No Spark/Fuel?

XiKeiyaZI · Dec 9, 2010

So here's the deal. My woman's brother has a 96 Eclipse GS with the 420a, which I have no experience with. A while back he could be driving and the car would just die. No bucking, stuttering, anything. It was almost like he was just losing fuel. Well before I could get around to going to visit him and check his pump and relays for him, his car died and wouldn't start. He has since checked the FP, Relay for the pump, and replaced the Coil.

He is getting no fuel OR spark. He even hooked up a switch for the pump and gave it a shot like that. Compression and timing is good, so I'm at a loss of what to tell him besides the ECU.

Does anyone with a 420a possibly know the cause of this?

GSXSixteenG · Dec 9, 2010

The 420a has a auto shut down relay and cas from what I remember reading. So, those might be a starting point if you want to get out there with a multimeter. To test them I have no clue though.

XiKeiyaZI · Dec 9, 2010

Auto Shutdown relay

GSXSixteenG · Dec 9, 2010

dr1665 said:
Not necessarily. On the firewall, driver side, there is a pair of relays - one for the fuel pump and another for the ASD ("Auto Shut Down") system - should the ECU detect that its not got the right signals from either the CAS or CMP, it will trip the ASD relay and the car will not firs up.

Get out your multimeter and backprobe your CAS and CMP at both the sensor connector and at the ECU connector. You should see an alternating 5VDC (CMP alternates at half crank speed and is easier to spot) at both locations. If you get that 5VDC switching 0-5-0-5-0 at both these locations while cranking, then you know the sensors are good. If you only get it at the sensor, but not at the ECU, then there is something wrong with the harness between the sensor and the ECU. Consult your Chilton's manual for the proper schematics on these guys. (You can also track down the ASD and fuel relays to test them for functionality at this time.)

If these sensors both check out like this, then you've likely narrowed things down to one of three things, imo:
ASD/fuel relay
timing belt alignment
ECU

You mentioned, in your PM, that you had washed off the engine prior to all this happening. Have you made sure the spark plug wells were bone dry? Water in those tubes will result in shorts that cause heavy misfire (flashing CEL during operation). It could be that your plugs are totally fouled out due to excessive misfiring during testing. Also, don't forget to check your fuses under the hood.

I assume you've got a CEL on. Can you bum a scanner from someone to pull the codes? Since you're a 99, you can't do the keydance to pull them in your driveway, but they're a good start in the right direction. Otherwise, the best way to test the ECU is to find a buddy with a 99 like yours, swap ECUs for a couple minutes and see if the problem goes away. I'd be willing to bet it's not the ECU so much as something else that's got you by the jewels right now.

Good luck to you.

From another thread...

Auto shut down system.... I was close enough. I'm no 420a genie

XiKeiyaZI · Dec 9, 2010

Awesome. Thanks for the info. I'll relay it.

D; I'm 420a inept as well.

black cotton · Dec 9, 2010

The 420a system is actually pretty basic.

Black wire w/ red stripe feeds the entire 12v (+) system

Off of the ignition switch harness, a black with red tracer wire feeds directly to the ASD relay located on the drivers side fire wall. The ASD Relay is a ground controlled relay, it receives its ground from the PCM via red with white tracer wire, its a timed ground 2-3 seconds KOEOff. Ground is not re-applied until ignition switch is cycled from ON to Start/Run.

Out of the ASD Relay the Black with red tracer theme continues, as it feeds JC1. Out of JC1 the black with red tracer feeds 12v (+) to: Oxygen sensors, Coil, Alternator, Crank Position Sensor, and Fuel Injectors.

With that said, loss of both fuel and spark CAN be the result of a faulty ASD relay, however aged 420a's are also known for faulty Crank Position Sensor's, which will cause the loss of both spark and fuel control, for with out the crank trigger signal the pcm does not know what cylinder is on TDC, thus shutting down all opperation control.

1: Turn key on, does ASD relay click?
2: Use Test light or volt meter, when key is turned on, do you receive 12v for 2-3 seconds on the black with red tracer wire at coil aka pin 2 aka middle wire harness side.

if you hear a click, and do have power at said wire, likely culprit for issue is the crank position sensor, distant second and least likely faulty PCM again HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

XiKeiyaZI · Jan 7, 2011

black cotton said:
The 420a system is actually pretty basic.

Black wire w/ red stripe feeds the entire 12v (+) system

Off of the ignition switch harness, a black with red tracer wire feeds directly to the ASD relay located on the drivers side fire wall. The ASD Relay is a ground controlled relay, it receives its ground from the PCM via red with white tracer wire, its a timed ground 2-3 seconds KOEOff. Ground is not re-applied until ignition switch is cycled from ON to Start/Run.

Out of the ASD Relay the Black with red tracer theme continues, as it feeds JC1. Out of JC1 the black with red tracer feeds 12v (+) to: Oxygen sensors, Coil, Alternator, Crank Position Sensor, and Fuel Injectors.

With that said, loss of both fuel and spark CAN be the result of a faulty ASD relay, however aged 420a's are also known for faulty Crank Position Sensor's, which will cause the loss of both spark and fuel control, for with out the crank trigger signal the pcm does not know what cylinder is on TDC, thus shutting down all opperation control.

1: Turn key on, does ASD relay click?
2: Use Test light or volt meter, when key is turned on, do you receive 12v for 2-3 seconds on the black with red tracer wire at coil aka pin 2 aka middle wire harness side.

if you hear a click, and do have power at said wire, likely culprit for issue is the crank position sensor, distant second and least likely faulty PCM again HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

That's a good bit of info there, sadly I forgot about this because it's not my vehicle. Anyhow, the owner got impatient and bought a new ECU to test out and see if it would fix the issue - Of course it didn't. We're dealing with a DSM. Anyway, I'll be heading out there to test the relays and electrical system personally. Hopefully I'll be able to get the issue resolved for him.

XiKeiyaZI · Jan 7, 2011

When I arrived today, there was no power reaching the coil pack. I made sure the ECU was plugged in snuggly (it wasn't), cleaned out the plug for the ASD relay, and snugged the clip into the coil pack and VIOLA, SPARK! Confirmed this the old fashioned way with a screwdriver. It doesn't feel too nice. Anyway, so that's taken care of. Another positive is that previously, the check engine light would never come on...now it does.

Well...It's still not starting. It sounds like it's not even trying to fire, almost like it's not getting any fuel. I checked the injector harness' for 12v and got that...then I checked for the cycling ground and got nothing, so the injectors aren't firing.

What could be causing this?

97EclipseT · Feb 27, 2011

Hello, I bought a 95 Eclipse 420a Turbo'd car with some modified wiring. 1 of the 2 relays was removed.
The Black/Red wire was soldered to the Red/Black, believe it is to coil pack and the Red/White wire is open!
To a Relay I have White/Red, Red/Blue, Black/White, Black/Blue which is to the Fuel pump.
The car does start and run but very rough and rich, with a error code 42, no MFI output from ECU. I believe this is caused by the Red/White wire not being hooked up and the ECU seeing no ASD Relay, which in turn is affecting the ECU's ability to control the timing and injector pulse width?
If someone could help me with the correct connections so I can put back the 2nd relay and get this car running right. Thanks

mix3d_3motionz · Oct 8, 2011

XiKeiyaZI said:
When I arrived today, there was no power reaching the coil pack. I made sure the ECU was plugged in snuggly (it wasn't), cleaned out the plug for the ASD relay, and snugged the clip into the coil pack and VIOLA, SPARK! Confirmed this the old fashioned way with a screwdriver. It doesn't feel too nice. Anyway, so that's taken care of. Another positive is that previously, the check engine light would never come on...now it does.

Well...It's still not starting. It sounds like it's not even trying to fire, almost like it's not getting any fuel. I checked the injector harness' for 12v and got that...then I checked for the cycling ground and got nothing, so the injectors aren't firing.

What could be causing this?

I have the same issues except i have replace ECU, Cam and crank sensor, coil, asd relay and fuel relay...so ### if u figure it out, helppppppppppppppppp lool

UCF201101 · Oct 30, 2011

Mix3d,
Are you getting fuel or spark or neither? Check to see if the coil pack is getting power, thru the plug wire with a light tester. If you are not getting spark check the coil pack. If you are getting power to the coil pack switch coil packs with a known good one. If that still doesn't work check your cam and crank sensor. If this still doesn't work, I would check to see if the cam key way had sheered off?....

Daniel

e96eclipse · Jul 23, 2012

UCF201101 said:
Mix3d,
Are you getting fuel or spark or neither? Check to see if the coil pack is getting power, thru the plug wire with a light tester. If you are not getting spark check the coil pack. If you are getting power to the coil pack switch coil packs with a known good one. If that still doesn't work check your cam and crank sensor. If this still doesn't work, I would check to see if the cam key way had sheered off?....

Daniel

What do you mean by can keyway sheered off?

punxnotdead185 · Jul 23, 2012

e96eclipse said:
What do you mean by can keyway sheered off?

He is refering to the locating pin on the cam, if the bolt holding the cam gear comes loose it can sheer the locating pin off if it can't handle the stress, same thing with the keyway that holds the timing gear on the crank. Its not very common but has happened to me before.

RayW · Aug 7, 2012

I just got a 99 eclipse and same thing with mine no fire from the Plug wires and my fuel pump is not kicking on when I turn key on. I ran 12v power to the fuel pump and it kicks on I've been researching this and seems all signs go to bad asd relay

sawyercustom · Apr 14, 2014

I am assuming this was the precurser, Before my 96 elcipse rs died totally, after a decent acceleration, after the car had been running for a while it would buck hard, only once, and not all the time, just randomly. Then one morning I put the key the key in and no fuel pump. I talked to my uncle he reffered me here, I have studied this thread to the point of almost memprization. I replaced the ASD relay, new from mitsu. new crank sensor, ebayed computer. No asd click, I have power on 2 terminals on the plug. The fuel pump relay next to it clicks but still no power to the coil pack or fuel pump. I have tried jumping connectors at the ASD plug with the key on o fool something, and still got nothing. Ideas, suggestions, some guidence? I do have a rear blinker out, stupid comment, but Ford had a grounding issue in the lights that effected the motor running. So I figured I would just add that.

Thank you in advance.

XiKeiyaZI · Apr 14, 2014

It ended up being a bad ECU if I recall correctly. Ironically the ASD went out with it as well. We went through a few days of diagnostics before figuring it out. But considering how long ago it was my memory is a little fuzzy.

sawyercustom · Apr 15, 2014

A buddy just said something about an inertia switch that ford has, saw some eclipses have them, any idea where it may be located? someone said asd relay, but thats not a resettable switch. I'm a bit confused.

UCF201101 · Apr 28, 2014

Good afternoon guys. I am working on an ozzy edition 99 eclipse with a 420a. I pulled the engine and tranny out of the car. I did not unplug the ecu at all. I hooked up all the wires and double checkedto see if they are in all the way. I am not getting any spark...nor am I getting any volts coming from the plugs. How do I verify that the stock alarm is the problem?

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No Spark/Fuel?

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