91-GS said:

Alcohol added to water will bring down it's boiling point.
Could just run water/meth injection system and spray pre-engine. That way you don't have to have dedicated timing system and can get away with having one nozzle instead of four.

Want something fun AND good on fuel? Get a motorbike. 50+ MPG and 4 second 0-60 MPH. Can't beat that!

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i like the meth injection, but its one of those things that causes wear and tear fast.
even on the exhaust you could probably get away with one injector depending on the manifold and turbo position.
i like bikes, but if i ever bought one it would be a dirt bike. i dont really think with the vehicles that are on the roads its safe. id love to ride, im sure. but man people really dont see those bikers. hell even on a regular bicycle, its dangerouse as hell. they say it illegal to ride on the sidewalks in the city. but ive seen 4 hit and runs on cyclists in the last 3 years.

Breezio69 said:

I didn't read the whole thread, but has anyone brought up the "remote turbo system"? That puts the turbo about 3/4 of the way down the exhaust... I think that failed years back... sounds like this is about down the same road.
Why not buy manifolds/ install kits that are plentiful for this platform? Isn't a cast log manifold like $150 for this thing.... another $75 in oil lines and fittings, maybe $400 for tuning and injectors.... sounds like more in test and fail in the long run than it would be to just jump in and do it the right way???

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reading the thead helps.... but ill catch you up. it has been decided the efficiency of is not there. i was just being creative. honestly, with as complicated as the system would be to design and get to function properly, i definitely would not invest the time on my eclipse.

if i invest on the eclipse, ill probably aim for about 12 psi. id run 2.0 head, port polished, machined and valves, springs, retainers, lifters and seals replaced. log manifold, cheapo turbo, regular oil lines, intercooler, intake piping, down pipe, 2.4 block with srt4 pistons and rods, get rid of A/c or convert an on-board air compressor. fuel injectors, fuel pump, and a good tune, probably another ecu and wiring harness made by hand. would provably get some other parts, throttle body, water pump, oil pump, individual coils for plugs, maybe an underdrive pulley or adjustable camshaft gears, maybe some custom grind cams. stock cams are pretty good though for what they are.

if i where to convert to alcohol, same thing pretty much except id use regular 2.4 pistons and get a specific gasket kit.

but im not all into the eclipse like that. im just fixing up mine for DD, and learning about these engines. im probably gonna sell the car in a couple months, but i have the access to some cheap parts so ill probably build an engine as described above and put it up for sale and try to make a little profit, or sit on it till the nest dodge comes along i can toss it in cheaply and make a profit.

Seamus said:

... dump the already heated water straight into the combustion chambers to "steamcharge" your car.

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That has been done before: Six stroke engine.

tryingtofixthis said:

i like the meth injection, but its one of those things that causes wear and tear fast.

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Not sure what you mean by this. Engines with water injection stay cleaner on the inside.
Decarbonizing engine with water. Although with this kind of injection a hydrolock becomes a real possibility.

tryingtofixthis said:

i definitely would not invest the time on my eclipse.

if i invest on the eclipse, ill probably aim for about 12 psi. id run 2.0 head, port polished, machined and valves, springs, retainers, lifters and seals replaced. log manifold, cheapo turbo, regular oil lines, intercooler, intake piping, down pipe, 2.4 block with srt4 pistons and rods, get rid of A/c or convert an on-board air compressor. fuel injectors, fuel pump, and a good tune, probably another ecu and wiring harness made by hand. would provably get some other parts, throttle body, water pump, oil pump, individual coils for plugs, maybe an underdrive pulley or adjustable camshaft gears, maybe some custom grind cams. stock cams are pretty good though for what they are.

if i where to convert to alcohol, same thing pretty much except id use regular 2.4 pistons and get a specific gasket kit.

but im not all into the eclipse like that. im just fixing up mine for DD, and learning about these engines. im probably gonna sell the car in a couple months, but i have the access to some cheap parts so ill probably build an engine as described above and put it up for sale and try to make a little profit, or sit on it till the nest dodge comes along i can toss it in cheaply and make a profit.

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I give up..

i dont think my car will catch on fire... but who knows? hasnt happened yet.

a spring valve is nmot that complicated. they make springs valves for hvac systyems that can do that exact thing. not much to reinventing to do, othe than size scale and pressure. springs work on some very basic principles.
radiator removes heat correct, heat exchange correct, this heat can be exchanged to nearby objects. usually the air ,molecules passing around it and the things its touching. hell i could run the upper radiator hose to the "res" that is jacketed an allows the coolant to pass across it. very simple solution.

steam charging isn't that elaborate since motors where originally powered by steam, and tons of turbines that run on steam alone, im sure they could also run on exhaust fumes. but if exhaust fumes were so efficient then why dont we use the coal smoke to turn our power generating turbines at power plants?

personally if i can think of a way to make one of these system correctly and efficiently i will just to prove you wrong. honestly i dont think you know as much as you think you do. when your trying to be so literal with your "physics" and "common sense" when the truth is stranger than fiction a lot of times. there are a lot of variables to take into account with each idea presented. you seem the be under the impression that the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. but really you dont know, no one here probably really knows. we will probably only really know if someone trys it. really had i known i would have got such negativity here i would have posted my thoughts elsewhere.

91-GS said:

Something like that has been done before: Six stroke engine.

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That is a little different from what I described. My idea is called the C.O.C.K cycle engine. Consumer Originated Combustion Killer.

[

91-GS said:

Not sure what you mean by this. Engines with water injection stay cleaner on the inside.
Decarbonizing engine with water. Although with this kind of injection a hydrolock becomes a real possibility.

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hydrolock is a definite possiblity. should really only start injecting one up to temp. all i can say is change the oil consistently if you run meth, oil contamination is a for sure thing, water , fuel and alchohol. some degradation to gaskets because of alcohol. methonal is rathercorrosive to aluminum, as well as the water. pistons tend to stay cleaner because more fuel is burned and power is increased. misses, bad A/f ratios, unburnt fuel and long overdue oil changes, and lack of fuel treatments lead to dirty engines.

tryingtofixthis said:

i dont think my car will catch on fire... but who knows? hasnt happened yet.

a spring valve is nmot that complicated. they make springs valves for hvac systyems that can do that exact thing. not much to reinventing to do, othe than size scale and pressure. springs work on some very basic principles.
radiator removes heat correct, heat exchange correct, this heat can be exchanged to nearby objects. usually the air ,molecules passing around it and the things its touching. hell i could run the upper radiator hose to the "res" that is jacketed an allows the coolant to pass across it. very simple solution.

steam charging isn't that elaborate since motors where originally powered by steam, and tons of turbines that run on steam alone, im sure they could also run on exhaust fumes. but if exhaust fumes were so efficient then why dont we use the coal smoke to turn our power generating turbines at power plants?

personally if i can think of a way to make one of these system correctly and efficiently i will just to prove you wrong. honestly i dont think you know as much as you think you do. when your trying to be so literal with your "physics" and "common sense" when the truth is stranger than fiction a lot of times. there are a lot of variables to take into account with each idea presented. you seem the be under the impression that the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. but really you dont know, no one here probably really knows. we will probably only really know if someone trys it. really had i known i would have got such negativity here i would have posted my thoughts elsewhere.

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Yea I sense a government grant coming your way or a job offer to head r&d at a major automotive manufacturer.

Even if your posts don't get one of the above, you shouldn't have any trouble getting private funding for you own engineering firm. With this last post it seems like you may have some possible solutions to the energy crisis as well.

Seriously it's one thing to post ideas and things but you are posting insane crap that is useless, and based off non sense. I'm not being closed minded. You posted on here that you didn't know why they don't make giant check valves to place in the exhaust of cars. You had some crazy series of pumps, heat exchangers and reservoirs made from a/c components to replace the simple hose that feeds oil to a turbo. And the whole time you showed over and over that you really don't understand what half the shit on a car does. Just because you can remove some bolts and replace a broken part on a car with another one doesn't make you an automotive expert.

I couldn't make up stuff this silly.

tryingtofixthis said:

[
hydrolock is a definite possiblity. should really only start injecting one up to temp. all i can say is change the oil consistently if you run meth, oil contamination is a for sure thing, water , fuel and alchohol. some degradation to gaskets because of alcohol. methonal is rathercorrosive to aluminum, as well as the water. pistons tend to stay cleaner because more fuel is burned and power is increased. misses, bad A/f ratios, unburnt fuel and long overdue oil changes, and lack of fuel treatments lead to dirty engines.

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Again you are posting crazy non sense. There is no danger of hydro locking a motor with water/meth injection. Do you realize how much water it takes to hydrolock a motor? A lot of guys on here use it as basically supplement fuel instead of knock Deterent. They dump a ton of meth/water on there motors with no prolems. Do you know what a water injection nozzle looks like? And how is oil contamination a sure thing? The little bit that is injected burns up. If gasoline contamination is not a problem on a properly sealing motor how is a fractional amount of water/meth going to be a contamination issue? And the meth isgoing to degrade gaskets and parts? It's not like someone is trying to daily drive a top fueler. Now you've jumped from posting crazy, goofy shit to flat out bad information that is in no way true. I doubt anyone would take anything you say as fact based on your posts, but posting incorrect tech info is no good.

I once talked to a man who claimed he had blueprints to a twin turbo charged engine that fit inside a backpack. V12, 2 turbos, 1200 hp.... the size of a backpack. He also ate raw hot dogs and walks around the streets of slc... claims his business partner stole his idea and invented it and made millions. Well, I havent seen a pint size v12 making 1200 hp yet. So I probably won't see a steam powered dsm any time soon either.

you just did make up all that stuff. i never said all my posts where connected, as you are implying. most all where indivual ideas, or building upon previous ideas but not necessarily the one directly preceding it.
i never said i was an engineer.
i never said i was an automotive expert.
i just know a few things, and know that im smart and rather creative.

"giant valves?" i dont think an exhaust manifold piping or even an exhaust pipe is very large at all like i said these types of vales already exist in Hvac building these valves would present no problem. i can do that. in fact that is probably the easiest and cheapest so thats what ill try to prove you wrong with.

as for the "energy crisis" is there really a crisis? or is our technology not advanced enough? i think if you believe in "energy crisis" you are a fool. there is a limitless supply of energy out there. the only "crisis" the earth is having or rather just starting, is overpopulation this is where the energy crisis comes from. and i dont have a problem with any people in particular, just the majority of the population who thinks its okay to have 3 or more children and not only be unable to afford it but also placing a burden on the world little by little. not the kids fault but the parents fault for not being a responsible or educated citizens of earth. my plan is only 2 children and only if i can afford and provide for them, and only after i turn 30. safe sex is easy. but there still seems to be a problem. yeah condoms dont feel good so pull out. you should hear my theory on drunk driving and most other repeat crimes that are bullshit, like soliciting, or stealing. i think we could solve a lot of shit with some public ass whoopings. obviously there should be some rules in regards to this but how many drunks you think would drive knowing if they get caught there gonna get there ass beat again on the side of the road and their car towed? its all about the pain and pleasure senses when it comes to humans. could you imagine the embarrassment of a shoplifter takeing a whooping in krogers, try and fight back and get zapped, and your ass beat harder.

Seamus said:

Do you realize how much water it takes to hydrolock a motor?

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Brought hydrolock up talking more about the decarbonizing technique since the amount of water is eyeballed most of the time. An actual injection system is regulated either by using a small valve or proper size nozzle.

Knows he's smart and creative.. Doesn't comprehend sarcasm.

tryingtofixthis said:

I think we could solve a lot of stuff with public ass whooping's

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Can the first be you ?

I'm under the impression none of your ideas will be beneficial because It's common sense that if you put wrap copper coolant lines around a 1000+ degree exhaust, the only thing it will do is heat up the coolant until (since we like to show off our ABCs)

A. The excessive heat in the coolant system causes pressure build up and you bust a hose or send a freeze plug shooting out the side of your block,

B. Coolant goes spraying all over the engine bay, comes in contact with anything of substantial heat, and bursts into flame.

C. Busts out through the heater core, catches something on fire inside the car, and toasts you like my morning biscuits.

At this point you might as well just route your exhaust right back into your intake.

You are going to prove me wrong by placing a giant check valve in you exhaust? That sounds awesome please keep me up today's on this project.

But first, what is this check valve going to do? What are you going to solve or improve with this?

Also as a general rule, you don't get to judge for yourself if pu are smart or creative. If that was the case, no one would take jobs in things like fast food or the army because everyone would think its below them. You know how everyone thinks their children and beautiful and well behaved? Well the truth is a lot of kids are brats and a lot of them are butt ugly.

I can be the first If I do something to deserve. But in my eye's a real man gets their ads beat at least once in their life. I've had my ass beat and I 've beat some ass. Can't say I didn't deserve it and the people I've

I'm not just gonna wire up some tubes and and call it hunky dorey good to go. That idea needs a lot more planing and thought


Valve Would mostly be useful on a turbo engine. On an N/a motor it should not close often and would probably give just a steadier idle and better exhaust flow. So mainly I believe it would help power a small bit or rather the torque probably will eat hp a bit. Should also help with gas mileage.

tryingtofixthis said:

I can be the first If I do something to deserve. But in my eye's a real man gets their ads beat at least once in their life. I've had my ass beat and I 've beat some ass. Can't say I didn't deserve it and the people I've

I'm not just gonna wire up some tubes and and call it hunky dorey good to go. That idea needs a lot more planing and thought


Valve Would mostly be useful on a turbo engine. On an N/a motor it should not close often and would probably give just a steadier idle and better exhaust flow. So mainly I believe it would help power a small bit or rather the torque probably will eat hp a bit. Should also help with gas mileage.

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Please explain how the valve is going to help. Enlighten me cause my simple mind isn't grasping it. And what does any of this have to do with someone smacking you around?

Whatever you guys are smoking send it my way...

A rear mounted turbo would never spool efficiently on such a small displacement engine, exhaust velocity and volume play a huge role here. As the exhaust travels through the system it is cooling down and slowing velocity, add in possible leaks and there just isn't enough volume to run a decent turbo. I guess you could use a small holset since they are designed to run on cooler exhaust temps but again the volume may not be there, wrapping the exhaust from manifold to the turbo would also help tons. Then again the extra distance the charge air has to travel will drop pressure by the time it reaches the intake.

The stand alone oil system isn't a terrible idea if done right. An electric pump would probably be the best way to go, the turbo would be connected to the hp side using a restrictor, with a reservoir of some sort right off the turbo drain. The pump would then pick up oil from the res. If you wanted to add an oil cooler it would be in between the turbo and hp side, don't forget you would need an oil filter as well, right off the pump before the cooler and turbo, also a restrictor, an extra oil pressure and a temp gauge would be needed to keep track of any issues. So while it "can" be done why would you want to go through all that?

Cooling the exhaust manifolds is done on marine engines for a completely different reason, there is nothing to gain from that especially on a turbo engine. Controlling combustion temps using meth is a whole 'nother story. Some one mentioned spraying water into the exh mani to create steam earlier, first of all if you mount nozzles on the exhaust manifold water will be boiling in the nozzles unless it was a pressurized system, think of the cooling system. Also you have a high probability of cracking the manifold.

A check valve on the exhaust?? where do I even begin.... The turbo essentially is a 'check valve' and creates all the back pressure you need (granted you have the right turbo for your application) why do you think dedicated drag racers run the exhaust right off the turbo out the front bumper? N/A cars are different, the exhaust is (or should) be built with velocity in mind. Ever wonder why a 3" pipe on a n/a 4 banger has no low end torque? velocity and volume.

I'm starting to think this dude is just trolling

You are missing 100 points in design theory. Excess enthalpy is what drives the system. Tons of variables along the way also and each one has to be considered. And yes I do have a degree in engineering. Outside the box is great but you're putting solutions out before even defining the problem if there even is a problem.

A collaboration with this guy would be epic:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/custom-fabrication/460133-rwd-4g63-subframe-mod.html

91-GS said:

Alcohol added to water will bring down it's boiling point.
Could just run water/meth injection system and spray pre-engine. That way you don't have to have dedicated timing system and can get away with having one nozzle instead of four.

Want something fun AND good on fuel? Get a motorbike. 50+ MPG and 4 second 0-60 MPH. Can't beat that!

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Woohoo! about 38mpg here, puts down 174whp after exhaust, power commander 5 and a tune. 0- in 3 seconds

I strongly suggest a bike. Then again, after the bike you get in your 650whp awd eclipse and go ehhhhhhh......its fast but...... . Getting jaded is the only downside of having a 2 wheeled rocked. Nothing seems fast afterwards

Btw, this post got bizarre. Im outta here.
OP: I wont be rude or pick on you but you need to do a bit more research. We're always looking for new ideas but yours seem off. At the very least. Best of luck in whatever you attempt and if you do, please make a build thread documenting everything.

tryingtofixthis said:

just bored throwing out a couple ideas something to talk about or think on.
...
just thinking about the best junkyard build
...
how common and cheap these are anyways.

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Do that in the Hangout please, not the newbie forum.
And watch your language / attitude / portrayal. Not everyone thinks DSMs are junk.

tryingtofixthis said:

there is advantages.
...
the main advantage to the idea is cooler temps at turbo exhaust

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Sooooo not an advantage...

tryingtofixthis said:

i guess i did phrase my self as ultimate junkyard engine
...
so i suppose it is a pointless venture for the average guy doing a turbo conversion.

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The average guy? I'd like to believe that the average member here still cares about their car and doing things the right way.

DeadlyAKrunna47 said:

these newbies post are quite entertaining.

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That's mildly inflammatory. There's always someone out there who can call the next guy to speak up a "noob". Let's keep it civil, even if we don't all approve.

tryingtofixthis said:

i like longevity as well as power.
...
i enjoy a devils advocate

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tryingtofixthis said:

brew my own fuel.

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tryingtofixthis said:

you should hear my theory on drunk driving and most other repeat crimes that are bullshit

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Twinturbo120 said:

I'm starting to think this dude is just trolling

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Nuzzi said:

Whatever you guys are smoking send it my way...
.

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Haha good post. I might have to do that.really I had not thought any of these ideas out. So what can I say?

No I was not trolling just bored and genuinely curious.
Dem aren't junk or wouldn't have bought one. Eclipses are cool cars.

I work 55 hours a.week sometimes I'm a little odd.

My only problem is only a few.Actually approached the thread in a friendly manner. This says something about the community here. You want uptight super specific lurkers. I can do that.

Not trying to bash you but that seems like a whole lot of excess for not much gain. also why sacrifice comfort for something that may not work?

tryingtofixthis said:

really I had not thought any of these ideas out. So what can I say?


My only problem is only a few.Actually approached the thread in a friendly manner. This says something about the community here. You want uptight super specific lurkers. I can do that.

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When incorrect and potentially dangerous information comes out, it needs to be corrected and sometimes that means a more direct approach needs to be used..Especially when one is determined to prove himself in a pride battle.


There is no specific way people are supposed to act or be on this site aside from being professional, having respect for other members and being able to take constructive criticism.

Regardless of what you think, the majority of us actually enjoy working hard on our cars in order to get that big smile at the end. We aren't being whipped by masters, miserably working by a book.

We all have our own unique ideas, we all put our own twist on our cars, but we all come to this sight to either share our knowledge or to gain knowledge and to connect with others that share the same passion.