2G OEM MLS or PermaTorque MLS

DSM_GSX01 · Jun 11, 2014

Ok I am having a hard time deciding on head gaskets. I have std bore on block and a .001 off it. On my cylinder head i am going to run GSC springs and S2 cams i dont know if i should upgrade my valves? I have .002 off head. My plan is making 550-600 hp. I will be running a HX40 6 blade. I will use L19 head studs. Also wanted to know if i do need to O-ring block for combustion? Any thing i can upgrade on here let me know please.

M1L3S · Jun 11, 2014

t3 twin scroll
hx40/35 hybrid (40 coldside, 35 12cm hotside)
l19 head studs
perma torque MLS
steel o ring head and block, (copper ring just crushes, not any good)
twin disk
built tranny
cement half the block (to support cylinder pressure)

then I would boost that bi*** until I broke something!!!!

:hmm:

holset wakes up at 30 psi, imagine 50 or 60 psi........ muhahahahahahahaha

DSM_GSX01 · Jun 11, 2014

I have a mitsu Bullseye on it. And so go perma torque MLS with L19s?

So will O-ring be any good at this point or just put gasket and studs on?

My transmissions is stage 4 by jacks transmissions. I was just gonna get a ACT 2900?

Will i not boost right away?

Archer Fabrications · Jun 11, 2014

For what it's worth. I run the permatorque, no o rings, standard ARP head studs and i have boosted 36psi 66lb a min no issues, made an 11.1 out of it. And since i just picked up more race gas I'll be trying 38psi ive got the .70AR t3 7 blade 60mm hx40.

Good call on the L19's i fear lifting the head at these boost levels but i dont think ive had an issue with it yet *fingers crossed*

Get a south bend clutch,

I run the 2600 and dont have any slipping issues, but i will be switching to a comp tripple disk as my next clutch.

DSM_GSX01 · Jun 11, 2014

Ok what hp are you making on perma torque?I was thinking about going bigger then L19 on studs? what you suggest?

And i was wondering what front mount to get? I want to run ETS most likely on this? What ETS do you have?

Also tripple disk is harder on transmission isnt it?

boost97gst · Jun 11, 2014

Cometic MLS held 33psi. Regular ARPs. Non o-ringed.

I have had success w cometic so ill be using their mls again. However, any of the 3 are great choices. You cant go wrong.

Lets not forget, a stock 7 bolt held something ridiculous like 700whp for a very long time. Had arp hardware. He may have even been running stock oem composite(composites arent bad, btw, they can hold a lot of power)
I cant remember the guy who owned/tracked the car. Maybe someone knows? It recently popped. Finally

Archer Fabrications · Jun 12, 2014

I didn't dyno but like insaid i ran 11.1@133 l19's should be fine l19's h11's magnus and map studs are all the same, they are all made of tool steel there is a manufacturer that makes 1/2" studs as well.

As for intercooler i run ETS 4"thick ultra short route

Tripple disj is way easier in the trans.

Kapok6 · Jun 12, 2014

I have been running an autozone/fel pro composite gasket for over 6mo now at 30psi+. Car has run a best of 11.3 @ 130 on this $35 gasket. This is on L19's torqued to 105ftlbs.

DSM_GSX01 · Jun 12, 2014

Ok so i will be good with L19s and perma torque.

And the short route 4" nice i was thinking 3 was big. Do u see any lag with big intercooler?

The triple is it streetable as well as track.

lasthope05 · Jun 12, 2014

L19's and any headgasket will work fine for the majority of people on this board. Also there is no precievable difference in lag between large and small intercoolers. The time it takes to fill and pressurize is milliseconds.

Also I wouldnt use any twin/triple disk on a car that lives most of its life on the streets. Cost / longevity on a street driven vehicle horrible, not to mention the harsh engagement/ chatter vs a good single disk like the southbend.

DSM_GSX01 · Jun 12, 2014

Ok I'm using thiat combo on head.

And i am building this for street use. Maybe once or twice a year i will drag.
I had a ACT and didn't like it.

lasthope05 · Jun 12, 2014

Southbend clutch from Tim Zimmer/Tmz performance gets rave reviews on not only torque capacity but streetability and stock like pedal feel. Have a talk with him about your goals and he'll be able to recommend a combination of pressure plate/friction material that will work well for you.

DSM_GSX01 · Jun 12, 2014

Ok that sounds. good.

Also i need suggestion on my o2 housing set up for my hx40? Was thinking about running punishment racings o2 with tial? Suggestions anyone?

bpk1337 · Jun 12, 2014

UrbanSmoker said:
For what it's worth. I run the permatorque, no o rings, standard ARP head studs and i have boosted 36psi 66lb a min no issues, made an 11.1 out of it. And since i just picked up more race gas I'll be trying 38psi ive got the .70AR t3 7 blade 60mm hx40.

Good call on the L19's i fear lifting the head at these boost levels but i dont think ive had an issue with it yet *fingers crossed*

Get a south bend clutch,

I run the 2600 and dont have any slipping issues, but i will be switching to a comp tripple disk as my next clutch.

boost97gst said:
Cometic MLS held 33psi. Regular ARPs. Non o-ringed.

I have had success w cometic so ill be using their mls again. However, any of the 3 are great choices. You cant go wrong.

Lets not forget, a stock 7 bolt held something ridiculous like 700whp for a very long time. Had arp hardware. He may have even been running stock oem composite(composites arent bad, btw, they can hold a lot of power)
I cant remember the guy who owned/tracked the car. Maybe someone knows? It recently popped. Finally

Kapok6 said:
I have been running an autozone/fel pro composite gasket for over 6mo now at 30psi+. Car has run a best of 11.3 @ 130 on this $35 gasket. This is on L19's torqued to 105ftlbs.

Quick question for you guys running high amount of boost with these head gaskets.. Did you guys do a resurface on your head/block. If so do you know what RA (Roughness Average) the machinist used to do it? I'm trying to get a gauge on that and if the L19's pretty much just make up for not having a mirror finish resurface job.

Kapok6 · Jun 12, 2014

The issue I was having was my head had been resurfaced, but the block wasn't. So when I was using the felpro mls, after a few hard races, i would start pushing coolant. I went through two MLS gaskets. Then I decided to try a composite just for the heck of it because obviously MLS gaskets weren't working for me.

Since I put the composite gasket on, I have not had a single HG related issue. This is multiple races against a 2011 GT500, multiple races against some new SS camaros, multiple races against some stock and modded new 5.0's, race against a G8, (you get the pic), and two runs so far down the track with the first being 11.6 @ 128, and the 2nd being 11.3 @ 130. BTW, I drove the car 70mi to the track, did those runs, and drove 70mi back.

Now, let me also say this: I am not knock MLS gaskets at all. If I had a freshly built motor where both surfaces were properly decked, I wouldn't hesitate about putting a fel pro MLS on there, (dry) and letting her rip. But unless both surfaces are ready for an mls, I will stick with composite, as it has served me well. Also, neither my block nor my head have been o-ringed. For what it's worth, 11.3 at 130 in a fully weighted street car, (3395lbs with me in it) puts this car between 500-600hp, depending on what calculator you use.

My overall point being, you may not necessarily need to spend $200 +/- on an mls gasket to get where you want to go.

bpk1337 · Jun 12, 2014

Kapok6 said:
The issue I was having was my head had been resurfaced, but the block wasn't. So when I was using the felpro mls, after a few hard races, i would start pushing coolant. I went through two MLS gaskets. Then I decided to try a composite just for the heck of it because obviously MLS gaskets weren't working for me.

Since I put the composite gasket on, I have not had a single HG related issue. This is multiple races against a 2011 GT500, multiple races against some new SS camaros, multiple races against some stock and modded new 5.0's, race against a G8, (you get the pic), and two runs so far down the track with the first being 11.6 @ 128, and the 2nd being 11.3 @ 130. BTW, I drove the car 70mi to the track, did those runs, and drove 70mi back.

Now, let me also say this: I am not knock MLS gaskets at all. If I had a freshly built motor where both surfaces were properly decked, I wouldn't hesitate about putting a fel pro MLS on there, (dry) and letting her rip. But unless both surfaces are ready for an mls, I will stick with composite, as it has served me well. Also, neither my block nor my head have been o-ringed. For what it's worth, 11.3 at 130 in a fully weighted street car, (3395lbs with me in it) puts this car between 500-600hp, depending on what calculator you use.

My overall point being, you may not necessarily need to spend $200 +/- on an mls gasket to get where you want to go.

Makes sense. Pretty much in the same boat here.. Can't seem to find a good machinist around me that will resurface my block to the correct roughness average for MLS. Will probably end up using a composite with some good head studs. Would have liked to use MLS though.

boost97gst · Jun 12, 2014

I never asked what RA? Honestly at that time i wasnt aware of the term even. I do know that both surfaces were decked obviously.

And last i checked, price wise, the cometic is under a 100 bucks. A LOT of people run them.

You can use a composite as well. Felpro would be fine. Hold 600hp all day.

I dont think the type of headstuds you choose will "make up" for imperfections in either surface. The clamping force would be the only thing that may have an effect but arent L19s and "regular" ARPs both torqued to about 90ft/lbs with moly/assembly lube?

Kapok6 · Jun 12, 2014

Torqued mine to 105...

DSM_GSX01 · Jun 12, 2014

I had jacks transmissions do stock rebuild on it and i got it resufaced like you can see yourself in it. block is also same way. not to sure on roughness part but i can ask.when you have resurfaced its have resurfaced make sure its all even flat surface. make sure twice if u have to.

Archer Fabrications · Jun 13, 2014

bpk1337 said:
Quick question for you guys running high amount of boost with these head gaskets.. Did you guys do a resurface on your head/block. If so do you know what RA (Roughness Average) the machinist used to do it? I'm trying to get a gauge on that and if the L19's pretty much just make up for not having a mirror finish resurface job.

My block and head were resurfaced to a mirror finish. So i dunno what to tell ya there. Theres a new cometic gasket with gas filled o rings that looks promising.

Archer Fabrications · Jun 13, 2014

boost97gst said:
I never asked what RA? Honestly at that time i wasnt aware of the term even. I do know that both surfaces were decked obviously.

And last i checked, price wise, the cometic is under a 100 bucks. A LOT of people run them.

You can use a composite as well. Felpro would be fine. Hold 600hp all day.

I dont think the type of headstuds you choose will "make up" for imperfections in either surface. The clamping force would be the only thing that may have an effect but arent L19s and "regular" ARPs both torqued to about 90ft/lbs with moly/assembly lube?

Yes they have the same torque value but the L19's are tool steel and dont stretch like standard ARP's do, so the difference is in the tinsile strength and stretch. Not so much the torque. I'm at 105ft lbs fwiw.

DSM_GSX01 · Jun 14, 2014

This is my hx40 turbo. Let me know wat you guys think.

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