timing belt confusion...

Derek Goodreau · Jul 7, 2015

this is becoming such a PITA! i have a few questions that are confusing me, heres the VFAQ im following
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

1st confusion...
#24. Positioning the balance shaft, it says "Remove the balance shaft plug on the rear side of the cylinder block and insert a Phillips screwdriver {shank diameter 8 mm (.32 in.)} through the hole."
i cant find this plug.

also it says an easier way to do that, "Simply rotate the mark on the oil pump sprocket until it is pointing straight up, and let it go. If the sprocket rotates towards (counterclockwise) the timing mark on the engine, the oil pump sprocket is aligned correctly."
I rotate the sprocket like it says and it doesnt rotate clockwise or counterclockwise when i let it go, it just stays in place...this is confusing the hell out of me.

2nd confusion...
crankshaft TDC mark, with the pulley off i dont see a mark for top dead center.
this image shows this http://www.vfaq.com/proj-pics/Tbelt/96-012.gif
but this image shows this http://www.vfaq.com/proj-pics/Tbelt/fig17.gif

SOMEONE PLEASE get back to me!

darknezz7 · Jul 7, 2015

to find TDC I always stick a long screw driver in #1 spark plug hole, plug out ofc, you can see when it goes up and the piston bottoms out.

If you would have set your engine to TDC in the first place then not fiddled with anything you would not be having this problem.

with balance shaft belt off (please tell me you are replacing this too) you should be able to move the oil pump gear around and feel counter weight, at soume point it will want to roll ccw, there 1 out of 3 positions it can be in and only the one will make it roll, you might have to give it a little nudge even. It just takes some feel.

2gmitsueclipse · Jul 7, 2015

These tutorials should address both of your concerns. Please do not rely on just this, but compare with the walk-through on VFAQ and an FSM/Chiltons/Haynes.

Part 1:

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Part 2:

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GRAVEDIGGER · Jul 7, 2015

The plug you're looking for is right on the back side of the block, next to the flat spot where the engine numbers are stamped. It is a bolt and not really a plug. I think it's 14mm...

The oil pump... watch this

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And for the crankshaft mark it is not really on the toothed pulley but behind it on the shoulder of the pulley so to speak. You can see it pretty well in this picture, just look around the shiny outside part and you will see a notch where you line it up with the mark.

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Derek Goodreau · Jul 7, 2015

the oil pump gear does not spin by hand at all and has not feel of counterbalance i literally have to use a ratchet on it to turn it, and its stiff.

and my engine was set to TDC but because this is my first time doing a timing belt im reading a VFAQ, and the pictures are showing the crank gear in a different picture than mine, i want to see a mark and not just guess by using a screwdriver

Derek Goodreau · Jul 7, 2015

GRAVEDIGGER said:
The plug you're looking for is right on the back side next to the flat spot where the engine numbers are stamped. It is a bolt and not really a plug. I think it's 14mm...

The oil pump... watch this www.youtube.com/watch?v=nflPydb2ZRY

And for the crankshaft mark it is not really on the toothed pulley but behind it on the shoulder of the pulley so to speak. You can see it pretty well in this picture, just look around the shiny outside part and you will see a notch where you line it up with the mark.
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thanks for the pic, now i understand that part, i saw that notch on that plate but wasnt sure where it aligned. thanks

GRAVEDIGGER · Jul 7, 2015

Derek Goodreau said:
the oil pump gear does not spin by hand at all and has not feel of counterbalance i literally have to use a ratchet on it to turn it, and its stiff.

Balance shaft bearings are toast then.

Time to just delete them and just do a balance shaft eliminator kit IMHO.

GRAVEDIGGER · Jul 7, 2015

Could be a seized up oil pump as well...

Derek Goodreau · Jul 7, 2015

FML..... i have no way of pulling my engine to do these things...

Derek Goodreau · Jul 7, 2015

GRAVEDIGGER said:
Could be a seized up oil pump as well...

could this and the balance shaft eliminator be done with engine in?

darknezz7 · Jul 7, 2015

Derek Goodreau said:
the oil pump gear does not spin by hand at all and has not feel of counterbalance i literally have to use a ratchet on it to turn it, and its stiff.

and my engine was set to TDC but because this is my first time doing a timing belt im reading a VFAQ, and the pictures are showing the crank gear in a different picture than mine, i want to see a mark and not just guess by using a screwdriver

Using a screwdriver to see true TDC is much more accurate the the marks...

You have something very wrong then if you cannot easily move the oil pump gear by hand. remove oil filter housing and oil pump and see what is going on. Balance shaft elim and new oil pump I'd say,

Yes it can be done with engine in car. Not fun though.

ONLY get oem balance shaft elim kit parts
$57 at stm or $50 on ebay, yes on ebay and still oem parts.

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Derek Goodreau · Jul 7, 2015

FML, this car has been a nightmare since i got it.

darknezz7 · Jul 7, 2015

Cars tend to do that. Especially since you bought it modded, who knows what kind of parts are in there, quality of work done, or if anythings even been replaced. Could be a $90 ebay oil pump in there, how would you know, could already have a cheap balance elim that siezed.

Derek Goodreau · Jul 7, 2015

darknezz7 said:
Cars tend to do that. Especially since you bought it modded, who knows what kind of parts are in there, quality of work done, or if anythings even been replaced. Could be a $90 ebay oil pump in there, how would you know, could already have a cheap balance elim that siezed.

yeah i know it, any suggestions on where to buy the parts for the balance shaft eliminator kit?

BogusSVO · Jul 7, 2015

you can do an "in car" BSE

All you need is the stubby shaft.

The front BS will be left in place, no bearing flip. Leave the belt off

Drop the oil pan, and pull the front case.

darknezz7 · Jul 7, 2015

This one on ebay would be fine $50

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notice the difference from this one for $12
DO NOT GET THIS KIND

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or like a said a vendor like stm for $57

Here is a good detailed guide
http://www.4g63turbo.com/tech/eclipse-balance-shaft-removal.html

Derek Goodreau · Jul 7, 2015

BogusSVO said:
you can do an "in car" BSE

All you need is the stubby shaft.

The front BS will be left in place, no bearing flip. Leave the belt off

Drop the oil pan, and pull the front case.

ok thanks bogus, what do you mean by stubby shaft? are there certain ones to buy?

darknezz7 · Jul 7, 2015

please read what I posted LOL

Galipso · Jul 7, 2015

Derek Goodreau said:
FML, this car has been a nightmare since i got it.

Let's just say it takes a lot of loyalty, dedication and knowledge to own a DSM

Derek Goodreau · Jul 7, 2015

darknezz7 said:
please read what I posted

just saw that, thanks for info guys.

BogusSVO · Jul 7, 2015

Keep in mind you can just get the stubby shaft about $15 IIRC

For the in car BSE, you will not need the rest of the above posted kit

SrKegler · Jul 7, 2015

Can't really do a complete elimination with the engine in the car. Simplest solution is to remove the front BS belt and leave the shaft in place. Several of our vendors sell just the stubby shaft. Lot cheaper than buying the kit.

You also won't have to go the problem of high oil pressure caused when blocking off those two oil holes.

Galipso · Jul 7, 2015

OEM Mitsubishi part #s:

Rear Balance Shaft Bearing - MD040597
Front Balance Shaft Bearing - MD103722
Balance Shaft Cap - MD092785
Balance Shaft Stub - MD098626

BogusSVO · Jul 7, 2015

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/bse-a-look-at-stubby-shafts.468879/

You may want to look that link over too...

Derek Goodreau · Jul 7, 2015

BogusSVO said:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/bse-a-look-at-stubby-shafts.468879/

You may want to look that link over too...

ok ill check it out.

Galipso said:
OEM Mitsubishi part #s:

Rear Balance Shaft Bearing - MD040597
Front Balance Shaft Bearing - MD103722
Balance Shaft Cap - MD092785
Balance Shaft Stub - MD098626

Thanks.

BogusSVO said:
Keep in mind you can just get the stubby shaft about $15 IIRC

For the in car BSE, you will not need the rest of the above posted kit

thats what i will get then.

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