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Engine Rebuild Failure, Any Suggestions?

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Devilsfutbol17

15+ Year Contributor
407
47
Jul 27, 2007
Bellingham, Washington
In my 1G I had my block honed, measured bore, and hot tanked. Then I had my crank polished, cleaned, and mic'ed. The machinist said they were both within spec, no boring or turning was necessary for just a stock rebuild.

I ordered standard size bearings and measured everything with plastigauge. Below are the pictures of the plastigauge for the rods. I assembled everything with assembly lube and primed the engine until oil was coming out of the ports in the head.

The car started up great. Vitals looked fantastic via pocketlogger. Breaking the motor in motoman style at mile 11 I spun a rod bearing in cylinder #2 and the motor completely seized and rolled to a stop.

Second round, I've gotten a different crank and am about to repeat the process with my own bore gauge, micrometer, and 6 pieces of plastigauge around each bearing. Does anyone have any ideas what might have happened or what I might have done wrong? I'd rather not repeat the failure. On a side note, I put new bearings in my galant 1500 miles ago and haven't had this issue.

Thanks.
 

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Throw the plasti-gauge away. That isn't how things are measured. If you want to measure oil clearances set your bore gauge for what each journal measures as you measure the individual bore (with bearings in of course).

There are a lot of different sources that would have contributed to the failure. One no-brainer would be the rods big end needed to be resized. .00149" seems to be tight for the one picture you posted (.038 mm). This is what is tough if the ENTIRE engine wasn't gone over, measured and assembled by a shop. Too many variables.
 
Thanks for the repys. I'm going to give it another go. FSM says the standard clearance is 0.02-0.05mm. So I figured .038mm was fine. From what I measured, I'm either in spec or loose, but still not above the service limit of .1mm.

One thing I didn't measure was the side to side clearance on the rods. If you look at the picture of the crank you can see the heat marks from the bearing and rod heating up and rubbing on the crank. The rod had damage on the inside where the bearing is and on the sides.
 
Forget that "motoman" method, another one bites the dust to that idiot it looks like, how many more engines are going to be ruined because of that stupid site? break your engine in right and learn some patience.
 
Forget that "motoman" method, another one bites the dust to that idiot it looks like, how many more engines are going to be ruined because of that stupid site? break your engine in right and learn some patience.

First motor I broke in using Motoman Method took 3yrs of me pounding on it before I eventually cracked a wrist pin. Ross thin walled pins. The car trapped 130.75 after driving 70mi to and 70mi from the track. I also put 100mi+ per weekend on the motor cruising and looking for races.

My current motor I broke in using the Motoman Method. Again, 30-35psi on a 60lb/min turbo beating the snot out of it from initial start up. Rings were sealed in 10mi, no smoke. Still no issues with this motor.

I will use the motoman method on every motor I build.
 
Forget that "motoman" method, another one bites the dust to that idiot it looks like, how many more engines are going to be ruined because of that stupid site? break your engine in right and learn some patience.
Spinning a bearing has nothing to do with the breakin method. Bearing, and journal surfaces need no breakin.

As bogus said, the crank was probably full of trash. The galley plug balls should be removed when the crank is cleaned. There could also have been a machining issue with the rods, or crank.
 
Thanks for the repys. I'm going to give it another go. FSM says the standard clearance is 0.02-0.05mm. So I figured .038mm was fine. From what I measured, I'm either in spec or loose, but still not above the service limit of .1mm.

One thing I didn't measure was the side to side clearance on the rods. If you look at the picture of the crank you can see the heat marks from the bearing and rod heating up and rubbing on the crank. The rod had damage on the inside where the bearing is and on the sides.

0.02-0.05mm is roughly 0.0007-0.0019". .0019" seems a hell of a lot better to me as an oil clearance than .0007" (7 tenths). If you have ever seen a .001" feeler gauge you would see how hard it would be for oil to get through that. Then add the possible junk to the mix; no bueno. Let's not forget the "measurement" you took was on cold and/or room temperature parts. I would be confident in saying that the too tight of oil clearance was your issue.

That would be a side clearance issue which one wouldn't think you would have, but without new or reconditioned rods it is very likely.

Just get a set of aftermarket or even factory rods then have them reconditioned. Also make sure to have the new crank cleaned properly. I would suggest having the entire engine cleaned and reassembled by a professional. If you don't want to do that, at the very least everything should be disassembled, cleaned and measured by a machinist before you decide to assemble it.

I hope this has helped a little bit.

As bogus said, the crank was probably full of trash. The galley plug balls should be removed when the crank is cleaned. There could also have been a machining issue with the rods, or crank.

True on the junk inside of the crank. However I see no mention on the rods being measured or re-sized in the original post. The one thing the original post did show us though was that at least one of the rods "measured" (by means of Plasti-Junk), on the tight side. Big issue when things warm up and expand.
 
Did you replace the oil cooler? If not, that will contribute to trashing an engine in no time as well. Trying to clean them is pointless. I would throw the one you have now in the trash and run an external setup. Do not reuse the one you have now. It is contaminated with metal bits.
 
First motor I broke in using Motoman Method took 3yrs of me pounding on it before I eventually cracked a wrist pin. Ross thin walled pins. The car trapped 130.75 after driving 70mi to and 70mi from the track. I also put 100mi+ per weekend on the motor cruising and looking for races.

My current motor I broke in using the Motoman Method. Again, 30-35psi on a 60lb/min turbo beating the snot out of it from initial start up. Rings were sealed in 10mi, no smoke. Still no issues with this motor.

I will use the motoman method on every motor I build.


I agree with this. If something goes during the break in it was going to go when you opened it up later anyway.
 
It may just be a preventative maintenance thing but when was the last time your torque wrench was calibrated? Depending on the brand/ type/ use frequency, it could need to be re-calibrated. Probably not the issue but just a suggestion.
 
Crank was not cleaned properly, you washed trash into the bearings at start up.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/pull-your-balls-to-properly-clean-your-crank.472402/#post-153357088

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-plug-crank-oil-galleys-after-ball-removal.473543/


The Big ends of the con rod need to be checked for size and round. Good chance the spun bearing put the housing bore out of spec.


Nothing really wrong with breaking in the Motorman method

On the subject of the crank ball cleaning, I just had our crank cut and noticed they did this grinding around those balls and looks like new ones installed. This was not done last time the crank was polished and balanced, obviously this time someone knew something the other shop did not.

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So thats a plus, it was only $110 for the cut, clean and spec too.
 
Resize the rods this time their can be small imperfections you can't see with your eyes and don't mismatch the caps.
 
Thank you all for the responses.

I didn't know about removing the bearings. I don't have a TIG welder and nobody in town can balance cranks. I'm going to ask my machinist if he can remove the balls and clean it. I'll also ask him about reconditioning the rods.

I did disassembly everything and have been spraying WD-40 and compressed air through everything. I planned to take apart the water cooled oil filter and clean it in my parts cleaner tub, but I think I have an extra one so I'll use it.

I don't think I mixed up the rods caps, but it could have happened. I should have marked them just for insurance but I didn't.

I have never calibrated my torque wrench, but it is a harbor freight special. I have an old school torque wrench with a needle that I occasionally check it against.

It sounds like I should try to run my clearances a little on the high range. I can check the clearance and maybe have the crank polished down til I'm at the .05mm range.

Thanks again for all your help guys.
 
You need a stronger solvent than WD40. I do a 3 step clean on my blocks. Solvent wash (kerosene/mineral spirits/gas/stoddard solvent), then a soap and water wash, then brake clean though the galleys.

Throw away your old oil cooler. 0% chance of getting it completely clean.
 
What Bastarddsm said. If you're having machine work done your parts should get a ride in a caustic (cast iron only) and a normal jet washer (for aluminum). When you get them back grab a gallon jug of Simple Green. Buy some engine cleaning brushed from Eastwood and wherever you can find one for the cylinders. Make the Simple Green a little heave with water. Then dip the brushes in the solution and go to town. Start with the mains (torqued down), then oil galley, balance shaft holes then get the cylinders. A trick for the cylinders is to cut the looped end off of the brush and stick it into an electric drill. It works great.

Then use whatever size brush that will fit in the head bolt holes and coolant passages. Pretty much hit every hole. Always dipping the brushes in the solution. Then spray the block off with water, turn it over to do the same and use compressed air to blow it off. AS SOON as you are done doing such spray the block with liberal amounts of WD-40 to hinder flash rust. Then take your main caps off and do the oil holes, main bolt holes and the main oil galley again. If you are anal like I am you will do these steps about three separate times. Just don't skimp on the WD when you are done getting the water off.

I usually buy a case or two of the CRC NAPA branded "brake kleen". Its in a red can and a case is usually only $30 some off dollars. I usually just go to town on the block with as many cans as I feel the need before washing and then after just because. Don't do this on a treated floor or any sort however. Believe me it was take the coating off of the floor.

Hope this helps.
 
The entire motor was spotless prior to bearing spinning, so none of the metal shaving or anything should be caked on. I had the head looking brand new in the parts cleaner, and then the block was hot tanked and painted.

I spun the bearing, then pulled the engine the following weekend and cleaned it. I figured everything just needs to be flushed out, so that's why I went with the WD-40. I didn't pull my valve seals off and didn't want to ruin them with brake cleaner or any harsh solvent.
 
Thank you all for the responses.

I didn't know about removing the bearings. I don't have a TIG welder and nobody in town can balance cranks. I'm going to ask my machinist if he can remove the balls and clean it. I'll also ask him about reconditioning the rods.

I did disassembly everything and have been spraying WD-40 and compressed air through everything. I planned to take apart the water cooled oil filter and clean it in my parts cleaner tub, but I think I have an extra one so I'll use it.

I don't think I mixed up the rods caps, but it could have happened. I should have marked them just for insurance but I didn't.

I have never calibrated my torque wrench, but it is a harbor freight special. I have an old school torque wrench with a needle that I occasionally check it against.

It sounds like I should try to run my clearances a little on the high range. I can check the clearance and maybe have the crank polished down til I'm at the .05mm range.

Thanks again for all your help guys.
Your efforts are good but let me say this you are going to have to fill the oil pan with wd 40 and put a drill on your oil pump without the timing belt and spin the system just like if the engine was running. you will have to remove the oil pan after this has been done and clean the debris out repeat this process about two or three times. After you get the engine together and running after about 20 miles without getting on it you will have to drop the oil pan and change the bearings, clean the oil pan and you should be ready to go. Ask me how I know if it works, been there and done that with sucess. Lot of work but its more work to replace an engine so its a win win in my book.
 
That sounds like a good plan keltalon. Pulling the crank to replace the main bearings with the engine in the car is going to be fun though. I'd want to at least plastigauge it too before I put new bearings in.
 
That sounds like a good plan keltalon. Pulling the crank to replace the main bearings with the engine in the car is going to be fun though. I'd want to at least plastigauge it too before I put new bearings in.
You don't have to take out the crank to replace those bearings.
 
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