe their the most aggressive "264" cams you can get (unless other manufacturers have changed their profiles, since I've looked). I typically run ~30psi on my 82HTA & still think its a great cam as my car is mainly my summer daily with some lapping time, don't spend much time drag racing, so don't feel the need to go bigger.

Edit: If wondering my posted dyno #'s aren't current & were done with a different turbo/cam/motor.

mantega4g63 · Jun 28, 2016

Yeah his budget was 600 and is now 400 and you guys are telling him to put in aggressive cams that generally come AFTER the big upgrades everyone has recommended. So yeah just ignore my post and go ahead with your small budget to build the s*** out of your head with cheap parts. I recommended 264 or a 264 variation, such as the wisemen have said as well. But yeah dont listen to the person telling you to take your time and do it when youre ready. Take it from the guy who didn't even recommend a cam, just a brand. And he says i'm not helping, hah!

90laserRSfwd · Jun 28, 2016

The cams we are recommending are not over kill at all (GSC S1 or HKS 272/272). Plenty of EVO III 16g cars running the same cams. Maybe your comment wasn't directed at me?

TravisB · Jun 28, 2016

keltalon said:
I run the BC276 and also love them the best part dynoed 801whp and 608lbs tq and idles like stock! Lately they have been having a problem keeping them in stock I wonder why
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It takes more then a dyno graph and peak numbers to determine how good the cams work. Also Intake manifold, runner length, header, turbocharger, etc come into play. So simply posting an 800WHP graph with the smoothing at 5/5 doesnt mean the cams are fantastic and the best choice. The reason one camset is out of stock is probably because they sold out before the production run was finished from their supplier. Being one of the cheapest camsets on the market doesnt hurt things either.

91tsiawdtalon4g63 · Jun 28, 2016

I made 351whp with a set of s1's on a tdo5 20g cast wheel. I had a buyer but he's out of money at the moment and said to sell them if need be. Pm me if you want them. Upgraded to s2 for my fp black

keltalon · Jun 28, 2016

TravisB said:
It takes more then a dyno graph and peak numbers to determine how good the cams work. Also Intake manifold, runner length, header, turbocharger, etc come into play. So simply posting an 800WHP graph with the smoothing at 5/5 doesnt mean the cams are fantastic and the best choice. The reason one camset is out of stock is probably because they sold out before the production run was finished from their supplier. Being one of the cheapest camsets on the market doesnt hurt things either.

You are so right it does takes more that a dyno. Here are the 276 in action IMO when a cam ripps 4th gear they are fantastic ! oh by the way call up bc and ask them why they can't keep the 276 in stock LOL

.

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bc 276 on low boost is why they are out of stock.

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TravisB · Jun 28, 2016

keltalon said:
You are so right it does takes more that a dyno. Here are the 276 in action IMO when a cam ripps 4th gear they are fantastic ! oh by the way call up bc and ask them why they can't keep the 276 in stock .

Again posting a video is about as useful as your dyno chart. What really counts is the same setup with a different set of cams in it to be able to compare. LOL

Rips in 4th gear. I dont really have any desire to call up BC because i dont intend to run any of their products so there is no reason for me to waste their and my time. Until you can post up a dyno chart of the exact same setup with different cams. Your posts hold no merit to me.

mantega4g63 · Jun 28, 2016

So your 800whp fwd eclipse beat a 600whp mustang and can spin 4th gear? Making sure im getting all this

keltalon · Jun 28, 2016

mantega4g63 said:
So your 800whp fwd eclipse beat a 600whp mustang and can spin 4th gear? Making sure im getting all this

nope I dynoed 800@44psi in that video I was running only 33psi LOL

.

TravisB said:
Again posting a video is about as useful as your dyno chart. What really counts is the same setup with a different set of cams in it to be able to compare. Rips in 4th gear. I dont really have any desire to call up BC because i dont intend to run any of their products so there is no reason for me to waste their and my time. Until you can post up a dyno chart of the exact same setup with different cams. Your posts hold no merit to me.

Well I done that as well LOL

. http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/ca...ta-hks-272-delta-k272-and-bc-272-cams.361516/

19gsx91 · Jun 28, 2016

Might as well give up Kelvin, This is quickly deteriorating from a cam recommendation/opinion thread into people who are more interested in bashing a certain brand without any actual first hand experience with it. The OP has the relevant information he's looking for and someone already reached out to him about selling a set of cams, as far as i'm concerned anything beyond this is just a pissing contest and quite pointless.

I've said it twice already. I don't have any opinion on any camshaft brand/manufacturer I have not run, the least the rest of you could do is share RELEVANT information based on FIRST HAND experiences. And Kel, You're car tickles me. Please tell me you at least had equal length half shafts to keep that thing somewhat straight

keltalon · Jun 28, 2016

19gsx91 said:
Might as well give up Kelvin, This is quickly deteriorating from a cam recommendation/opinion thread into people who are more interested in bashing a certain brand without any actual first hand experience with it. The OP has the relevant information he's looking for and someone already reached out to him about selling a set of cams, as far as i'm concerned anything beyond this is just a pissing contest and quite pointless.

I've said it twice already. I don't have any opinion on any camshaft brand/manufacturer I have not run, the least the rest of you could do is share RELEVANT information based on FIRST HAND experiences. And Kel, You're car tickles me. Please tell me you at least had equal length half shafts to keep that thing somewhat straight

Gotcha. yeah the car has no problem staying straight. I do get what you are saying though. Ok op I am getting back on track with cam recommendations Thanks 19gsx.

91tsiawdtalon4g63 · Jun 28, 2016

Keltalon did a full out test of different cams. I was close to buying some bc280s just from reading that. Only got the s2 due to glen trejo selling them cheap. I'm no expert but isn't it duration + lift = increased airflow therefore the higher lift cams make more power based off of that? Not a sarcastic question but just want facts on it. Cause i've read gsc and Kelfords have some of the highest lift (s1 10.5/11 s2 11/11.5 I believe) and kelford around the same comparing 268 s1 and 274 s2 to 272 high lift kelford.

97awd-turbo · Jun 28, 2016

Purchased a set already :hellyeah:

Thanks again for all the help!

Justin Lauscher · Jun 28, 2016

I run a tdo5h 20g also and I have the comp 102s (fp2). Compared to the stock cams I had (1g) the car punched you in the forehead beforehand and lost power fairly quick, after I installed the cams, I maintained the stock gears, spool was a tad later, like 200 rpms. The car didn't have the punch it had before but it was more of a gradual pull instead of that punch but now it doesn't lose any power up top, it just keeps going. I kind of miss the torque punch down low, but the more and more I run these cams I feel like they are better for my driving style. It's really how you want your car. I'm at 363hp according to ecmlink on 92, still trying to dial it in better. Endgame for pump is 400 if it's humanly possible with this turbo. Until I hit that I'll always be trying until e85 hits my town.

90laserRSfwd · Jun 28, 2016

What cams did you end with?

FlyinTalon · Jun 28, 2016

97awd-turbo said:
Purchased a set already

Please share!

97awd-turbo · Jun 29, 2016

Ok so since my car is at 104k, I decided to spend more money on the maintanance areas such as a timing belt kit, arp head studs, revived lifters, (valve locks;not maint but something I'd have to get anyways). As much as I wanted to get an HKS or GSCs just on the listed above already costed me around $500 already so for me to spend another $500 or so on just cams and the another $200 or so on retainers and springs would be too much for me at the moment. Therefore I decided to go with the Brian Crower 268/272 combo with retainers/springs. I figured I'd give it a try to see where things go. If I'm I plan to upgrade later I can sell it for what it's worth and by then I'll have more cash and will already have upgraded springs/retainers so yea,.. again I would love to get a more expensive set but it's a budget issue at this time (although I e also read good reviews as well) and priority towards maintenance. thanks again for all the help! :pray:

keltalon · Jun 29, 2016

91tsiawdtalon4g63 said:
Keltalon did a full out test me different cams. I was close to buying some bc280s just from reading that. Only got the s2 due to glen trejo selling them cheap. I'm no expert but isn't it duration + lift = increased airflow therefore the higher lift cams make more power based off of that? Not a sarcastic question but just want facts on it. Cause i've read gsc and Kelfords have some of the highest lift (s1 10.5/12 s2 11/11.5 I believe) and kelford around the same comparing 268 s1 and 274 s2 to 272 high lift kelford.

Yes the higher lift shorter duration is exactly what the new line of bc cams are all about.

97awd-turbo said:
Ok so since my car is at 104k, I decided to spend more money on the maintanance areas such as a timing belt kit, arp head studs, revived lifters, (valve locks;not maint but something I'd have to get anyways). As much as I wanted to get an HKS or GSCs just on the listed above already costed me around $500 already so for me to spend another $500 or so on just cams and the another $200 or so on retainers and springs would be too much for me at the moment. Therefore I decided to go with the Brian Crower 268/272 combo with retainers/springs. I figured I'd give it a try to see where things go first after tuning it. If I'm I plan to upgrade later I can sell it for what it's worth and by then I'll have more cash and will already have upgraded springs/retainers so yea,.. I'll post up the info once I get it dynoed just in case anyone cares. If I can get pass 350awhp I'd be satisfy thanks again for all the help!

Trust me you will not need to upgrade from the bc stage 1 anytime soon. The above post mention loosing down low torque with the bc stage 1 that will not happen and trust me you will not be at all disappointed!!

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