Worried about my bottom end.

Boosted DSM 32 · Mar 10, 2014

Well over winter I decided to go balls out and build my car pretty stoutly. I plan on running the stock bottom end at least for a few moths until I can afford to build my spare block. My car should easily make 500awhp when I get tuned at buschur racing. And I wanted to get some opinions on what you guys think about that much power on the stock block. My motor has 110,00 miles on it but looks literally brand new inside. No smoke or anything. Another thing I'm worried about is the rpms spinning a bearing or breaking a rod... Here's my mod list for this season to give you an idea of what I'm working with. Car will be running e85.

Precision ball bearing 6262
Buschur 272 cams and buschur springs
Erl cast manifold
Tial 44 mm ex wg
ID 2000 injectors and walbro 450 e85 pump
Bushur built trans
Quartermaster twin disc
Ecmlink v3 with speed density
Huge fmic ect..

I thought about maybe getting new acl race bearings and freshening up the motor, but also thought why mess with what's not broken?

I'd like to hear some of your guys thoughts and what to do

1G Eclipse94928 · Mar 10, 2014

Boosted DSM 32 said:
Well over winter I decided to go balls out and build my car pretty stoutly. I plan on running the stock bottom end at least for a few moths until I can afford to build my spare block. My car should easily make 500awhp when I get tuned at buschur racing. And I wanted to get some opinions on what you guys think about that much power on the stock block. My motor has 110,00 miles on it but looks literally brand new inside. No smoke or anything. Another thing I'm worried about is the rpms spinning a bearing or breaking a rod... Here's my mod list for this season to give you an idea of what I'm working with. Car will be running e85.

Precision ball bearing 6262
Buschur 272 cams and buschur springs
Erl cast manifold
Tial 44 mm ex wg
ID 2000 injectors and walbro 450 e85 pump
Bushur built trans
Quartermaster twin disc
Ecmlink v3 with speed density
Huge fmic ect..

I thought about maybe getting new acl race bearings and freshening up the motor, but also thought why mess with what's not broken?

I'd like to hear some of your guys thoughts and what to do

whats the compression numbers? And I would take it easy and not try to push the bottom end, until you got it all built. 400-500 could be fine though there is no way to know. :thumb:

Boosted DSM 32 · Mar 10, 2014

1G Eclipse94928 said:
whats the compression numbers? And I would take it easy and not try to push the bottom end, until you got it all built. 400-500 could be fine though there is no way to know.

I haven't done one yet since the motor is still out waiting to paint the engine bay but I will be doing one soon as its in

T is for TURBO · Mar 10, 2014

I say run it and build a spare. Keep the tune conservative. With E-85 you may be temped to push the timing envelope, but on stock rods, I'd keep in hear stock levels.

curt-s · Mar 10, 2014

Do you have any idea what bottom end bearings are in there now?

OEM replacement bearings for near stock power levels do not have the same characteristics as aftermarkets meant for higher HP, and cannot take the forces that come from high intake pressures and volumes.

However, aftermarkets like ACL Race do not have the embeddability characteristics as non-"race" bearings, so you to ensure your oil supply is good and clean all the time otherwise your crank will take the brunt of debris instead of the bearing. This also means staying away from the oil filter bypass as much as possible (read: high oil pressure).

The stock rods will be good for a fair bit of power (lots of proof of this) if your tune is spot on, though. Lots of proof of that. Keep the timing smart, as ^ says.

jakelandry · Mar 10, 2014

I've pushed the stock bottom end of my jdm 6 bolt much farther than everyone said they could do. My car has made MULTIPLE 11 second passes with trap speeds around 130 for a solid year and a half now with no issues whatsoever. I've been through 56,60, and 62mm hx40s all at 30 psi on those passes with a cyclone intake mani so it makes decent torque which is what kills everything. Also I have run up to 40 psi without pushing coolant or breaking anything but I recomend not going over 30. Some of this may be in part due to the fact that the jdm 6bolt seems to be better quality overall. I could be wrong, but generally speaking the casting flaws are less severe in those motors.

curt-s · Mar 11, 2014

Now when you say "stock bottom end", how stock is it? Are you using an entirely OEM or OEM-style bottom end, down to balance shafts, belts, bearings, etc.? I believe this is where it gets murky in comparisons. Everybody has a different definition on what a stock bottom end could have, and what you can change before it no longer becomes stock.

Iron-wise, the stock crankshaft, rods, pistons, and wrist pins can take some pretty serious power before you need to go forged anything.

Boosted DSM 32 · Mar 11, 2014

sordid said:
Now when you say "stock bottom end", how stock is it? Are you using an entirely OEM or OEM-style bottom end, down to balance shafts, belts, bearings, etc.? I believe this is where it gets murky in comparisons. Everybody has a different definition on what a stock bottom end could have, and what you can change before it no longer becomes stock.

Iron-wise, the stock crankshaft, rods, pistons, and wrist pins can take some pretty serious power before you need to go forged anything.

Everything is bone stock with 110,000 miles on it. The only good thing is that it came out of a BONE stock car when I bought it the car I got it out of still had the factory intake on it. I also do have a balance shaft delete done. Took the oil pump apart and cleaned everything last winter too when I put the motor back I together.

T is for TURBO · Mar 11, 2014

jakelandry said:
I've pushed the stock bottom end of my jdm 6 bolt much farther than everyone said they could do. My car has made MULTIPLE 11 second passes with trap speeds around 130 for a solid year and a half now with no issues whatsoever. I've been through 56,60, and 62mm hx40s all at 30 psi on those passes with a cyclone intake mani so it makes decent torque which is what kills everything. Also I have run up to 40 psi without pushing coolant or breaking anything but I recomend not going over 30. Some of this may be in part due to the fact that the jdm 6bolt seems to be better quality overall. I could be wrong, but generally speaking the casting flaws are less severe in those motors.

JDM six bolt and the USDM 6bolt are the same bottom end/head

jakelandry · Mar 11, 2014

T is for TURBO said:
JDM six bolt and the USDM 6bolt are the same bottom end/head

I've ported 2 heads and the jdm one was considerably easier and much more symmetrical. Could have jus tbeen a coincidence, but I believe the ostar motor was also a jdm motor. Could also be a councidence.

jed344 · Mar 11, 2014

Don't be scared just smart. I am running a stock 7bolt bottom end with 170k miles at 25psi and low 400whp for over a year now.. But it is due for a build soon as i want go farther

Boosted DSM 32 · Mar 11, 2014

jed344 said:
Don't be scared just smart. I am running a stock 7bolt bottom end with 170k miles at 25psi and low 400whp for over a year now.. But it is due for a build soon as i want go farther

There's a big difference between 400 and 500 hp tho I'm positive it would make a lot more than 500 if I wanted it to but it would be a bomb. I pretty much just want the car to trap 130 mph ill be satisfied with that. With those trap speeds your going to own most cars you line up against

brisvr4 · Mar 12, 2014

I've been trapping around 130 on a 165000 mile stock bottom end 6 bolt for a few years now.
No idea what power it's making but it's in a VR4 so there must be a decent amount there!
I tend to keep the afr a little on the fat side just to be safe and tune for zero knock.

LandSpeed-DSM · Mar 12, 2014

Boosted DSM 32 said:
There's a big difference between 400 and 500 hp tho I'm positive it would make a lot more than 500 if I wanted it to but it would be a bomb. I pretty much just want the car to trap 130 mph ill be satisfied with that. With those trap speeds your going to own most cars you line up against

Torque figures are a better indication of "stress" than HP.

If we are making the assumption that we are working with a healthy specimen.. Keep it on a steady diet of stable fuel and quality oil of a weight that meets your pressure requirements. That simple approach combined with a clean tune will take you much farther on any engine/platform than 95% of "car guys" seem to understand.

Heat and Knock are your enemies - do what you can to manage and minimize them.

Boosted DSM 32 · Mar 12, 2014

LandSpeed-DSM said:
Torque figures are a better indication of "stress" than HP.

If we are making the assumption that we are working with a healthy specimen.. Keep it on a steady diet of stable fuel and quality oil of a weight that meets your pressure requirements. That simple approach combined with a clean tune will take you much farther on any engine/platform than 95% of "car guys" seem to understand.

Heat and Knock are your enemies - do what you can to manage and minimize them.

Ya that's exactly why I'm taking the car to buschur hes great at tuning and won't push anything more than what he knows it can do. I have a good fmic and with e85 I don't think heat will be much of an issue and with that turbo it won't be too torquey which should help also

sbengineering · Mar 12, 2014

Being loose and older that motor will definitely make some power and run good for a while. Loose motors always make more power. However, with the added fuel coming in and bigger cams you will start to see the rings wear down quicker. So enjoy it but keep in mind it's life is temporary.

JusMX141 · Mar 12, 2014

Boosted DSM 32 said:
There's a big difference between 400 and 500 hp tho I'm positive it would make a lot more than 500 if I wanted it to but it would be a bomb. I pretty much just want the car to trap 130 mph ill be satisfied with that. With those trap speeds your going to own most cars you line up against

500whp stock bottom end DSM:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/461920-492hp-hy35-dyno.html

550whp stock bottom end Evo (still had balance shafts!):

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/463675-playing-w-my-evo-dyno-550-awhp-pump-gas-hy35.html

The Evo trapped 127mph in that form with snow tires on....both cars using a cast 54/78mm compressor versus your PTE's 62/82mm billet wheel.

Your tune and driving are going to be the only limiting factor keeping you from either making 500whp or trapping 130mph.

Boosted DSM 32 · Mar 16, 2014

JusMX141 said:
500whp stock bottom end DSM:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/461920-492hp-hy35-dyno.html

550whp stock bottom end Evo (still had balance shafts!):

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/463675-playing-w-my-evo-dyno-550-awhp-pump-gas-hy35.html

The Evo trapped 127mph in that form with snow tires on....both cars using a cast 54/78mm compressor versus your PTE's 62/82mm billet wheel.

Your tune and driving are going to be the only limiting factor keeping you from either making 500whp or trapping 130mph.

Wow those are some impressive numbers on the stock bottom end! I know David buschur is very very good with his tuning and won't go farther than what he's comfortable with so the tune should be an issue. I'm just going to have to not beat the crap out of the car all the time LOL

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Worried about my bottom end.

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Boosted DSM 32

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Boosted DSM 32

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