94allwheeldsm said:

This is about the crap casting quality of FP's compressor covers, not oiling issues, compressor wheel contact, thrust bearings etc...Its been known FP is Chinese parts....

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That is was I thought, paying for american parts... getting $§%$ from china.

Anybody know if a taiwan compressor cover for a 20g wheel will fit the green? I have a 20g "stock appearing" compressor cover and it wouldn't have enough clearance to use on the fp green. (I don't know why, according to the specs: the fp green wheel isn't bigger than a 20g wheel).

snooopy365 said:

Hey guys,
I recently brought an new FP Green turbo (directly from FP).

My old turbo died while making strange sounds. After installing the new FP green and free revving the car it started to do very similar sounds than my old turbo (a whining noice without building boost).

I did take the turbo apart because I was worried.
Yeah might be "the wrong way" but I'm living in Germany so sending it back to get it checked was not something I wanted to do.

While taking it apart I spotted that the compressor cover was poorly made. Even worse than any taiwan/china turbo part I ordered in my whole life.
I contacted FP with that matter several times and all they offered was a "free compressor housing" but shippingcost would be 50:50.
I told them that it isn't my fault that the housing is bad so why should I pay shipping for that? Also the "void" warranty because of the dissembled turbo does have nothing to do with the way this housing was just poorly made.

After getting nowhere with fp I decided to just check the turbo and install the bad cover.
So time passed by and I finally did install it again yesterday.
While doing it I saw that the whole cover was full of aluminium flakes??? no not from running the turbo... because some monkey made this housing in the first place.
Also while installing the Turbo the first time I snapped a bolt and yesterday I figured out why. The thread on the exhause housing isn't going all the way, so you can not use long bolts, they will reach into the unthreaded area and than: SNAP...

Did anybody have similar problems? I'm quite pissed for paying 1.5grand for no service at all and the worst quality I've ever seen.

Just to compare it to another turbo shop (in taiwan). I ordered parts to rebuild my old turbo in taiwan, they did send in 4days, the thread on the turbine shaft wasn't very good (still better than the FP one....). I told them they did send a new shaft within 4 days and I still have the "bad one" laying around because I'm to lazy to return... ().

Sorry for the long text.

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Snooopy,

So that we're all on the same page let's look at the blemish he's talking about. Here is the exact picture he sent us.



While it's hard to tell he's actually trying to take a pictures of the surface of the inside of the cover where the air exits the compressor cover. This is marginally grainier than what we like but will absolutely make a bit of difference on performance. As a gesture and because it isn't our normal product we offered him a compromise of a replacement compressor cover. Here's the kicker, the shipping was because he wanted a rebuild kit as well. He was quoted a rebuild kit, free compressor cover, and 50% on shipping. The next time I heard anything about it is this thread that someone linked me to.

So I fear their may have been some wires crossed or some e-mails missed because the shipping was quoted when he was wanting to purchase a rebuild kit on top of the compressor cover.

As for us voiding his warranty, yes absolutely and there isn't a manufacturer on the planet that would honor a warranty after the consumer took the unit apart before EVER reaching out to support. If you think that's unreasonable then I don't know what to tell you.

As for metal shaving in the cover I'm just going to call it like I see it. If there are metal shaving in that cover it's because they got in there while the turbo was sitting around collecting dust or in this case metal shavings. I'm sure if there had been metal shaving in there they would have blown out the first time the turbo was operated even in vacuum. SO I just can't accept that a we shipped you a turbo with metal flakes in the compressor cover and they stayed there even after it was operated on a vehicle.

As for the turbine housing threading there's too many variables to make any sort of judgement call. I know that you'd be the first person I've heard run into that issue and it would start to look like we build your turbo all wrong as some sort of cruel joke.

I'll read through the rest of the replies in this thread and respond in kind tomorrow.

- Michael

I personally wouldn't never take apart a turbo that's under warranty. That's asking for trouble!!

Honestly man I think you went about this situation in the wrong way.

Michael and Robert are good guys, I'm sure if you went about it in the correct manner they would worked something out with you.

snooopy365 said:

That is was I thought, paying for american parts... getting $§%$ from china.

Anybody know if a taiwan compressor cover for a 20g wheel will fit the green? I have a 20g "stock appearing" compressor cover and it wouldn't have enough clearance to use on the fp green. (I don't know why, according to the specs: the fp green wheel isn't bigger than a 20g wheel).

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99% yes. FP takes oem parts and changes them slightly, and this I learned by being in the Subaru world. Their hta68 starts life as a cheap oem subaru mhi s16g, and gets the inlet machined off, a wheel too big installed, and bam $1400.

So let me get this straight, My turbos warranty from you guys is also void because I took my compressor and turbine cover off?

If so you've gotta be kidding me, since i recieved the turbo incorrectly clocked. I understand if the wheels and internals were removed, but not the covers.

::Edit::

Nevermind, I see that he fully disassembled the turbo. In that case, I get it.

lasthope05 said:

So let me get this straight? My turbos warranty from you guys is also void because I took my compressor and turbine cover off?

If so you've gotta be kidding me, since i recieved the turbo incorrectly clocked. I understand if the wheels and internals were removed, but not the covers.

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I think you read it wrong. The OP disassembled the CHRA. Upon complete disassembly he noticed the compressor cover issue.

Yea, caught it last min.

That sucks.. I've ran their JB Green on 2 of my builds now and never had a problem.

They have great feedback, and products.

jakeachy said:

99% yes. FP takes oem parts and changes them slightly, and this I learned by being in the Subaru world. Their hta68 starts life as a cheap oem subaru mhi s16g, and gets the inlet machined off, a wheel too big installed, and bam $1400.

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Buy a new mhi turbo, throw away the compressor, machine the cover, add a billet compressor wheel, then balance it. How much can you do this for?

donniekak said:

Buy a new mhi turbo, throw away the compressor, machine the cover, add a billet compressor wheel, then balance it. How much can you do this for?

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band wagoner I see, how cute
Fp was paying a little over cost to the turbo distributors, your point is moot

jakeachy said:

band wagoner I see, how cute
Fp was paying a little over cost to the turbo distributors, your point is moot

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No band wagon at all, I made no claims to the quality of the turbo, or even if it works at all. I asked how much would it cost you to produce the exact same product. The price they pay is irrelevant.

If someone's cost to produce, and market a product is $50, but it would cost me $1000 to produce the exact same product, they are saving me money if they sell it for $800, 16x what their total cost is. Now whether or not it's a product I want is another story all together.

jakeachy said:

band wagoner I see, how cute
Fp was paying a little over cost to the turbo distributors, your point is moot

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I think it's fair what FP charges for their services/product. They spent time and resources to make a good product and should get paid for. They have bills to paid like you and me,so product markup is reasonable. In the end ,it's up to you if you're willing to paid for what they charge.

94allwheeldsm said:

This is about the crap casting quality of FP's compressor covers, not oiling issues, compressor wheel contact, thrust bearings etc...Its been known FP is Chinese parts....

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We have used a lot of Garrett and Mitsubishi parts so yeah I guess you could say that we have a lot of Chinese parts in our turbos.

You don't think all the parts in an MHI turbo are made in Japan do you? You think your GTX3582 is American made? Closest you'll get to that is a CHRA assembled in Mexico.

The majority of our turbo components in our 100% FP designed and built turbos is made in the United States of America and assembled by 2 full time techs who have around 25 years of experience between them assembling FP turbos. You tell me what turbo you have and I can tell you the name of the person who built it and guarantee you that he's been here at FP building turbos for at least 10 years.

- Michael

jakeachy said:

99% yes. FP takes oem parts and changes them slightly, and this I learned by being in the Subaru world. Their hta68 starts life as a cheap oem subaru mhi s16g, and gets the inlet machined off, a wheel too big installed, and bam $1400.

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Ok let's play the number game let's say you can buy a single MHI Subaru 16G for $560 from MHI but you can't just one, they have a minimum order quantity of 30 units. So now you gotta spend $16800 just to get production running, if not you gotta pay retail for the turbo but that'll run you around $750 and you can't really do that and be profitable. OK so now you got your 30pcs of 16G sitting in your warehouse which btw cost about $200 a day to run so you gotta figure that into the price of producing this turbo because tools, electricity, rent, these things all cost money and have to be figured into the cost of the turbo charger.

So you have your turbos sitting here and you want to make them a bad ass billet thing but you can't just run out and buy the Ebay billet stuff because that's just a bad copy of someone's aero. So you have to design your own wheel, so you sit down and there is a man behind a computer designing a wheel aero. It goes through rapid prototyping check for fitment, revised, prototyped, revised, prototyped, and then finally a functioning prototype if produced. At this point you're $10K plus in the whole on making an aero package and you haven't produced a single unit yet. Your still in the hopes and dreams phase and you haven't made a dollar.

So here you are with your $17K 30PCS of 16G, and your now $10K prototype wheel you want to take into production. So you call up the machinist and say "I'd like 30pcs please" and he says "Sorry that's not worth my time I'll need a minimum order quantity of 100pcs and it'll cost you $175 per unit" you have no choice you'll have to buy that 100pcs. So there's another $17K you have to spend to get your wheels made as a price that isn't through the roof. So now you're at $26K just to get production rolling and you still haven't sold a single unit.

Now finally you have your turbos and you have your wheels time to build some badder than hell turbos!!! Wait you need someone to machine the compressor cover and assemble the turbos can't really do that without a balancing machine. Well you're gonna need to get two really so you better pony up another $10K for some balancers unless you wanna be super baller and drop near 6 figures on a VSR. Ok so you have your turbos, your skilled laborers, your balancers, and your compressor wheels it's time to build some turbos after you've spent nearly $40K just to get everything up and running.

So you built 30pcs of turbo that you now have sitting on your shelf and if you want to just BREAK EVEN you need to sell each of those units for $1333.33 and that's just to get your 40K back. That's not accounting for any turbos you may have to warranty, mark up, or cost of doing business IE paying your employee's. So really you need to sell that turbo for around $1600 to break even and still manage to keep the doors open and bills paid. Then you gotta buy another $17K worth of turbos to keep the ball rolling and build some more. Then finally have you've sold around 60pcs you start actually making money.

So if you think it's easy and all we do is take other peoples stuff and slap a compressor wheel on it you just keep right on thinking that. We'll be here making kick ass turbos that are made to the highest quality because we don't cut corners.

- Michael

Michael@FP said:

We have used a lot of Garrett and Mitsubishi parts so yeah I guess you could say that we have a lot of Chinese parts in our turbos.

You don't think all the parts in an MHI turbo are made in Japan do you? You think your GTX3582 is American made? Closest you'll get to that is a CHRA assembled in Mexico.

The majority of our turbo components in our 100% FP designed and built turbos is made in the United States of America and assembled by 2 full time techs who have around 25 years of experience between them assembling FP turbos. You tell me what turbo you have and I can tell you the name of the person who built it and guarantee you that he's been here at FP building turbos for at least 10 years.

- Michael

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ive always thought about this the way you said it. Yes all these mhi turbos that everyone likes (including me) are made in in Asian countries. I understand though there is a difference in the stuff made in a no name shop vs a mhi shop. In reality im sure all of them are made by some underpaid small child and its kinda sad.

to the op i would say that this story is brought out the wrong way you tried to say that you were upset that they wanted to give you a free compressor cover but split the shipping. Then fp comes in and tells the rest of the story that you wanted a rebuild kit as well. Damn right, you should have to pay that shipping in my honest opinion your lucky they were willing to pay half on that item after you voided the warranty before even talking to the company you got it from (fp). That sounds way more lenient then i would have been with you. I get it, it sucks man that this happened but fp has been a very reliable name for years and im sure for many more to come.

Michael@FP said:

As for us voiding his warranty, yes absolutely and there isn't a manufacturer on the planet that would honor a warranty after the consumer took the unit apart before EVER reaching out to support. If you think that's unreasonable then I don't know what to tell you.

As for metal shaving in the cover I'm just going to call it like I see it. If there are metal shaving in that cover it's because they got in there while the turbo was sitting around collecting dust or in this case metal shavings. I'm sure if there had been metal shaving in there they would have blown out the first time the turbo was operated even in vacuum. SO I just can't accept that a we shipped you a turbo with metal flakes in the compressor cover and they stayed there even after it was operated on a vehicle.

As for the turbine housing threading there's too many variables to make any sort of judgement call. I know that you'd be the first person I've heard run into that issue and it would start to look like we build your turbo all wrong as some sort of cruel joke.

I'll read through the rest of the replies in this thread and respond in kind tomorrow.

- Michael

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Thank you for the response.

First: I'm OK with the void warranty for any moving parts.
After you send me the email with the price info for rebuild kit and cover + 50% shipping I did answere.
Maybe this emails (yes multiple because there was no response from your side) did end up in your spam filter.

I did wrote: I checked the bearings they are fine, just send me a new cover and you pay the shipping no rebuild kit. Why should I pay 50% shipping for your faulty cover?

The flakes are still there after I did "run" the turbo (just idleing) and if you look at the picture it is pretty clear why:
The flakes are inside the groove of the compressorhousing gasket.
If you assamble a turbo with the flakes in this position the gasket will just lock them in place.
I don't know if there were any loose flakes in the cover before installing it, I wasn't aware that I need to check for it.
The turbo was sitting around before I did install it, IN MY LIVING ROOM. Easy to tell: I don't have aluminum flakes in my living room.
So sorry but you shipped the turbo with the flakes, I'm 100% sure about that.

For the threading: I also have never seen it like that and it is EVERY THREAD (exhaust mainfold site and o2 housing side). Sorry if that all sounds like a crule joke but it wasn't funny when I did break a bolt because the threading wasn't done all the way. (I wasn't able to tighten it and could not figure out why, so I just tried to get it lose again. Didn't work because the bolt did bite into the unthreaded part and was a pain in the ass to remove. After that I checked the holes and did find the problem like I mentiontioned.)

The only way to install the turbo is to rethread every hole (isn't working for me because I don't have a proper tool for this thread) or using a bunch of washers to keep the bolds out of the unthreaded aera.

@jbeaton9292
Michael seems to be in defends mode all the way, so let me clear things:
Yes at first I ask for a rebuild kit as well because shipping a turbo around the world for a minor problem isn't cheap and the customs are cashing everytime.
After getting an feedback telling me the price and the 50% shipping "rule" I did check the bearings myself and decided that just getting a good cover is all I need.
In my point of view the cover should still have warranty because disassambling it doesn't effect the poor build quailty.

I did write multiple emails with my wish for just an new cover.

let me quote my email:

Hello Michael,

ok if that is the case I don't want any rebuild kit because of the fact that it doesn't have any scratches and shaftplay is in between the limits you did tell me.
Please just send me the compressor cover.

Shipping cost should be fully covered by your side because it isn't my fault that the quality isn't up to your standards.

Thank you for your service, next time I won't try to solve problems myself.

Best regards,
Benny

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There was no response what so ever. After waiting a few weeks I did write an email to an old friend working at FP to tell michael to answere my emails

I got this:

Benny,

I had made you an offer of $100 + half shipping for a rebuild kit and a replacement compressor cover and didn’t hear anything back.


That’s really the best I’m willing to do if you want just the compressor cover I’ll half shipping with you. Seeing as how it doesn’t affect the operation of the turbocharger and it’s not a part of the turbocharger you can see without taking it apart I’m not willing to be on the hook for shipping.

Thanks,

Michael

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Sorry but I'm an engineer and a rough edge like this will defently effect the operation of a high spinning turbo.
Also: I thought I bought a premium product?? Not some cheap taiwanese parts. (Even so the taiwanese guy I often deal with would have send a new cover asap...)

Yes shipping isn't a arm and a leg.... but is a badly produced cover my fault? No.
And hey: you can't see it so it is a great part? It is a turbocharger not an artwork that is just there to look good.

I didn't even write FP about the bad threadings because it would take month and after I've seen the lack of good customer support I can just guess that it would be a long hard fight to get that fixed.

I'm sorry for slowly bringing all details out of the dark. I didn't want to make FP look all bad (at first).
But if I don't post it now it looks like I'm just making a cruel joke.

I'm not amused at all about this.

Man, we are so lucky to even have stand up companies like this supporting this platform to begin with, and crap like this may eventually just drive them all away. On another note, when I find the time, maybe Ill replace my FP 18G I bought ten years ago (still running strong) with an FP Green at some point, and will happily pay whatever it costs as I know that FP products are reliable, and IF there is a problem, I know I can rely on FP to make it right.

I dont mean to bash you in any way @snoopy365 but how do you not have a tap set already? I'd think that would be one of those 5 second "let's just tap the rest of these holes" fixes. Doesnt seem like a big deal at all to me.

Here's my 2 cents... I think the op and fp had a little miscommunication with those emails. If Michael said that he would ship the compressor for free but not the rebuild kit that's perfectly fine. At first the op wanted the rebuild kit then said no but still wanted the compressor. Michael should still send him the compressor and with the warranty being voided the op acknowledge this and is fully aware of that. I think still can still be solved and there's no need for bashing a vendor from any of us dsmers. Thank you Michael for the awesome products from Force Performance(which I plan on getting a fp green or maybe different street turbo from them) and thanks to snoopy for building a dsm.

bmxfelon420 said:

I dont mean to bash you in any way @snoopy365 but how do you not have a tap set already? I'd think that would be one of those 5 second "let's just tap the rest of these holes" fixes. Doesnt seem like a big deal at all to me.

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I wasn't able to find one localy and had time on my hand so I used washers.

@1993 Laser RS AWD
I'm not making any stuff up, so if your support works like that and products look like that why wouldn't I post it?
Yes I could also keep emailing the support and they could keep ignoring my emails.

I was acctualy hoping for FP to comment on that but I think is fair to let others know what the products and support can look like.

Snooopy, you are not the only person that had your emails lost or "missed". Seems like there has been a lot of those emails missed... from different people.