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dakang

Proven Member
51
0
Nov 19, 2013
Houston, Texas
Ok fellas. It’s time for me to make some tough choices. But before we get into that, I am purchasing
ECMlink in the next couple of weeks. Hands down I need my hands on that LOL.
First off my 95 GST has 137xxx miles on it. The previous owner did a timing job and changed the basics out. The basics may not have included cam seals because I have a leak there and possibly need new valve seals (blows blue smoke) not too worried about that at the moment since I want to rebuild the head anyway just so that I can KNOW what I’m dealing with.
My "conundrum" LOL
Eventually, this is going to be an AWD conversion. I have been reading on this for at least 6 months before I bought the car because I couldn’t find any GSXs that were worthwhile(price and conditions were crazy). Anyway, back to the conundrum. I can’t decide whether I should try the swap first or rebuild the head. I am sure most will say rebuild the head first, but I really wanted to build both the head and bottom end the same time. I know this can get costly with the bottom end since this is not my first rodeo.
My question
Should I just change out the components that are leaking (valve seals, blown turbo, cam seals) for now and do the AWD swap, building for high HP? My ultimate goal for this car is around 400hp to the crank for track days and reliable DD. This is my first FWD in a long time and I never planned on going back LOL. In either case I have been planning for the following below. These will happen regardless of which path I choose. Some may not go on right away but eventually it will. I have a target date of mid-May to complete. Your suggestions are welcomed and very much appreciated. Oh and sorry for the long read. I like to be thorough.
Walbro 255
Aeromotive or Fuel Lab FPR-Which ever I find cheaper when ordering will be it. I heard plenty of good for both.
Injectors?? Not sure. I recently read something the other day that melted my brain so suggestions are WELL welcomed LOL
EVO 316G-Getting rid of that eBay blown turbo
O2 housing- where can I get a quality one flanged for an external wastegate and for a 3” downpipe? I have seen a lot but they are 2.5”
Tial 38 Ext gate-I just want one
Catch can- undecided
HKS SSQV- time to get rid of that greddy knock off that came with the car and leaks.
AEM Truboost- I have a Hallman now. Works fine but I need a better boost gauge as the one I bought the car with does not read vacuum so why not kill two birds with one gauge? LOL.
AEM wideband- just a must have in general for me.
 
Everything you said is really based on what you want out of your car. I currently an in the middle of an AWD swap. My reasons are for snow and traction. If that's problems you don't want to have, than go AWD. 400 hp will suck with FWD, I only have like 275hp and it sucks. But that's just my opinion. AWD will ad some value to the car as well.
The leaks should be fixed ASAP either way.
For injectors, you should shoot for about 60-80% idc of whatever your goal hp is. Generally, too large of injectors can lead to tuning/idle issues. 850 sounds like a good set for you. Check Google for recommendations on injector sizes. There are helpful calculators for that.
As for the wideband, I'd avoid AEM only because some members have had issues with them. I use an Inovative. They work perfectly with link too.
Make sure to go through and check ALL your MX has been taken care of. Good luck!
 
I'd get the car running right first. Why convert to awd and blow all your duckets to show off a car that smokes and leaves oil drops all over town. At 400 hp you should have a pretty decent highway runner. Also, you need to be looking in the 1000cc injector range to keep idc's low, and probably ditch the e316g thoughts, look for a 20g or equivalent (50trim etc)

I have the same goals but without the awd swap. After I break in my new 6 puck I have a big holset h1c that's a bep housing away from bolting on. Should hit the 400 mark easily
 
Keep it fwd!! I have two fwd dsm's, 1990 laser and a 1995 gsT. The laser is bone stock besides web cams and will be getting my hx40 setup and the gsT is my full out drag car and is getting my gt42 T4 twin scroll set up on a couple days. If you can drive the car then awd don't mean much. Look at all these guys 700+hp awd barely running 11.9-10.5? And some fwd under than running 9.6? Kiggly running 8.21? You can make an fwd work, you just got to learn to drive it better.

If it has to do with snow, then yea awd is the only thing. But your already made up your mind and are looking for advice on the engine being built or doing the swap. Then it's totally up to you. You can rebuild the head for 150-200 for machine work, cleaning and assembly. Then parts whichever ones you want. If you only trying to make 400, dks 264/272s are the way to go. I've ran them on my 434fwhp 20g set on 91oct. And you can use your stock springs and retainers. Then all you got is the seals, and new valves if you want to go that route. Pistons, rods and bearings can be had for under 800. Machine work isn't cheap depending on what you want to do.. The more and more done and the price can get really high. I have about 3500-4000 into my engine and that's not even close to as high as it can get.

For the awd swap your going to need to spend some money as well. New awd transmssion, driveshaft, suspension, sub frames, k frame, gas tank, rear diff, rear axles, flywheel, starter plate, transfer case, the list goes on. You can cheap out and buy things used for cheap or do it right and get things you know will last. Then you have the work you have to do to even get the things to work. The time, the work and some welding. If it's your dd and you don't have another car you'll be out of a car for a bit.

It would suck to do all that stuff and the trans go out in a couple weeks. Or the axles going bad, flywheel have wrong step height and have to dig right into the trans. Honestly there's too many things that can go wrong and the money spent can be spent on a lsd and some stocky tires. 400whp ain't nothing hard to control. I was running 12s with street tires. It really comes down to driving.

God bless, hope this helps your decision,

Anthony B.
 
Thanks fellas. This is making my decision somewhat easier. For the AWD, its more of a convinience thing. I havent seen snow in a few years(Texas LOL) but my route to work is filled with gravel and dirt and th FWD doesn't like it too much. I suppose I can put the effort into the FWD with a Quaife, but its hard to get myself motivated to get one for $1K when i can get a gsx with a blown motor for under 2K LOL. and yes i understand the concept of the new parts vs the used ones which is what had me stuck on my decision. Hell, i even found one for 900 last month but just couldnt bring myself to it once i saw it was in a tall field of grass.

So Members have been having issues with AEM widebands? I will do a search on that in a bit. Buddy of mine has a 240SX and loves it. I also wanted it to keep one brand of gauge and i cant get away from the Truboost. Crazy i know, but I'm anal like that LOL.

As for the maintenance, thats a definite must in either direction I go. I dont drive the car too often right now. Maybe once a week due to the smoke show I put on and i can live to have it down for a couple of weeks. In process of selling my current daily now.

As for the E316g, I am mostly looking towards this because i have heard so many good things about reliability. That is always my main concern since I am not getting paid to race haha

P.S. Believe me I can drive me a FWD. I have had 4 Hondas and only one was RWD LOL.
 
If you want MHI reliability, a 20g will be more on par with your desired power level. Still a MHI turbo, still a bolt on turbo, but no where near as restricted as a 16g
 
I've seen the 20g mentioned in just about every 16g thread I've read and never really paid attention to it. I will have to do some searching on the cost now.

What about an O2 housing for an external gate with a 3" flange for my downpipe? any reputable places i can try. i found a punishment version that would work for me except it is 2.5"

Thanks fellas
 
I've seen the 20g mentioned in just about every 16g thread I've read and never really paid attention to it. I will have to do some searching on the cost now.

What about an O2 housing for an external gate with a 3" flange for my downpipe? any reputable places i can try. i found a punishment version that would work for me except it is 2.5"

Thanks fellas

Since the factory o2 housing dumps out to the exhaust at 2.5", aftermarket exhausts neck down at the o2 housing to a 2.5" two bolt flange... go look. They make the bolt on housings 2.5 inches because that truly bolts on. If you want a full 3" housing you will need to make your own or have someone make it at probably a hefty price tag.

There are a couple different routes to take for the wastegate issue,
1, what's wrong with an internal gate on a turbo built to run one?
2, weld the flapper shut and remove the arm, run manifold with a wastegate provision.
3, remove the wastegate/flapper and run an o2 housing built for a wastegate.

Option 1 is the easiest.

And the cost of a 20g is very comparable to a 16g. If fully rebuilt and basically brand new they won't be much more than maybe $100 in price difference.

Edit: basically, the 16g is rated lower than your goal at max power, some have been able to sqeeze a bit more with their infinte amounts of knowledge, a great tune and use of e85. Look at the dyno results thread on here. See what turbos are making around your goal and decide from there. I decided to go holset based on three things, bolt on options, great power and reliability, under $700 for the full setup WITH the $300 bep housing... just a couple days ago some holsets went for between $107 and $175 on ebay, all claimed minimal shaft play off a running vehicle.... just another avenue to check in to.
 
First anyone who tells you awd isn't a big deal is crazy. There is a reason you couldn't find a good awd but found a gst easily. And the guy who was talking about 1/4 mile times is flat out nuts. Notice his profile says he runs a 13.8. My wife's SUV would be a good race for him.

As far as you other things with 137k miles you probably should just rebuild the whole Motor. Why dump thousands into hanging parts off of a nearly 20 year old motor.

The aem wideband sometimes has problems logging with dsmlink that's why people don't recommend it. It's design also makes it slower. It is only a fraction of a second, but in that fraction, your engine has had 400+ individual combustion events. Think about that for a moment.

The aem truboost is a waste of money. You can use dsmlink for electronic boost control with a $30 solenoid.

I would buy a turbosmart wastegate. They are a lot smaller than the current crop of tials and it can be a right fit on the 02 hiusing. I just switched this past year to o2 housing wastegate from the manifold an I had to grind a lot of y ps pump to fit it.

For injectors just get whatever is appropriate for the fuel tou are using. You don't need to drop a grand on 2150's if you are running gasoline.
 
Agreed with most post above I was in yours shoes a few months back. Except I am AWD it was very hard finding a AWD 2g but i refused to go fwd being a Ex honda owner and traction always being an issue. Yes you can make FWD work i did for years. But making it work is not as simple as just learning to driver better Especially in Street trim. It helps having dsmlink, it is awesome you will love it. Try and find V2 as it can be had cheap and since you have a 95. They came with a Eprom ecu im sure Thomas D. at ecmlink will be happy to cut you a deal if you send him your old eprom to upgrade to V3 from v2. Also the AEM WB can be calibrated to work correctly with link. There are great toturials on youtube step by step on this process. I run a AEM and have no issue now that I have calibrated my gauge. Get your smoking issue taken care of first before your convert to awd. Like posted above makes NO sense to be awd if your car is stuck in the garage with a blown motor. Keep the Hallman its a great MBC(I have one) and do an ingersolrand mod when you get ECMlink that will allow you to controll boost electronically via link. The 16g vs 20 is all preferance to spooltime ,power goals and what fuel you plan to run. Also the same with choosing injectors. If your runing link go as big as you can and So you only buy once and have room to grow. I cheaped out and bought a set of RC660s and will be selling them soon as i am going E85. And plan to run a 14b till I purchase a HTA68. Save your self $ and stay internal Waste gate. IMO there isnt much to gain going external if your current set up is internal already. Just my .02$ that $ can be better spent else where.
 
First anyone who tells you awd isn't a big deal is crazy. There is a reason you couldn't find a good awd but found a gst easily. And the guy who was talking about 1/4 mile times is flat out nuts. Notice his profile says he runs a 13.8. My wife's SUV would be a good race for him.

Oops did I forget to update my profile again, dang I'm sorry haha, know who the fxxx your talking about before you start talking. I got more in my 95 gsT then you'll ever see in your life, but it's ok, because your so fast. I mean your wife has a 9sec SUV. Props to her.

Listen to lame people if you want to, but 8-10 times the people who post have never done shxt but unplug there bcs say I'm so fast!!

Whatever you do, have fun doing it, don't listen to haters.

God bless,

Anthony B.
 
Oops did I forget to update my profile again, dang I'm sorry haha, know who the fxxx your talking about before you start talking. I got more in my 95 gsT then you'll ever see in your life, but it's ok, because your so fast. I mean your wife has a 9sec SUV. Props to her.

Listen to lame people if you want to, but 8-10 times the people who post have never done shxt but unplug there bcs say I'm so fast!!

Whatever you do, have fun doing it, don't listen to haters.

God bless,

Anthony B.

Agree what ever you choose have fun doing it. I am not a "hater" either. I have owned multiple FWD hondas not nealy as high HP and your set up but even at 250fwhp street trim daily driving was a issue and thats in AZ where it is mostly dry weather. Was my fwd honda fast for what it was Yes, but for a daily driver. My AWD tsi platform performs alot better with a simple OEM set up on E85. And is much more pleasing to drive in street trim (street tires). Have had both just MHO.
 
Agree what ever you choose have fun doing it. I am not a "hater" either. I have owned multiple FWD hondas not nealy as high HP and your set up but even at 250fwhp street trim daily driving was a issue and thats in AZ where it is mostly dry weather. Was my fwd honda fast for what it was Yes, but for a daily driver. My AWD tsi platform performs alot better with a simple OEM set up on E85. And is much more pleasing to drive in street trim (street tires). Have had both just MHO.

He wasn't talking to you, and lets not argue over awd vs fwd because its obvious. :p
OP I think you need to save up a lot more money because the awd swap is going to cost at least as much as the bottom end.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/353458-2g-dsm-awd-conversion.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/476777-1g-dsm-road-race-setup-guide.html
 
Do your maintenance before you attempt any kind of swap. What's the point of doing the swap if your engine grenades?

agreed, i would get the car running and then you can save and build the drivetrain. when it is time to swap drivetrain components, i would then do the bottom end. the motor has to seperate from the trans at that point
 
I would do maintenance first your car needs to be running right before any mods can be done. After that I would do AWD swap first. Just in case you dont meet your mid-may goals or something happens then you got traction come winter time. Plus whats the point of having that power if you cant put it to the ground. Just my .02cents
 
Thanks for all the replies fellas. I think i may have confused myself and others with some of my wording LOL. Pretty much as long as I have this car in my life(accidents happen), It will eventually be AWD. My tough decision was whether or not i should invest in the AWD swap first or Bottom to top build. Thanks to all the replies, i have been able to decide it would be best to go with the engine build first. Should be starting to tear this bad boy apart maybe this weekend if not the next. However, after reading comments on the 20g and doing some research this weekend, it seems to be the better choice to have some breathing room with my 400hp goal. Im leaning more to the 20g but i have read some debates on its spool time vs the e316g. aAny personal experiences on that one?
 
The spool time on a 20g comes on a little bit later than the 16g. Its still not considered a "laggy" turbo by any means. Fwd guys like it because the power comes on smoother than the 16g, my 16g spools instantly and torque steers me almost off the road. Thats why I'm going with a hybrid holset build that I mentioned earlier, it should spool almost exactly like a 20g with a little more flow.
 
From experience you can barely tell the difference in lag at all. The 20g is a very nice turbo and the things you can do to it are great. People who talk about lag are ones that have never driven a car with a big turbo in it. I mean I still don't think my hx40 is leggy haha. I plan on driving my gsT with the gt42 set up on the street (to the dyno and paint shop) and I'm sure it won't bother me one bit as far as lag. You can never go off what people say altogether, try it for your self. You can always sale a turbo for the price you oay( saying you got it used that is) and buy a different one. For instance, I paid 400 for my freshly rebuilt 20g and I actually traded it for a rebuilt hx40, also had a buyer lined up just in case for 500, so it's easy to sale these turbos all I'm saying. That way if you actually do huh ink the 20g is laggy, which it isn't, sale it and buy a mallet turbo.

Anthony B.
 
I agree with what you say, but I also have a theory on why a guy with a big turbo vs small turbo 'could' argue lag.

You get used to how to drive your car, and how to spool your turbo.

Its different all around. But I know 20g's don't hit 18psi @ 3100 like my b16g does. I'd put it on the closer end of 4k (3600+)... that being said. In a fwd car I personally think it is better to have a little bit slower spooling turbo to make sure you have enough inertia before the big hp kicks in, to help keep down wheel spin and serious torque steer that you experience with really snaply turbos.
 
Not true, well not completely true. I hit full boost 24psi at 3000 rpm. It all comes down to the set up as well. Sometimes it would take 3200 but never has it taken 3600 rpm. That's rediculous for any 20g turbo. I had a stock block, and head besides 264/272 cams. I mean it may be slightly different for 1g owners due to lower compression pistons but I wouldn't think it would be that significant.

Anthony B.
 
Not true, well not completely true. I hit full boost 24psi at 3000 rpm. It all comes down to the set up as well. Sometimes it would take 3200 but never has it taken 3600 rpm. That's rediculous for any 20g turbo. I had a stock block, and head besides 264/272 cams. I mean it may be slightly different for 1g owners due to lower compression pistons but I wouldn't think it would be that significant.

Anthony B.

that's insane LOL my t25 barely spools 18psi at 3k haha and that's on a 20g?? :thumb: props
 
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