ok, so i have seen this on prepper/ survival/ zombie shows, diesel motors can run on grease ect. And i know our motors can run on highly hot fuels, but what would it take to convert a 4g63 to run on grease, oils ect..

Plz keep in mind, this is just for intellectual conversation, and for the theoretical customization that could take place.

I have 2 motors i plan to build in the near future so i thought; perhaps if possible one could be a controlled experiment.

So lets start with this nifty video

I was under the impression that this was only possible in diesel vehicles. I could be wrong I never looked into.

ever heard of gasification? its pretty cool search it up it uses wood as fuel if im not mistaken it can be used on gasoline engines with minimum mods to the engine itself (obv building the gasafier is a whole different story)

Super high compression and high rail pressure with some special injectors? Thats the only way i could see it working. But i'm basing that off how a diesel essentially works

Well deisel engines have glow plugs but besides that I do not at all understand how they operate differently from ours. I have heard of the wood but I think that strays from the idea.[DOUBLEPOST=1412817611][/DOUBLEPOST]

boost97gst said:

Super high compression and high rail pressure with some special injectors? Thats the only way i could see it working. But i'm basing that off how a diesel essentially works

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So I take it that for the most part diesel engines must run super high comp? Is this how they work? Can they with out it?

Glow plugs are used to heat up the air entering the engine. They dont have spark plugs and relay on compression to ignite. They squeeze hot air and fuel until it combust.

Good read. Excuse me while I educate myself on my ponders. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel.htm[DOUBLEPOST=1412818530][/DOUBLEPOST]Also in not attempting to turn a 4g63 into a diesel, but rather see if its possible to replicate its ability to utilize alternative forms of fuel.[DOUBLEPOST=1412819205][/DOUBLEPOST]Geez looks like 16:1 comp is standard in diesel engines. I guess I need to research more info based on the forms of fuel themselves. If diesels/bio-diesels burn cooler than let's say e-93 and it takes more volume of diesel to compress to equate to the same combustion we would get on less volume aka compression ratio. Than I wonder if that difference could be compensated by spark itself? Or perhaps no bio-diesels can burn hot enough(for a DSM). ? I'll have to do more reading.[DOUBLEPOST=1412819415][/DOUBLEPOST]http://www.energyvortex.com/pages/headlinedetails.cfm?id=1839&archive=1

If you do decide to do a diesel swap, or run an existing diesel machine on recycled cooking oil, keep in mind that fast food places do not give away/sell their grease any more. However, it might still be possible to get used engine oil from places that do oil changes, however that crap might not be too healthy for the engine unless filtered very well.
On topic of glow plugs: usually they are used to start a cold diesel (during winter, for example) since they help to heat up the mixture in cylinders. After that high compression takes over producing enough heat for fuel to combust and the glow plugs are turned off. Think of pumping up a tire with a bicycle pump. Higher the pressure gets, warmer the pump becomes. Just an FYI: you can use a heat gun pointed at the air intake to pre-heat the mixture if the glow plug system stops working.
As far as running a gasoline motor on home grown fuel, about the only thing that comes to mind is ethanol.

Maybe you could use some parts from a 4D68 or the whole engine. Those were diesel and from the same time period as our cars so possibly some things may be similar to ours. (sensors, electrical connections, bolt patterns, etc) I have read some have used the crank from the diesel to make a stroker in a 4g63. So parts may interchange fairly easily. Might be as easy as doing a 4g64 swap.

You are not going to enjoy trying to use heavier, unrefined hydrocarbons in a low comp spark ignition getup.

miliman13 said:

Well deisel engines have glow plugs but besides that I do not at all understand how they operate differently from ours. I have heard of the wood but I think that strays from the idea.[DOUBLEPOST=1412817611][/DOUBLEPOST]
So I take it that for the most part diesel engines must run super high comp? Is this how they work? Can they with out it?

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Yes, high compression. Also, the biggest hurdle to clear would be the fact that diesel's are inherently direct injection. Much like you see gas engines now a days running upwards of 17:1(!!) afrs safely, a diesel ramps that up even leaner, up beyond 20:1 afr, way beyond, is feasbile under the right conditions(low load). Fuel is used to cool things, thats why a "gdi" engine can get away with running so lean at very low load and you see these new 2.0s, like my new focus, regularly getting over 40mpg hwy. As you've probably already seen, you would need the head modified, piston/rod mods/ injector modifications and other things to get a 4g63 to actually burn fuel oil.
Arent the new evos gdi? I know that hyundai and kia both have turbo gdi's. Thats the best of both worlds as far as fuel economy and power are concerned.

Cool idea to bat around. And i bet ur ass if you somehow got a chevy turbo diesel or the tried n true VW tdi engine in a 1g or 2g the lower drag coefficient would yield better mpg than either of those 4 door sedans.

Haha, a 2g dsm running on soy bio-diesel getting 65mpg hwy. What a sight that would be! Tons of fab work and wiring involved but ive seen some dedicated and seriously talented engineers on this forum that could make it happen. If i just hit the lottery and quit my damn job i'd give it a crack, just for S&G's, right?

o0GuitarKid0o said:

ever heard of gasification? its pretty cool search it up it uses wood as fuel if im not mistaken it can be used on gasoline engines with minimum mods to the engine itself (obv building the gasafier is a whole different story)

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Not quite, gasifcation does not turn wood or anything else into gasoline. Right now the big area of research is turning coal gasification, which turns it into syngas, and you can then turn that into gas or diesel via Fischer tropsch. Or it can be turned into methanol, which is what happens when you cook wood in a low oxygen enviroment, like the gasifacation your were speaking of.

miliman13 said:

Well deisel engines have glow plugs but besides that I do not at all understand how they operate differently from ours. I have heard of the wood but I think that strays from the idea.[DOUBLEPOST=1412817611][/DOUBLEPOST]
So I take it that for the most part diesel engines must run super high comp? Is this how they work? Can they with out it?

Click to expand...

Diesel compresses the air, and temperature rises above the aut0iginition point of diesel. The fuel is then injected into the cylinders, and combustion begins.

LandSpeed-DSM said:

You are not going to enjoy trying to use heavier, unrefined hydrocarbons in a low comp spark ignition getup.

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Whoa Whoa Whoa Ms. Lippy. You can in fact run a spark engine on heavier fuels such as diesel or kerosene. It was done all the time back in the early 1900's. The compression needs to be super low because the octane of these fuels is low, like in the 50's low. Because the fuels are so "heavy" they do not vaporize well so you need to start the engine on gasoline, and then switch over to kerosene once it is heated up.

Overall, your best bet on a biofuel 4g is to possibly gasify coal, and run it on compressed syngas, as if it was CNG. Or run ethanol, or methanol from cooking wood.

bastarddsm said:

Not quite, gasifcation does not turn wood or anything else into gasoline. Right now the big area of research is turning coal gasification, which turns it into syngas, and you can then turn that into gas or diesel via Fischer tropsch. Or it can be turned into methanol, which is what happens when you cook wood in a low oxygen enviroment, like the gasifacation your were speaking of.



Diesel compresses the air, and temperature rises above the aut0iginition point of diesel. The fuel is then injected into the cylinders, and combustion begins.



Whoa Whoa Whoa Ms. Lippy. You can in fact run a spark engine on heavier fuels such as diesel or kerosene. It was done all the time back in the early 1900's. The compression needs to be super low because the octane of these fuels is low, like in the 50's low. Because the fuels are so "heavy" they do not vaporize well so you need to start the engine on gasoline, and then switch over to kerosene once it is heated up.

Overall, your best bet on a biofuel 4g is to possibly gasify coal, and run it on compressed syngas, as if it was CNG. Or run ethanol, or methanol from cooking wood.

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Who pissed in your cheerios? I said nothing to the effect that it cannot be done.

Sorry, I guess you missed the billy madison reference??

i know its a heavier fuel, but diesel has more hydrocarbons (i.e. more power potential) per amount of fuel.. its been a while since ive been in school.

i can say a diesel talon would be pretty nasty...