You will need larger lines for that. From what I recall, stock fuel lines are good for about 520whp on pump.

For my goal of 700whp, I've gone with a walbro 400 e85 pump and a Bosch 044 inline pump. For that kind of a goal on e85 you'll probably be stuck using something like a aeromotive a1000.

There's also lots out there on fuel pumps and hp ratings that you can find.

Thanks!
Yea i found some info on different kinds of pumps, but i don`t know how i would calculate that when using both an in-tank and a inline pump.
So i could go 255 + aeromotive a1000?

I don`t think i will be able to sell the 255, so keeping that in the tank would be the best way to go financially.

Not many people in the DSM world are using them but the new Holley twin pumps are working great in the domestic world. We are currently testing one on a 66 nova with a LS3 and a Vortec blower at 800 HP on E85. Super quiet and no failure as of yet but we only have a few miles on it.

This is the pump

Holley Performance Products Dominator™ In-Line Billet Fuel Pump (Hi-Flow); Up to 1800 Horsepower EFI; Up to 2100 Horsepower Carb 12-1800

Sump the tank or run a larger in tank pump. The 255 will not provide enough for the a1000.

If you're worried about how much you will loose by selling the 255, you aren't ready to spend the money to get to 700whp.

Yea that Holley pump looks nice, i like how you can run 1 or 2 of the twin pumps.

So, at the flow i`m needing the 255 is only going to be a restriction rather than helping?

Skip the A1000 or trying to run pumps in series.

Your options are basically Weldon 2345a with a step down box ($$$) or MagnaFuel MP-4303 which I run and is the only electric pump this size rated for continuous duty.

Or mechanical pump.

Alright, thanks.

That MagnaFuel pump was`nt too expensive, and the Holley pump also looks interesting.

Just wondering, when running pumps in series i won`t actually be increasing the flow, only the pumps ability to keep the flow at higher pressure and demand?

EDIT: also, are you sure i need that big of a pump? I read on the Walbro 450LPH pump that it can support 800hp @ 12 volts. And ExtremePSI have a sale on those for $189

We run the Magnafuel 4703 in our 1200 hp Camaro and it works great on E85, it is a bit noisy and overkill imo for a street driven DSM. We are relatively new Holley dealers so we are just getting to use the products but the pumps so far have been very quiet. We run 3 255 Walbro in our customers 1300 hp supra and that is also quiet (all on E85) but we have lost a Walbro in the past on a few vehicles with multiple pumps and cost a piston here or there. We don't have any experience with the newer big 450+ Walbros/Aeromotive pumps but I am thinking it is what Holley is using in their twin pump design. Holley pump is in parallel, we have not run pumps in series, as I do not feel it would be beneficial over a parallel setup.

Going with the Pro tuner 750 inline in our DSM if we don't go methanol (which is very tempting ). We usually prefer a single pump if it is feasible as they seem to hurt less parts when the pump goes out (and they all do).

Lost a Magnafuel at 1000 ft mark stayed in it and didn't hurt anything at 160 traps and 3600 lbs, thought for sure it would have cost at least a few pinched ring lands but no damage, lucky day that one was.

Heh yeah i see your point about using only one pump, i would hate to detonate the engine becaus of a faulty pump.

And a quiet pump would be nice as this actually is a car i still want to enjoy out on the road on sunny days and almost use as a DD.
And the buzz from the 255 can be a bit annoying already.

After some research i think i would need more than 450lph, according to this: Fuel Injector and Fuel Pump Calculator i would need closer to 560lph

I drive my 4303 on the street. My Commute is 17 miles each way, no highway.

It's not just peak flow you need to look at either. How much will it flow at X voltage and Y pressure on your fuel at Z worst case AFR?

Typically you want 20% margin for safety on that.

Here's the spreadsheet I put together for this pump using several fuels. I "do the math" before anything goes on my car or a client's.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...dHh3RGpienAyYXRrNUF3c2Y0cEwyNlE&usp=drive_web

You will need this pump, the Weldon or the mechanical due to the boost pressures a 2.0L like ours needs to make that power on E85 in almost all cases. There is a certain stubborn know-it-all on here that insisted on using Walbro 450lph and recently found out the hard way it's not up to the task at about 680whp. This was on a Manual FWD with what's probably a generous dyno as well..

Yeah the 4303 looks and sounds very nice. I might get it, is it complicated to remove the intank hanger and make my own pickup?

Didn`t he keep an eye on his wideband while dynoing? Or does the fatal lean`ness come too quick?

Dynochallenge section. 3rd guy i checked profile in the 700 range had his fuel system listed: twin 255s in tank, 8an feed. 707.8whp. It can be done with 2 255s. Data is there. read here to see DSM Forums - View Profile: Tort9320g

I usually check through that section to see what others have done. When they get really high hp they are coy about what is in their setup but a few offer more details than others. The mods lists are no doubt very long and probably too much to write down. Anyway, there ya go: a double hanger with 8an feed will get ya there. On e85 no less.

LandSpeed-DSM said:

I drive my 4303 on the street. My Commute is 17 miles each way, no highway.

It's not just peak flow you need to look at either. How much will it flow at X voltage and Y pressure on your fuel at Z worst case AFR?

Typically you want 20% margin for safety on that.

Here's the spreadsheet I put together for this pump using several fuels. I "do the math" before anything goes on my car or a client's.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...dHh3RGpienAyYXRrNUF3c2Y0cEwyNlE&usp=drive_web

You will need this pump, the Weldon or the mechanical due to the boost pressures a 2.0L like ours needs to make that power on E85 in almost all cases. There is a certain stubborn know-it-all on here that insisted on using Walbro 450lph and recently found out the hard way it's not up to the task at about 680whp. This was on a Manual FWD with what's probably a generous dyno as well..

Click to expand...

Thats a drag. Considering i have the 450.... But id be happy with that power. Going AT and awd will knock it down even further for me. What was said "know-it-all" using? 6an or 8?


Lol, i thought i knew who you were referring to. Nevermind. I got him.....hahaha

I think 2x255's would do it if you were on a big turbo and didn't need lots of boost to do it. I have 2 255 externals blowing into a stock hardline, and fuel fliter. My car has gone 137, and it weight 3300lbs. That's more than 600whp, and it was at 38psi. Get a -8 on there, and a KB boost a pump and your there. They are $100 ea, and never fail. You could even go the Tim Zimmer route and run 2 sets in parallel and probably have enough fuel for 1000whp on E85.

Someone the other day was spouting some unfounded info about the limits of stock lines. I THOUGHT it was you who had stock lines still.... I wasnt 100% so i couldnt reply. Rock on, you bastard!!!!

You can get pretty far on the stock lines with a bit of tweaking. Deleting the banjo bolt on the stock filter and the drinking straw that runs to the fuel rail for example makes a big difference.

Though you need to remember on E85 you're trying to cram 30-50% more fuel through those lines for the same amount of airflow. The pressure drop from what the pump is required to generate vs. what's needed in the rail(s) is going to significantly impact flow and the load on our generally anemic electrical systems.

Yea, 3 buck/gallon race gas, guess theres SOME downsides . Like needing a LOT more of it to do the job. Im still on stock lines but did the banjo mod. At my power level i didnt notice any problems with the 450 and stock lines but 700 is a whole nother world away.

I recently redid my fuel setup. I have a rewired 255 feeding an a1000 all through 8 an lines and a allstar filter. Stock fuel rail drilled and tapped for 8an. 6an exit to an aeromotive afpr and stock return lines. I had to drill out the plastic return regulator in the tank cause I couldn't get it to drop below 40 psi. I cant give any raw data cause i'm only around 500 hp, but I can say that the pumps can build 130 psi with the car not running (12-12.5ish volts). When I put it all together I tightened down my afpr to raise the pressure to test for leaks. I stopped at 130 but i'm sure it could have gone higher.

Lots of good info here, thanks!

I have a Russel fuel filter connected to the stock hardline, after the filter i have 8an to an Aeromotive fuel rail.

i might try just using one 450lph intank at first, then if thats not enough i could get the double hanger from extremepsi and one more 450.

Is it hard to make a pickup through the hanger? Or does people usually drill a hole in the gas tank for an external pump?

lars y said:

Is it hard to make a pickup through the hanger? Or does people usually drill a hole in the gas tank for an external pump?

Click to expand...

I'm also curious about this. Or can you just feed the 4303 with a intank pump, which in my case would be a 450

Due to the fact that I used a 255 in tank I cant give insight on how you would do a pickup. IF it were me I would drill out the stock feed 90 and do a bulkhead fitting down to a hose or pipe to the bottom of the tank. That way you could always just replace it with an intank fuel pump to feed the external if it didn't work out.

1killerEVO said:

I'm also curious about this. Or can you just feed the 4303 with a intank pump, which in my case would be a 450

Click to expand...

If you're looking to go to a 4303 sized pump while still trying to keep things simple, it would be best to sump the back of your stock tank. Or you can use bulkhead fittings and drop a line through the stock hanger.

The MagnaFuel rep I spoke with told me to run -10AN both to and from the pump with no other pumps directly upstream. I run a surge tank and the stock tank. So little pump in the main tank lifts fuel to my 3gal surge tank and the big pump draws from the surge tank to pressurize the rail.

I have a picture of the pickup I made for my car in my build thread. I want to clarify that while I am running a stock hardline to the filter I am running a custom setup from the filter on. I made a new banjo bolt, that allows 2 stock lines to go on it, and I run dual fuel rails, each with a set of FIC750's and a n/t fpr. This setup is almost maxed out at about 650whp. (137mph traps)

If a 4303 can be fed with a 450 then I would likely to run one in-line after my wally 450 also.


Edit: nevermind. Thanks landspeed, Just didnt see your post above

LandSpeed-DSM said:

I run a surge tank and the stock tank. So little pump in the main tank lifts fuel to my 3gal surge tank and the big pump draws from the surge tank to pressurize the rail.

Click to expand...

Ah i see. So the surge tank will always have enough fuel unless your driving like a mad man for a long period of time.

Would a 450 intank be able to supply the 4303 with enough fuel without a surge tank you think?

Thanks

EDIT:
I could just do like you have done and use the 255 i already have in my tank and get a surge tank and a 4303.
Where have you placed your surge tank and the pump?
Do you have any kind of security in place in case the surge tank would go empty?