boosted240
15+ Year Contributor
- 478
- 13
- Dec 25, 2006
-
ocean city,
Maryland
Well by balance I meant safety concern vs getting shit done. I didn't really explain that well, not like f/r balance. Although the stock dsm weight distribution is so terrible I can't imagine you could make it worse. It has allot to do with where you put the weight, you can set the thing pretty far back and low if you are fabricating the whole thing.
I also think the whole dsm drivetrain is heavier than you are giving it credit for, I don't think a big block 1g will be much heavier than stock. I know I'm gonna get chewed for that but if you strip the accessories and all the huge iron/steel crap off these engines they are not that bad really. Minimal accessories and aluminum intake manifold and especially heads and it's on par with an all iron small block.
The bigger comparison for mustangs is that its just easier to use a 351 with the same bellhousing. It's all much more bolt on. If you are talking custom stuff and like with like I don't think it's more expensive to build a powerful big block. Take a look at Scott's website I referenced. There's a spectrum of proven builds using stock ported iron and up for different price ranges.
As far as building a real 10 sec car there's allot more to it than just the engine. If you make a bunch of torque you gotta put it to the ground somehow, everyone likes to argue all the mods you need to get traction with big block torque. How would you not need that with 10 psi on a 5.0? I've done it myself both ways, 500+ ft lbs in a stock fox is gonna blaze the tires regardless of how you make it. A giant electric motor would still need the same supporting mods on the chassis and suspension so that's not really something you can argue.
I already said I thought about this and didn't do it. I agree the 4g rocks. Nothing wrong with using that rwd either. I am only insisting on him continuing with the big block because its what he really wanted to do and I think it will work.
If you really want to dig into it though, at the higher power levels the sheer difference in stress needed to boost a 2.0l engine to the same output vs a 7.5l one is crazy. Not to mention one of the simplest and useful mods for a 460 is stroking the hell out of it. The block is huge and bore/stroke is way over square unlike almost every other big production engine. You can easily bump this engine to 557ci or 9.2l. Right there you need to stress a 2.0l engine, lets say a 2.3 for a fair stroked for stroked comparison, 4x harder. A 351 1.6x more. At levels that are really leaning on these other engines you are not even stressing a 460. So then if you wanted to apply this whole fancy turbo + electronics business on that base, where does that take you? I know you are gonna say a 4g can go well over 1000hp too and you are absolutely right but that is a very high level, expensive , high maintenance engine. Before all the aftermarket cranks/blocks guys in the 60's were using partial block fills on stock blocks and cranks and making 1400+ hp on nitro with these engines. Most of the hp is made in the head/turbo/nitrous system. Making power isn't even so much about the base engine at all, getting the engine to hold it without ripping itself apart when you lean on it is the major qualification for a performance engine in my mind. There's not many stockers that can do this. The 385 series big block, 4g63, 2jz, ls. It's a short list. Once you get past a certain point I honestly think the hp/$ ratio is in favor of a nitrous ls/big block ford.
I wasn't comparing the safety of an old car vs this build, I was just saying look at it from a relative point of view. It's sort of hysterical that this specific community is harping on the safety so much. More of a pot calling the kettle black kind of a thing. The irony of that is just killing me, don't take it personally either way, I just find most stuff funny. I am not defending the structure he has built either mind you. I said specifically what I agree needs to be changed. I'm essentially not disagreeing with any of the constructive criticism that has been given already.
I can empathize with getting fed up with not having your advice taken. It's another one of those funny little life things though, you can only really control yourself, meaning give advice because you want to give advice. It's not really the other persons fault if you are offended if they don't take it, you did what you could do so feel good about that, the rest of his experience in this is on him. Right now I have no idea if anything I am saying is going to change anything, its ok if it doesn't. Its not like my saying nothing at all was going to prevent him from continuing if that is his will. I simply saw allot of energy and enthusiasm and allot of good advice going on here that sort of all took a rather shitty turn, I don't think it needs to be that way so I'm giving it a go.
I won't ever discourage anyone from doing something even if I do think it's crazy. I will explain my point of view but being completely negative with no real content or use is just sort of a waste of life. It's my opinion that experimenting and learning and creating are some of the most essential qualities of being human.
Were just gonna all agree that ## an idiot and just stop reading ## post at the first dumb thing we read. Lucky for us u thinkin that a big block dsm wouldnt weigh much more then stock, came early in ## post.
forums the 460 big block weighs 720lbs, i guess it makes sense stripped down from accessories youd be down to the 640 you say. They also mentioned a 351 Windsor is about 525lbs. Now remember, even they would take the lighter motor setup. I did read your previous post and would like to mention that even if he hard filled that big block and went nitrous etc. and made a magical 1400 hp, i doubt that "chassis" he has could handle the torque on launch, etc. it would crumble. Now i would be willing to bet you though, i could pull off 900hp anyday for less than big iron block 460 dollar for dollar. Also i think we would not even need that much horsepower to smoke a rwd big block dsm, considering a 1g properly built and setup will have less weight with a 4g63 with say about 600hp realstically. This is all speculation and im sleepy 
. Your just never gonna learn. Please delete this bullshit.
???? In an engineering perspective, please enlighten me how this is a safe built cage and the purpose of these bars. 1st: The bars that connect the dash bar to the main hoop have no purpose other than add unnecessary weight, they don't do anything. 2nd: What kind of square tubing you using for the firewall and trans support ? As per NHRA rules, all tubes need to be a certain outer diameter and thickness diameter.. You still oblivious to the fact you keep going at it very wrong...
