So logs matter now?

Check em out..
http://www.ecmtuning.com/forums/showthread.php?p=647522#post647522

LandSpeed-DSM said:

You want to hit your target and still have 20% capacity left in your fuel system. When your maxed on pump and have to stretch it out on voltage you have no overhead and are taxing all components in that system.

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Perhaps we should be running them at higher voltage no matter what. How can you say someone's maxed on pump when the pump isn't reaching it's true potential with voltage dipping down to as low as the 12s.

Never overlook voltage variations. 1 Volt is 10% fuel capacity. The Boost-A-Pump is also a voltage regulator and therefore compensates for voltage fluctuations in your electrical system. And, contrary to the opinions of some, the BAP will actually INCREASE the life of the pumps because they do not have to work as hard with the increased voltage and amperage supplied by the BAP (see our post at http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7819- LOOK AT THE CHARTS). Note how much LESS duty cycle is imposed on the pump when the BAP is used? LESS DUTY CYCLE = LONGER PUMP LIFE

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Stapl3 said:

Perhaps we should be running them at higher voltage no matter what. How can you say someone's maxed on pump when the pump isn't reaching it's true potential with voltage dipping down to as low as the 12s

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Yea, no.. this just doesn't magically let you bypass thermodynamics.

Some of us have the foresight to rewire the entire suite of peripheral equipment supporting our power. Life expectancy at 14.Xv @ 70psi is going to be tangibly greater than life at 17.Xv at the same pressure.

You guys can quote the folks making money off these things all you like, I'll stick to system engineering and the operating conditions the equipment was designed for. Any of you bothered to ask one of these pump manufacturers what they think about running nearly 18v at full load?

In Link (many ECMs actually) you may stumble across the term "load." A function of ambient conditions, engine speed and manifold pressure. The pump has to suffer a direct increase in amp draw with increased voltage. For the eame range of operating pressures, increasing pump voltage is literally increasing pump motor rpm, the load put on it and the heat/stress imparted on the pump and your fuel.

That's not up for debate. I'm an engineer by education working in the field on massive electrical systems to roll out new distribution tech that will be serving nearly 12 million people in this area for one of the biggest companies in the world.. This is precisely the sort of consideration they pay me for.

Stapl3 said:

Perhaps we should be running them at higher voltage no matter what. How can you say someone's maxed on pump when the pump isn't reaching it's true potential with voltage dipping down to as low as the 12s.

source​

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Good point my friend!

keltalon said:

Good point my friend!

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Just for laughs, you did see the Kenne Bell literature he linked right? Presumably you agree or at least would like to believe them?

Remember when you posted this a couple days ago?

keltalon said:

There is no such thing as a safety margin with a fuel pump it runs wide open at what ever voltage is put to it. If you put 12v on it it runs wide open 100% of 12 volts and the same is true if you put 15v on it! It does what it does at it full capacity all the time at any voltage!

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Ok, now go review that link the poster you quoted shared and make note of where they (incorrectly) discuss "duty cycle."

That's where your safety margin clomes from. ;-)

You do not get linear gains from every volt you increase. Especially as pressure increases. And it's not going to be the same between pumps either.

You were seeing, quote: "lean misfires" per your post in the 2G Fuel pump thread on link forums. Sooo even if you were down on voltage to begin with, let's say 12.5VDC and in this perfect fantasy world where +1VDC = 10% more flow, getting to 14.5VDC would now give you a safety margin.

Excellent.

Oh, wait.. You say that you want to raise boost again by a few psi (increasing combined fuel pressure, decreasing volume flow) which will also increase the airflow

Aaaaand around we go. This is some real basic stuff folks.

I copied this out of a electrical construction and maintenance manual.

Sidebar: Rules of Thumb for High and Low Voltage

• Small motors tend to be more sensitive to overvoltage and saturation than do large motors.

• Single-phase motors tend to be more sensitive to overvoltage than do 3-phase motors.

• U-frame motors are less sensitive to overvoltage than are T-frames.

• Premium efficiency Super-E motors are less sensitive to overvoltage than are standard efficiency motors.

• Two- and 4-pole motors tend to be less sensitive to high voltage than are 6- and 8-pole designs.

• Overvoltage can drive up amperage and temperature even on lightly loaded motors. Thus, high voltage can shorten motor life even on lightly loaded motors.

• Efficiency drops with either high or low voltage.

• Power factor improves with lower voltage and drops sharply with higher voltage.

• Inrush current goes up with higher voltage.

Most of the tests I have seen that manufacturers use to show pump flow test at 13.5v. Basically right in the middle of 12.5 - 14.5v which just happens to be the normal operating range of a vehicles electrical system. The best thing you can do is make sure the pump is operating in the tested voltage range so it pumps what volume it is supposed to pump. Increasing pressure will reduce flow. A chart I just posted for someone the other day. Look at what the amps do and what the rpms do as pressure is increased.


Sorry to just jump in L> S> D> just throwing you some support and verification.

"Yea, no.. this just doesn't magically let you bypass thermodynamics."


, i want this as my sig now.

Boost a pump Installed! Took every bit of 30mins. I will be posting a complete review in the proper section of the forum.

Let us know what voltage you set it at and how base pressure is affected

Voltage on this unit is preset@ 17.5 base pressure is not affected because I didn't wire it to be active full time. I have it coming on a 5psi. I turned the boost up to 38psi yesterday and the walbro 450 didn't break a sweat. The car at this boost level doing a 3rd gear pull , the tach sits at 9000 grand until the gear is changed to 4th. I have a dyno appointment later this week. I will be posting a video soon. The boost a pump has turned an insane car into a lunatic!

So it basically stands out of the way, so to speak, until 5psi, then hits the pump with a constant 17.5vdc? Makes sense, you dont have to crank down your base pressure or mess with idle/cruise settings.
Ok, imguessing 717whp. Just sounds nice haha. Update us or link to thread when you go!

Yeah that's correct. 717. Just may be doable only if the bc272 have enough steam if not the 276 are ready to drop in. Richard33 dynoed 686ish @41psi bc272 I will have to see if I can sweeze 14 more ponies than he just to make my mark.

Good luck man. If you are confident in whatever valve springs you've got in there, a little bit of rpm can go a long way to making a power goal.

You would only need:
460wtq @ 8000rpm = ~700whp
430wtq @ 8500rpm = ~700whp
410wtq @ 9000rpm = ~700whp
385wtq @ 9500rpm = ~700whp

If your VE doesn't fall of a cliff, you should have this fairly easily with almost 40psi on that turbo.

LandSpeed-DSM said:

Good luck man. If you are confident in whatever valve springs you've got in there, a little bit of rpm can go a long way to making a power goal.

You would only need:
460wtq @ 8000rpm = ~700whp
430wtq @ 8500rpm = ~700whp
410wtq @ 9000rpm = ~700whp
385wtq @ 9500rpm = ~700whp

If your VE doesn't fall of a cliff, you should have this fairly easily with almost 40psi on that turbo.

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GSC 5041 Beehive with th thick chromoly seats. Its interesting you mention ve falling off thats what I am afraid of. I can see signs of this happening around 8000.

I am anxiously awaiting your dyno results with the BAP good luck.

Andrew Scott said:

I am anxiously awaiting your dyno results with the BAP good luck.

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Went to dyno results are 697.3 whp@ 6700rpm 573tq 2 pulls.i will post sheet later

Why only 6700?

Nice my next purchase will be a BAP.

LandSpeed-DSM said:

Why only 6700?

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Daggumitt landspeed you would ask . when I get home to my computer I will give an update . The bap is the real deal. I had another issue to arise stopping the dyno session not fuel related.

These cars prefer to be driven apparently, last time mine was on the rollers we ran into a coolant leak at the joint on a fitting and then the ECU would drop the tune mid pull.

She'll cooperate for you when she's good and ready! Hang in there

LandSpeed-DSM said:

These cars prefer to be driven apparently, last time mine was on the rollers we ran into a coolant leak at the joint on a fitting and then the ECU would drop the tune mid pull.

She'll cooperate for you when she's good and ready! Hang in there

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I am going to post my dyno sheet once I can figure out how to open a DFR file. There are some issues with my turbo and I been on the phone with precision most of the day and they want me to send it in for inspection. The sad part this had to happen at a time when I am only 2.7 hp from 700. I am going to give them an opportunity to explain some things before I discuss issue further. The car I think would have ended up around 715ish had plenty of fuel to spare.

Please, let us know everything about how PTE treats you and whats up w the snail. Im very interested in this, cause there have been many horror stories about their charges and "the-customer-is-always-wrong" policy they have.
What boost were you running?

boost97gst said:

Please, let us know everything about how PTE treats you and whats up w the snail. Im very interested in this, cause there have been many horror stories about their charges and "the-customer-is-always-wrong" policy they have.
What boost were you running?

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Well not to put my foot in my mouth but after the conversation with them today my feeling are mixed and have no idea what they are going to do. On the boost I have to review my log. I know 3rd gear was around 35psi.

Just to update.

I hoped to try this out sooner, but a snapped clutch fork a few weeks ago has slowed progress. I'm finally back on the road with the powermax wired in. Voltage is switched to 18v with a hobbs switch set at 5psi. The volts are increased from 14 to 18 over 1.5 seconds (adjustable) so there was nothing noticed with the tune. Wiring was very simple. My 12 year old fuel pump rewire was not up to the task on the trial run so I ripped it out and rewired from the battery to the relay 8 gauge.

To recap, before all of this I was at 33-34psi without issues on a rewired 450. When I redid my intake pipe and removed the evo maf, boost jumped to 37 and I was lean no matter how much I inflated the airflow, so I backed boost down to the low 30s. Now with the powermax installed I had plenty of fuel tonight slowly raising to 41psi, then I gave the boost controller another twist and at 45psi I am going lean again. The powermax does have the option to supply 18v or 22v, so I am deciding if I want to lower boost to around 40psi or try out 22v leaving boost at 45psi. Either way I'm happy as can be with the car... for now.

LandSpeed-DSM said:

Any of you bothered to ask one of these pump manufacturers what they think about running nearly 18v at full load?

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All my emails to Walbro fell on deaf ears.