cmehlxl said:

there's a reason ferrari owners own ferraris, corvette owners own corvettes, classic guys own classics, and dsm guys own dsms. dsms are budget cars. if we had 10k to dump into them at once, we probably would have just bought a new car in the first place.

browse any mustang, camaro, TA, evo, wrx car forum and you'll see the same things you see on here. same thing with street bikes. why? because these cars cost 2-5k and guys piece them together... 90% of them enjoy working on cars and the rest are looking for "budget fast" on a car they already own.

i dont buy ebay parts anymore but one of the reasons i like dsms and hondas are because the parts are readily available.. whether it's used oem, replica, or ebay.

i understand you're an elitist and all, but ever think that ebay parts are the reason why there's such a big community of owners? i think that's something we all should be grateful for.

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I think he meant the really bad Ebay knock off parts that uninformed tuners buy on there, like the cold air intakes that rot after a week of use, or the infamous chips that add a claimed 50whp, but in reality all they are is an over glorified light bulb thats wired in to the stock harness, so now your molesting an otherwise pristine dsm wire harness[albeit while not making any more hp and adding dead weight], potentially making more work for yourself to undue in the future, or in some extreme cases wrecking a dsm forever...

Thats not to say that good stuff for dsms can't be had on Ebay some sellers are dsmers and are selling legit oem or better replacement parts on there, but again you have to know what to look for and know for sure that it's what your getting.

pauleyman said:

If you're making it work and working with what you have, safely, cleanly then more power to you. Hot rodding has its roots based on those attitudes.

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I disagree. hot rodding has its roots based on cheap do it yourself mods. guys didnt go to the parts store or order from a catalog until the late 70s and early 80's.. for 50 years (1920-1970) they threw parts from various cars together in a jumbled mess with a function over form attitude. certainly not safely and cleanly. and definitely not from vendors that pay to sponsor a website.

honda_burner said:

Back in the glory days of this forum, that would be taken down without prejudice. Nowadays, it seems everyone's gotten a little lax. I remember being warned multiple times for bad grammar and what not. Now it's just the norm.

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I assure you, the small staff here makes every effort to clean up crap when we see it. If you knew the amount of BS that gets flagged and removed by the staff on a daily basis, you'd $hit yourself.

As this place gets bigger and gains more members, it becomes exponentially more difficult to catch each offense of poor grammar, misinformation, and poop slinging. So, yes, back in the glory days it was easier to clean up after a smaller base of members.

Here's the thing, it's just as much your responsibility to keep this place $hit free as it is mine, or the next guy's. When you see poor grammar, misinformation, and poop slinging, take the 2 seconds to "report" the post so it gets brought to someone's (the staff's) attention. If everyone did their part, the garbage content you see on occasion would become virtually nonexistent.

Help us so we can help you, and the community as a whole will ultimately benefit.

Bourgeois DSM snobbery? Over a platform that can be had just about any day of the week for an average of $1500? Really?

chrysler kid said:

There aren't any dsm's for sale on Craigslist here in dallas.

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I just spotted 15 1G and 2G Eclipses on the Dallas C-list. Some were even GSXs.

i agree. to a point. if you cant afford quality new. at least get quality used. spend the extra money up front and not regret it later... but lets face it tho these high performance budget cars are an aging, dying, breed. Eventually the well taken care of 1's will become classics and the rest will be recycled. nothing lasts forever. i personally can relate. Say you have a ton of financial responsibility you only make so much a week. you land that dsm you've always really REALLY wanted for a measley 1800 dollars. Great! now what? you really want to up grade it with that new turbo with all the supporting mods. BUT costs another 2500 to 3000. therein lies the problem. You got the car for what seems like a steal at 1800, now its another 3k to mod it to your liking. Its simple economics value vs cost. Resell isn't real high and parts cost a lot. The purists will stick too it and the budget minded will hot rod their ride with a lot of character. .... or will eventually give up... its just the way it is.. But for me. ive had mine for years and i love my DSM!
But. i agree, support your community whenever possible.

Pauleyman, very well said. There are now too many people buying crap eBay parts or rigging sh#t parts and then getting on here and whining why things don't work and then flaming people when they don't get the answer they want. Seems that the Honduh ricers are moving here.

Drop Top Road Trip said:

I just spotted 15 1G and 2G Eclipses on the Dallas C-list. Some were even GSXs.

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The lime green one with a body kit and the red one with a primered body kit don't count. Non turbo cars don't count as a dsm.

Sadly, when I read "cheap dsmers" I got kind of excited and was hoping it was going to be a Share Your Greatest Cheap Hack or Cheap DMSers Unite thread. Saddly disappointed to find othetwise. My personal goal with my Eclipse is to make it as fun as possible with as little outlay as possible.

its not even the ebay parts that are the problem. Its the hackjobbers who try and reinvent and re-engineer their cars with duct tape, shitty welding, and generally poor mechanic skills. My OCD can kick in hardcore. If I see a DSM with new rims and a shiny exhaust, but pealing and failing paint, I go bonkers.

I think this is an interesting topic that would be fun to discuss more. For example, I always thought it interesting that DSMs almost never have nice rims or paint jobs. Why? It's because DSMers have never modded the care enough or have it running long enough to have any money leftover for looks. Also, different platforms attract different personalities as we all know. Convertible corvette guy is not the same as 1G AWD no-downpipe guy. Corvette guy wants to buy a well-known car at the age of 45 and have other people do minor bolt-on work on it while he plays at the golf course or goes to the bar. DSM guy is in his 20 or early 30s, doesn't have the resources of corvette guy and values being as economical as possible. Neither guy is better than the other. DSMs are a cheap platform. Don't hate on a guy if he doesn't have the resources to get the built trans and the built engine with rywire harness and FP turbo system. Maybe we SHOULD be cheaper if you think about. "Hey honey, quit buying a new purse every year. Oh btw, I just spent $5000 on my toy car this year. Quit going out to eat for lunch. Oh btw, I spend $50 a weak on piddly gaskets and bolts for my toy car".

Good thread! This is very good reading. I gave up on amazon car parts after the second 23 dollar slim fan absolutely bbqd itself. It couldn't move enough air to blow away the results of Taco Tuesday.

Ok I'll say it, " Hi, I have a eBay turbo" that's the first step to recovery right? And yes I can not wait for the day when I can happily stuff that thing in a box, and bolt up something reliable, non exploding, and actually functional. But I didn't buy it, it came on the car. Surprisingly it hasnt self terminated, but I'm sure it will.

I have finally come to the point; I would rather have it parked then drive it not working 100%. Alot of the build journals, profile updates, really do help inspire the rest of us to do the same with our builds. My DSM is living in the garage until I can finally get some quality parts on it. I even look and my "greddy style" blow off valve and get depressed. I don't want that reputation anymore, I don't want to be afraid to post up something involving "cx racing". I don't even look on eBay anymore, I have found the classifieds to 10x more helpful.

I would like to thank all of our vendors for their hard work. I dealt with extremepsi for my whole build and they were top notch. I live in Az, and on multiple occasions have always gotten my parts to me exactly when I needed them. Pretty impressive since their shop is in Philly, and I manage to call 5 minutes before they close.

I came in here expecting this thread to be about lowballers like me who try to build things cheap using quality parts. I'd rather crap in my hand and clap than run a Chinese turbocharger, wastegate, BOV, cam gear, anything to do with fuel, gauges, or if it generally has moving parts.

Mello said:

I remember Defiance & always felt he was a every good mod.

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I am nearly 100% certain that him(Defiance) and BogusSvo, if they are not one and the same are absoluteness bogus and 100% pure internet knowledge. With no actual experience to base their phony knowledge on other than what has already been posted somewhere on the internet. 25,000 posts but never a build of his own, hmm. The stereotypical 300lb, living in his mom's basement, forum moderator.

I personally think it comes down to knowledge, laziness and the inability to think.

I understand the whole "it's not in my budget" thing, but I personally don't accept that as an excuse for anyone. Anything can be in your budget if you take your time and save for those quality parts. My car has sat for three months now due to buying an engagement ring, a house, and trying to piece together furniture so my future wife (she's a beautiful dsm gal btw )and I can live comfortably. I could've slapped on some cheap parts and been ragging on it for the past three months but I refuse to buy cheap immitation parts. I honestly don't care if it takes 3 more years to complete my build bc honestly whenever that engine cranks over and idles for the first time all of the frustrations and gloomy days wishing I was out cruising around are going to be forgotten. Our cars are a great budget platform as stated by many already in this thread so far, but there's is a difference between a budget build and a $hit bucket.

91stocker said:

I am nearly 100% certain that him(Defiance) and BogusSvo, if they are not one and the same are absoluteness bogus and 100% pure internet knowledge. With no actual experience to base their phony knowledge on other than what has already been posted somewhere on the internet. 25,000 posts but never a build of his own, hmm. The stereotypical 300lb, living in his mom's basement, forum moderator.

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Guess what, I've never had a car with more than a stock turbo, care to review my posts? You assume a great deal about people. I dont know them personally either but ive read enough to think they know whats what.

honda_burner said:

Back in the glory days of this forum, that would be taken down without prejudice. Nowadays, it seems everyone's gotten a little lax. I remember being warned multiple times for bad grammar and what not. Now it's just the norm.

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You rang?

cmehlxl said:

there's a reason ferrari owners own ferraris, corvette owners own corvettes, classic guys own classics, and dsm guys own dsms. dsms are budget cars. if we had 10k to dump into them at once, we probably would have just bought a new car in the first place.

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This is his exact point. You kids treat them like shit because of the purchase price. Try and keep up.

cmehlxl said:

i understand you're an elitist and all,

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I am a DSM elitist, which is why I no longer own one. Once all of the plastidipflushwheelsflatbilledhatchodes leave for other cars, I'd consider rescuing one, but I have zero tolerance for the community, mainly due to bullshit like this.

See you on the Genesis forums? There's so much Chinese replica swag you'd love over there...

Drop Top Road Trip said:

Bourgeois DSM snobbery? Over a platform that can be had just about any day of the week for an average of $1500? Really?

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And another one...
Is the message too cloudy, or is it hard to read with your head lodged in your ass?

91stocker said:

I am nearly 100% certain that him(Defiance) and BogusSvo, if they are not one and the same are absoluteness bogus and 100% pure internet knowledge. With no actual experience to base their phony knowledge on other than what has already been posted somewhere on the internet. 25,000 posts but never a build of his own, hmm. The stereotypical 300lb, living in his mom's basement, forum moderator.

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5 years later, still waiting for you to do anything but bi***.

If you ever go to the Shootout you'll see a lot of DSM owners who take a great deal of pride in their builds - they put effort and money into more than just the go-fast part of the build. Unfortunately, that seems to be a small percentage of the DSM community these days. Not a lot of pride is taken in the majority of DSM builds anymore. Cheap, knock-off parts are used, short cuts are taken, maintenance is neglected, and very little effort is put into most of the details outside of making horsepower, and even then, short cuts are taken. Most DSMs out there are in need of a restoration, and nobody buying a DSM these days is going to do that. Whether it's due to lack of funds or just lack of caring, or a combination of both.

DSMs are widely seen by other communities as beaters, held together by duct tape and zip ties, bought by kids who couldn't afford other cars so they bought one of these and immediately turned up the boost. They didn't realize the amount of money, work, and research that was really going to be required to do a DSM build right. You might see a nice one every once in a while, and maybe one that is fast. Rarely do you see one that is fast AND nice. That didn't used to be the case.

It's sad. I've always felt these were special cars. And they are not treated as such. I try like hell to get the younger crowd to understand the way it works, but it falls on deaf ears. If you don't spend money with the vendors who cater to this community they'll stop catering to this community and the parts availability will dwindle and eventually disappear. Nobody is going to make parts for a market where only 50 people will actually spend money to buy those parts. I've been told from a few vendors lately that there is just no sense in focusing on this platform anymore. And though I always knew that was inevitable, it still bothers me to see some of the best known DSM specialty shops leave - guys who started businesses specifically to cater to this car.

Oh well. Nothing lasts forever.

Luda,

It's not that you have fallen on deaf ears, (well maybe), it's just our culture these days. Nothing is sacred anymore. Take a look around in other worlds as well. I play with dirtbikes and snowmobiles too, and it's just as bad. You can't buy a few year old sled anymore cause there all parted out.

People of today don't have patience, or even a basic understanding of how things work. I blame several things,

1. Forums, seem to give people artificial knowledge/skills. So they attempt things they are not ready to do, and they normally wouldn't do. Then there's all the wrong info that's spread. There's an old saying, doers never talk talkers never do. the guys that actually know something rarely spread any info, so the internet is full of armchair tuners. Then there's the whole hypethread b/s People start building shit just to gain some forum fame, only to give up and sell shit for pennies on the dollar years later.

2. Stupid arbitrary records. tell me all this race to be the fastest stock block with xx turbo purple floormatts and whatever else is good for anything but fake self importance.

3. I largely blame all the shops. Pushing parts on people with no care for if they actually work, no care for the customers actual financial abilities...No care for the best mod for the $$.


Like I said before though, does it even matter? Those who care take care of the car, those who don't don't.

I think we should all be thankful that a majority of the " plastidipperstanced" stereotypes generally gravitate towards the 240sx scene now. Plastic dip goes perfect with that big see through donger of a shift knob! And the 4mm of " stretched rubber" on those wheels.

As sad as things do look for these cars, it would never be a reason for me to sell mine. I don't consider mine a " poor man's evo". I actually hate when people say that. I don't even relate a DSM to a evo. Completely different platform. I do agree with the general consensus that if you don't have the money to take care of the maintenance issues and problems all of these older cars are going to have, you should look into something else

I know that this isn't a DSM-only theme. It's just sad to watch it play out. Does it make sense to spend 8-10 times the value of the car on restoration and upgrades when you'll never get half of it back? Obviously not. It's a terrible investment. People don't build these cars (or 95% of the cars out there) because they're good investments. They do it because they love the platform. You have to start the build knowing that you'll never be able to justify it. It's irrational. It's passion. It's what we all do because we love cars.

Managing a budget is hard to do for some. Especially in this day and age where EVERYTHING is communicated through social media. Most people want to be the next person to post something cool and can't wait to actually get something good.

Loyalty is gone too. I'm on my third DSM and I love it. I can afford to buy an Evo, but the point to having a "racecar" is to mod it. Rather put quality work into a DSM than crap into an Evo.

The Evo is the stock daily anyway.


Maybe its good to just race and keep quiet. The car meets these days are full of hella camber and plastidip anyway.

LandoAWD said:

5 years later, still waiting for you to do anything but bi***.

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Same could be said for you in 13 years mr toyobaru. I've built and sold some of the cleanest 1g's i've ever seen in person. Except for maybe Dr turbo's car, which you guys banned from the site, go figure. All while putting my wife and myself through college, paying the house off by age 27, and spoiling my 2 kids rotten with playscapes, dirtbikes, vacations/disney, etc etc.

Not to mention you can run through my post history and see 99% of my posts are helping new members with real actual advice based on personal experience, not some phony internet knowledge. I've even gave my personal cell number out to quite a few members on here who needed a lot of help. A thousand posts here helping others, hundreds of texts and phone calls. I drove two hours to help a guy i never met put a clutch in his 2g, same for another guy with a fuel pump, etc etc etc.

Not patting myself on the back, but you need to get your $hit straight.

LandoAWD said:

You rang?

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YES YOU!!! we need you back lando... your crude sense of humor is missed.