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Auto transmission sluggish and shifts whenever it wants, NO CODES

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Jarnutt

10+ Year Contributor
85
1
Sep 21, 2009
Peoria, Arizona
I searched and searched for the last week and haven't found a problem that sounds like mine that has had a solution yet. This is my first post, I'm not new to turbo or import tuning, but this IS my first DSM, and the automatic transmission and AWD might be a bit much for me to tackle alone. My problem is that the car drives fine at highway speeds, downshifts hard from a 45mph roll and hauls ass when you punch it WOT. HOWEVER, it drags ass on the bottom end, the previous owner chalked it up to turbo lag since its a stock turbo and a huge front mount with an automatic. The best I can describe it, it its like accelerating with the Ebrake pulled, and then suddenly it takes off like a rocket about 30 or 40mph. From a roll it sometimes decides to shift into second gear right after you start moving, if I choose to shift it manually (L to 2 to D), it will still drag ass to get moving, sometimes, other times it takes off fine and shifts fine, even under part throttle, normal driving, it sometimes shifts at the normal shift points, or it will out of nowhere decide to shift into second at about 10 mph and then 3rd at about 20mph. Overdrive works perfectly fine, and I don't feel or see the tranny slipping at all, the engine doesn't rev up, it just drags ass to get up there, and I'm fully boosted the whole time, its literally like having the E brake pulled. Also I've noticed that when it DOES decide to drive normally (ish) under part throttle acceleration from a light or stop, I feel it surging a bit, almost like its pulling timing or like someone was pulling on the E brake softly, I'm familiar with that feeling from my other turbo car when the boost solonoid went bad it kept pulling boost and the car would kind of lunge under part throttle. I have no codes in either the ecu or tcu, just a steady short pulse, its pissing me off. I'm clueless to DSM cars as far as their quirks go, but any help would be greatly appreciated. We pulled the pan to change the leaky gasket when the new motor went in, as the stock motor had thrown a rod, and there is no metal at all in the transmission, fluid is clean and red, and flushed it anyways. I had never driven this car until the new motor went in, so I dont know if the blown motor had the same issues or not.
 
I unplugged the solenoid harness and checked resistance to the trans (ground) and Im getting 27ohms on the Orange wire, 27ohm on the yellow wire, 18ohms on the red/blk, and 8ohm on the blk/blu. Colors might be off a bit since the wires are a bit stained and faded. I thought all four solenoids had the same resistance? Arent they 3ohm solenoids? just a thought.
 
I might be a little out of my league here since I'm new to DSM's, but I've had recent transmission issues that have forced me to do a hell of a lot of research. I figured I'd at least try to help. I found an overhaul manual for my trans, so I decided to see if there was one for yours. If I'm right, I believe you have a W4a33. If so, maybe this will help http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mabender/pdf/atoh3.pdf

This manual for my trans, really helped me eliminate some things, even though I have yet to find my issue :banghead: LOL

Have you checked your pulse generators? From what I read, those being bad can cause some abnormal shifting. I could be completely wrong, but just a thought.

P.S. - Typhoon *drool* that has always been a dream car of mine.
 
Yeah I thought about pulse generators, but it doesn't make sense, if I unplug the battery for a few hours, it shifts fine for a while then goes back to shifting funny.

P.s. If you've ever thought of buying a typhoon, put 10k on the ground and burn it, that what you would have wasted on that bucket. And if you already own one, just burn your whole wallet, cause that's what its going to cost you o upkeep it. $800 for front shafts, $200 for wheel bearings on each wheel, $300 differential clutches. And that was all wigthin 8 months.
 
Well, with my limited knowledge the next thing I would say was a bad TCU, but I'm pretty sure you said you already checked that. Good luck with the trans issue. While I'm still looking for solutions to my issue I'll keep an eye out for something that might help you. I hope the overhaul manual I linked helps a little.

P.S. - I think you just did the equivalant of telling me santa isn't real :cry:
 
I do believe that the op is very educated in mechanical issues, yet you doubt and still remain set on a torque converter? I doubt that.

I can say this, because I too am having the exact down to the T, identical problems.

Like your randomness of issues, I too am at a loss. My solution, witch may not be a solution at all, consists of ordering a roadsurge control box. This will seemingly take away all computer interference, giving me accurate data on just my shift solenoids.

If indeed this does fix my issue, I will update with my findings. I'm going to attempt to add ipt's shift firmness controller up to this setup. That way i don't burn my pump up going at slow speeds.
To my understanding I will also be able to install paddle shifters with direct control over everything.
The obvious coolness factor of doing this is their. It will also allow for me to add another cup holder that will actually hold a modern day coffee mug. I'm no slouch but i like my big coffee mugs.

Also the obvious, it'll be nice to have a car that drives good or better than factory again.

To those who need more reading material, here is a link to my problem thread.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/401135-automatic-questions.html
 
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The box has not fixed my issues. It only allows me to shift to the gears that aren't sluggish, 1st and second, then to 4th.

After talking with a few people, it seems it may be my seals on the solenoids may have blew out and need replacing, as soon as i can find the part numbers, I'll be having a transmission shop install this.
 
Any update on this?
I have a similar issue.:banghead:

I see you gave up and are now selling the car:banghead:

Telling the potential buyer that it is a blown solenoid seal without actually confirming that is the problem is very sketchy buddy:nono:
 
Hey guys, pretty new to this forum: 1993 Eagle Talon TSI AWD Automatic

My question is, have you or any other with these shift problems/automatic problems had any resolution because i just rebuilt my engine and had my transmission rebuilt by TMZ performance and i am having a really sluggish problem from a dead stop. The engine is running great at idle with no engine light.

But when i put her in drive she has no power. Reverse works great and when in Drive its sluggish up til about 2500 to 3000 then it gets power and drives normally.

Any ideas? Again, i have a rebuilt transmission with an autozone rebuilt torque converter, redline transmission fluid.

Also can anyone send post a picture of their connectors on the transmission. I think i might one or two on wrong because a couple of them look the same.
 
On a 13g you should have power by about 2 grand or so.

Not seeing any kind of tune or tuning device in your profile,id have to say your also on the stock auto ecu?

All those mods and no tune thats a :nono:
 
I am working on getting the ECMlink V3. Need to save up some cash because the engine and transmission ate my wallet up. Got the LC1 wideband kit, but have not put it in yet. Wanna get the ECM Link first.
 
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Limp mode is what im suspecting.Limp mode has to deal with the tcu.You should still have 1st,and 2nd gear..As well as having reverse,thats also a manual gear.So putting the shifter in 1,2 and reverse all should work normally..

There is two different tcus in the auto 1g cars.A 3 plug tcu and a 2 plug(plug meaning connectors).

On top of the auto trans there should be a connector with 3 wires.Blue,orange,and yellow with blue tracer.Make sure thats plugged in.As well as the connectors on the tcu itself which is behind the radio pocket.There is also one connector which goes to the shifter which puts the car into 4th gear(OD),so dont forget that one too.


So Check the connectors first.Then try the manual gears,If 1st and second work normaly.Your probably looking at just swapping another tcu,and the car should work normally.
 
Ok, so i didn't have a chance to mess with it today but i will check the plugs to make sure the colors match on both side of connectors and will check the connectors on my TCU as well.

As far as when i tried to drive it. I went through all the gears and they do move the car, just not very much from a dead start. Reverse seems to work the best with instant power, no sluggish symptoms for the most part. Again i will check the plugs tomorrow after work and see what i find. Thanks for the inputs.

Is the transmission even shifting? Sounds like its stuck in 3rd gear (aka: limp mode)

As for the connectors, match the plugs with corresponding wire colors.

Yes the transmission shifts, but only after i hit power which is around 2500 to 3000 RPM. Very sluggish up tip then, just seems abnormal.

Ok guys, your advice on the plugs worked. The transmission is working flawlessly with immediate response to throttle. Shifts great and all. Thanks for your inputs.

I have to tweak the timing because its missing a little. Haven't done that since the first start 2 days ago. Either way I'm not driving it yet either.

You guys have any suggestions on fuel pressure setting for FIC 750 CC injectors? I think i set it to 50 PSI for now. Again thank you for your help.
 
You guys have any suggestions on fuel pressure setting for FIC 750 CC injectors? I think i set it to 50 PSI for now. Again thank you for your help.

Until you install DSMLink (or edit the factory code) there is nothing you can do with the 750cc injectors.

When you do you'll need to decide if you want to run the factory base fuel pressure or the industry standard 43.5 psi (3bar) base and tell DSMLink you have changed the fuel pressure.
 
oK, sounds good. I will just wait until i get tuned before i mess with anything else.

For now i will ensure all the pre-requisites are done prior to tuning IE:
Checking boost leaks, Timing, Compression Tests, and all the other basic steps prior to ECM Link and Tuning.
 
im going to open this thread back up, im having the same exact problem as jarnut, im also a mechanic and have done the things he has before seeing this thread. end clutches, ipt valve body, tps. im going to keep this alive until we figure it out, or if someone can direct me to a thread that has an answer by posting it on this.

anyway my next thing to try is a speed sensor and the pulse sensors. i will see if this works out and reply to this post
 
I actually sold this car years ago BECAUSE of this issue, after a full rebuild (drum/band/TC all new) it didn't change anything, sold it cheap priced to sell, person who bought it pulled the trans and replaced it with an auto from a wrecked same year and that fixed everything, so obviously the issue was in the trans itself, either a sensor or something unrelated to the hard parts replaced in a normal rebuild INCLUDING TC. Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure, but it turned me off DSMs for a while
 
I actually sold this car years ago BECAUSE of this issue, after a full rebuild (drum/band/TC all new) it didn't change anything, sold it cheap priced to sell, person who bought it pulled the trans and replaced it with an auto from a wrecked same year and that fixed everything, so obviously the issue was in the trans itself, either a sensor or something unrelated to the hard parts replaced in a normal rebuild INCLUDING TC. Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure, but it turned me off DSMs for a while


well im gonna keep this post alive and see if i can find that gremlin and kill it!!
 
Honestly I know a very small amount amount the DSM auto. But what springs to mind from college and the trans dyno one of the other guys used to test his self-rebuilt trans is: sticking servos/pistons, bad seals on servos/pistons/solenoids, debris in the valve body, bad check balls, faulty electrical or a bad tcu. I know thats a broad range. This particular fellow didn't do a great job of a clean install and suffered debris clogging many passages, and had to do the rebuild twice.

Debris in the valve body seems right since it's random, BUT if unplugging the battery fixes the problem for a short while, the tcu may be taking a certain amount of cycles to duplicate the issue as it adjusts it's learn (once again idk if the you has this capacity).

Replacing the tcu or using an aftermarket shift box would be one way of eliminating that issue, but one person already said that didn't fix a similar problem. That leads me to a solenoid/seal issue, since slipping doesn't seem prominent.

I know there's a good amount of hard to locate/diag. seals in these transmissions, and any one of them could have a flaw that only occasionally presents, then is stuck there till the tcu is reset, possibly changing pressure etc for a short time.

Just brainstorming.
 
Honestly I know a very small amount amount the DSM auto. But what springs to mind from college and the trans dyno one of the other guys used to test his self-rebuilt trans is: sticking servos/pistons, bad seals on servos/pistons/solenoids, debris in the valve body, bad check balls, faulty electrical or a bad tcu. I know thats a broad range. This particular fellow didn't do a great job of a clean install and suffered debris clogging many passages, and had to do the rebuild twice.

Debris in the valve body seems right since it's random, BUT if unplugging the battery fixes the problem for a short while, the tcu may be taking a certain amount of cycles to duplicate the issue as it adjusts it's learn (once again idk if the you has this capacity).

Replacing the tcu or using an aftermarket shift box would be one way of eliminating that issue, but one person already said that didn't fix a similar problem. That leads me to a solenoid/seal issue, since slipping doesn't seem prominent.

I know there's a good amount of hard to locate/diag. seals in these transmissions, and any one of them could have a flaw that only occasionally presents, then is stuck there till the tcu is reset, possibly changing pressure etc for a short time.

Just brainstorming.


well before i rebuilt my valvebody i had the problem, then i cleaned the crap out of it, and installed a shift kit, nothing sticking and everything moving freely, i still had the same problem. also i replaced the tcu and had the same issue a few miles down the road

i came across these awhile ago and im gonna read through the diagnosis article to see if i can find my issue,

MECHANICAL REBUILD AND OVERHAUL - http://www.atdsm.com/pdf/atoh3.pdf

ELECTRICAL DIAGNOSIS - https://www.scribd.com/doc/25329546/Auto-Trans-Diagnosis
 
well i found this, and it seems that maybe replacing them might help the issue, even though im not getting a check engine light these might be dirty due to being a magnet sensor, so i will start by cleaning them, and if that dont work i will replace them and see.

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Keep us updated please after cleaning. My vss jumps around and I THINK it could have something to do with it but my vss is inside the speedometer on my 1ga.
 
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