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2G Fp 68hta or mhi evo 3 16g rebuilt

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bmw335ikt

Proven Member
228
14
Sep 23, 2015
Crown Point, Indiana
I'm about to pull the trigger just want to see what's the better option
Brand new fp 68hta
Or
Mhi evo 3 16g rebuilt

Thanks
 
I was considering the 68HTA for the other blue car... until I started reading about the lag with it. I'll just stick the evo3 from the other blue car on it. I don't mind the lag, as I have a FP Green XL on the other blue car now. Honestly, I thought the 68 would spool a bit quicker than the Green, but from seeing what people have posted about it, they are about the same!

In terms of what you can do with the 16g... it can be somewhat underestimated. With my car, I had it dyno (mustang) tuned on race gas and it made 343 AWHP. This was good enough for trap speeds of 117mph and 11's in the quarter (28psi). On 93, I never had it dynoed; just took the boost out of it. Car still ran low 12's @110 around 18psi on that little guy. I am a huge fan of the 16g. It's an excellent street turbo; espically if you are looking for quick spool up. I did have mine paired with FP2 272/272 cams.
 
What it boils down to is your supporting mods! If you haven't upgraded yet the 68 route of course will cost more cash and net more power, but saying a 16g produces 250 hp is not accurate information unless you are talking about bolting it on with no mods and no tune. That goal can be reached on a T25 with supporting mods and just AFR's changed to 11.0. A E3 16g with the supporting mods will net 350+ with a good tune on 93, and on E85 you could see 400+!
There are a few people netting 400+ on 93.

Many EIII 16g can run 10's... It's all about the tune and mods!

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=16g+dsm+10+second over 3500 results!

A 14b or 16g is a great way to start out, learn how to tune, how things work, while doing it fairly safe by having the appropriate supporting mods.

Don't forget that with any power above factory level stuff breaks more!
Your stock clutch will fail, quickly, you will need a Wideband, FPR, injectors, fuel pump, tunning software, BOV, FMIC, hard piping, fix stupid boost leaks IE throttle shaft, injector seals, modify or buy new down pipe, water lines, oil lines, Wires, Plugs, OEM bolts, gaskets, ect... you are talking thousands of dollars in background costs to make that turbo upgrade happen.



Look at a upgrade as a level or stage.

Once you complete that stage you move onto the next level.

This is good reading material http://www.buschurracing.com/upgrade-sequence/dsm-stage0/dsm-stage1/

:2cents:
 
Many EIII 16g can run 10's... It's all about the tune and mods!

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=16g dsm 10 second over 3500 results!
Only about 5 or 7 of which are actual Evo III's running 10-second passes. To make any 16G go 10's it takes an exceptional build, a great tune, good fuel, and an amazing driver...you're making it seem like anyone can bolt a 16G on their car and drive down the track to a 10-second pass which is quite misleading. If that were the case the 68HTA, Green, Red, Black, 3052, and 3582 would never have been created.

Realistic Evo III 16G horsepower on pump gas is 320-340whp at 22-25psi which will get a DSM into the 12's...perhaps quicker depending on the driver. Realistic 68HTA pump gas horsepower is 360-380 at 22-25psi; anyone making over 400 on either turbo either has Ethanol/race fuel in the tank or is using meth injection with an intercooler the size of Rhode Island.
 
Yea I was looking at the fp but a buddy told me at the evo 3 is 7cm housing and would match with the manifold while the fp is a 8cm. Idk what kind of difference that makes

I can't even believe this is a thing anymore... I feel like it's been harped on since I joined in 02 LOL.
 
I can't even believe this is a thing anymore... I feel like it's been harped on since I joined in 02 LOL.
ROFL you and I must've read that at the exact same time.

What I know is where can I get my hands on one of these 8cm manifolds? :p
 
I agree its pretty difficult to get a 16g in the high tens. its actually pretty tuff to get on in the 11s. me personally wouldnt run a 16g just because there are slightly better turbos out there that dont fall flat after 6500rpm. 17c, 18g, 19c, 20g, 68hta, and EF1 are far more fun to drive and not that much more money. I will warn again the on sale 68hta is gonna be a let down in the spool department. I probably would actually choose the 16g had to choose between the two. . I am the guy that built the first twin scroll 20g. I value fast spool greater than most.
 
...but saying a 16g produces 250 hp is not accurate information unless you are talking about bolting it on with no mods and no tune.
I PERSONALLY had every supporting mod on my 2g - FP2 cams, ECMLink, injectors, pump, 3" exhaust, Evo III IM, FMIC - and had Road Race Engineering professionally tune it and put down 260awhp / 280tq. Stock 7-bolt s16 RRE Tooned

...That goal (referring to 250hp) can be reached on a T25 with supporting mods and just AFR's changed to 11.0.
Now I know you're blowing smoke.

Eric (turbosax2) dyno'd his 2g running a t25 with full bolt-on's tuned on E85 (not pump gas) and didn't even put that number (250hp) down. TurboSax2 t25 E85 Dyno
 
Here's an overlay comparing my own dyno results showing the spool time and power differences in both these turbo's, everything else being as equal as it can be.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 
I'm going to try a e3 16g in a 6cm housing with a large external. Try the compound idea out with it, in a sense. Vent the excess gas around the turbine, but keep a small housing to keep the spool.

I hope it works.

If not, back to the old 7cm.

This is on a 2g with a stock converter.
 
the large gate thing doesnt work. the gate opening is always controlled by the boost signal. you actually need twin gates to bleed off the excess back pressure. gate one controls boost. the second controls back pressure. I ran a 20g once in a 6cm housing. but only ran it to 19psi. it worked great at that psi. definitely spooled faster than 7cm.
 
but that is a 5h turbine in a 7cm housing? the new 68s are 9 blade TF06 in an 8cm.

dont know if we are supposed to believe 68 is worth 90hp over the 16g. something is off there.
I did go back through my build thread quick, I didn't have the FP2 cams when I dyno'd the 16g but did install them prior to dyno'ing the car with the HTA68 at low boost on 91 which would account for the 90hp increase but would also explain the laggy(er) spool up. Even so, this about as close of a comparison we're going to get around here with these two turbo's and even with the entire DSM community snagging these TF06/8cm HTA68's there's absolutely no data out there.


Here's a printout showing the logged MAP sensor readings on the low boost 350hp run, just over 20psi and it tapered off to 18psi by redline, and the 440hp run @ 28psi tapering to 25. Comparing the s16g to the HTA68 (considering I installed FP2 cams in between dyno's) isn't an exact idea of what power/spool times would be overlaying the charts but it's still a pretty damn good comparison given the info out there.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.



With my setup I'd guess the TF06/8cm HTA68 would hit 21psi @ 4250'ish and guessing 30psi @ ~4500 which is HX35/8cm territory and it flows the same in the bolt-on housing ~51lbs/m but in stock appearing form. If I were looking to upgrade turbo's and get the best bang for my buck in horsepower the HTA68 (even with the different TW) is the best option over a rebuilt 16g, which is what we're actually discussing.
 
No you can just spools a little slower than the 16g, but has more top end power.

I hold 22psi to redline on my billet 16g on e85 but the fp 68 hta can hold more.

Notice any big differences with that billet wheel? Thought about switching mine out but didn't feel I would net any gains for the hassle.


Still have a couple weeks until my dyno tune. Curious to see what I can pull out of my evo3 on e85
 
Notice any big differences with that billet wheel? Thought about switching mine out but didn't feel I would net any gains for the hassle.
Still have a couple weeks until my dyno tune. Curious to see what I can pull out of my evo3 on e85

I don't have any comparisons between the billet vs cast wheel. But from what I read it really doesn't add any gains unless it's angled or degreed different from the stock cast design.
 
I don't have any comparisons between the billet vs cast wheel. But from what I read it really doesn't add any gains unless it's angled or degreed different from the stock cast design.

Yeah, I've seen a couple "extended tip" 16g wheels but couldn't find any real info or proven results. All I really saw is that it may increase spool slightly. Which I'm not too worried about with the 16g.
 
gofer, there are a dozen good back to back 68 only swaps on the evolutionm forums. countless have made 400whp e85 on the 16g. the hta 68 (called 71hta/68hta/white for evo 8/9 but exact same wheel size) nets 450whp e85. for pump gas swaps it nets 25whp. the original non inflated flow rates given by FP also best support the flow differences. 42lb for evo 16g and 47lbs for 68hta.
 
gofer, there are a dozen good back to back 68 only swaps on the evolutionm forums. countless have made 400whp e85 on the 16g. the hta 68 (called 71hta/68hta/white for evo 8/9 but exact same wheel size) nets 450whp e85. for pump gas swaps it nets 25whp. the original non inflated flow rates given by FP also best support the flow differences. 42lb for evo 16g and 47lbs for 68hta.
Earlier you were trying to give me a hard time comparing an older td05h/7cm HTA68 to the redesigned tf06/8cm HTA68, now you're including the "countless" 400whp E85 16g builds from EvoM?
Even so, this about as close of a comparison we're going to get around here with these two turbo's and even with the entire DSM community snagging these TF06/8cm HTA68's there's absolutely no data out there.
This post is about swapping from a td05/7cm 16g to a HTA68 on a
DSM, not a td05hr in a 9.8cm/10.5cm hotside on a completely different platform. I'm not going to try and stand toe to toe with you getting into a turbo discussion because you've probably forgotten more about turbo specs than I'll ever know however, bringing up spool/power expectations from what an Evo can do on the stock Evo VIII/IX 16g's is completely irrelevant here.

...if you can find those countless "400whp e85 on the 16g" threads from EvoM comparing the turbo's in question, i.e., Evo III 16g (td05h) vs HTA68 on a DSM please post them since it would help answer the OP's question and add some value to this discussion.
 
I'm going to try a e3 16g in a 6cm housing with a large external. Try the compound idea out with it, in a sense. Vent the excess gas around the turbine, but keep a small housing to keep the spool.

I hope it works.
You're probably going to run into surge issues at some point in your powerband. A 16G was never designed to have a 6cm2 housing...especially one being used in a performance situation. Perhaps with a turbine upgrade, but then you're shooting yourself in the foot if you're going for spool. I don't really recommend them for any 16G outside of maybe a Small 16G being used at 18psi or below on a daily driver.

Wastegate size won't matter unless you're running a low boost level as the wastegate's sole function on a single is to control boost and has no real effect on turbine drive pressure (which is the housing a/r's job). If your idea worked, then instead of quick-spool valves or fancy VGT turbos which regulate drive pressure directly, all modern diesel trucks would just come with tiny a/r turbine housings and giant wastegates instead as I'm sure it's a cheaper and more-reliable option with less moving parts.
 
OP, Get the 68 so I can come up to crown point, and show you that you should have gone the E3 16g route. :)


For the $$$ Rebuilt E316g 300-400$ vs a 68HTA 1000$ you could score yourself a clutch, some injectors, fuel pump, many things you will find yourself buying, just to upgrade the turbo to a 16g. Heck you could spend that extra money on meth injection and a Intercooler the size of Rhode Island and have a real party!

By the time you Max the 16g out with mods, tune, and need more power, a 68 won't even be on the list.

I see so much posting of a Small 16g, it's sickening... Why even bother reading those posts since they don't relate to OP's question and should be deleted.

Do your own research OP and then you will see more reasonable opinions.

If you want to spend 1000+$ on a turbo, get a PT 6262. Don't waste it on a 68.
 
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