Today received brand new KELFORD cams and put the cams into head without valves. found BOTH camshafts moving in journals!..I can Waddle with both camshafts when sitting in head journals!! which is really big problem..!I wanted spin this engine/head to 10k rpms with boost up to 50psi! When I put upper part of bearing..its Caps and tight to specs I can´t move with the camshafts! That means once I tighten the caps the camshaft gets twisted and gets stuck in head journals. I can see irregular wear on the journals..maybe thats the part of issue.. On journals there is like 1cm / 20°-30° area where cams journal not touching head journal.. you can see polished/bright parts of head journals (camshaft journals was touching this parts..Interface) and dark ones, the ones where camshaft journal not touched.. Of course the right situation is 360deg interface/contact

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRoO6494bcw]Camshafts waddle in heads journals - YouTube[/ame]

Did that head come from a running car?

I would not use it. I had an issue with my caps/journals that was far less significant than that this summer and it was trashed at my machinists insistence.

Has that cyl head been overheated?

Looks like the head was extremely over heated and distorted the cam journals.

One of 2 things can be done at this point.

1) Line bore the head
2) Junk it and start over

If you can not install the cams with out the followers and spin the cams with your finger tips, you have bad issues.

bought from ebay..
Curt Brown 1g 6 Bolt Racing Cylinder Head DSM 4g63 | eBay
from DSMer... said the head got 2500miles after build.. without issues..
BTW its Curt Brown built head..

First off its on service limit as for height..well just under.. and need another resurface to get rid of dents between comb chambers(caused by MLS HG..
not sure about straightness..not sure if was overheated..

Hopefully Ebay resolve this in my favor..

Thanks guys!
Venca

Have it checked for warp. We have a fixture to apply pressure to a head to get the cams to turn then we surface it flat sometimes the head will be warped after. This is so when the engine is assembled the cams will turn in the head. That being said it might be best to swap everything to a different casting.

Ebay auction says seller is getting rid of head because he wants to go with an 0-ring setup. That tells me he was hurting head gaskets which means he probably overheated it and warped it. Maybe he didn't know the head was warped and just ran it like that. However why not O-ring the current head or block?

Dont see Curt name on the head. He does mark them and they have oem valve seals on them.

Locally no access to this tools.. can´t meassure warp.. all in all.. journals are twisted like PIG

fun kart kid said:

Have it checked for warp. We have a fixture to apply pressure to a head to get the cams to turn then we surface it flat sometimes the head will be warped after. This is so when the engine is assembled the cams will turn in the head. That being said it might be best to swap everything to a different casting.

Click to expand...

danl said:

Ebay auction says seller is getting rid of head because he wants to go with an 0-ring setup. That tells me he was hurting head gaskets which means he probably overheated it and warped it. Maybe he didn't know the head was warped and just ran it like that. However why not O-ring the current head or block?

Click to expand...

Asked him why he sell this head and he wrote, want get money to build short block..so there are two answers on one question..
Actually not sure if he knew head is junk..

I hope you can get this resolved with ebay. Also some shops bolt the head down to a plate and put them in an oven to fix warp. So there may be options yo get it fixed

nitrouskris said:

Dont see Curt name on the head. He does mark them and they have oem valve seals on them.

Click to expand...

Talked with Curt Brown about this ebay auction..sent him link and told me its his head, but not sure who ordered nor what was done to the head.. There is label on water blanking panel, plus all the oil plugs were removed and assmebled with some brown sealant.

Thanks guys
Venca

fun kart kid said:

I hope you can get this resolved with ebay. Also some shops bolt the head down to a plate and put them in an oven to fix warp. So there may be options yo get it fixed

Click to expand...

I don´t trust in this head anymore... I was able not care about head height measured 5.151" to 5.159" vs mitsu limit 5.193"!!!!! few known people told me no problem run it... but warped journals is way too much for my taste.

Venca

5.156 thickness + kelford 272 Cams = Bent valves on start up

Head is junk, 5.170 is about the absolute thinnest you can go. With a small cam at most, more preferred would be a stock rod set up,

Not one you are looking to get big numbers from.

Best of luck getting your money back.

Cant believe Curt would put OEM seals on a performance head when GSC or Supertech cost less. I also talked to him via FB and he started to mark his heads of lastyear

nitrouskris said:

Cant believe Curt would put OEM seals on a performance head when GSC or Supertech cost less. I also talked to him via FB and he started to mark his heads of lastyear

Click to expand...

Kris... I doubt the head is the same as when CB sent it out his door.

Just too much wrong, the seals can simply be explained away by a customer providing them when the head was sent in to be done.

The head thickness is the big thing, as it sits it is showing around 5.15X

Whats wrong with OEM seals? They have been great for me. Also, if it wasn't for the cam journals, you can run a thicker head gasket if its been machined too much. Every motor should be clay'd with solid lifters. You just never know where your going to end up with the different piston, cam, valve combos out there.

With that said, I think the previous owner at least had a clue something was wrong when he sold it and the OP deserves his money back. The current head in my car blew the HG at the track, I drove it home, almost made it too, got to 260 deg F and I had to shut it down. Only required a resurfacing and its back on the car making power.

You simply don't sell good engine parts, to do an engine build as the seller states. Unfortunately DSM'ers have a reputation for selling clapped out parts which makes it all the harder for the honest guy to get a fair price when selling good parts.

Nothing is wrong with the OE seals. They just have a lower temp rating than the Vition Blue seals I like to use.

To get the head back close to an OE thickness, the gasket would have to be in the .080 thickness range. Even thicker now the head need to be surfaced again due to the fire ring dig, so it could end up needing as much as .100 thick.
Now on a stock build you may get by with that, now the Head gasket surface is thinner and now weaker and will distort with heat and load.

That would kill what bit of quench area the 4g has, not to mention dropping the CR to lower than stock

Now with how much teeter totter the cam has, someone knew the head was junk.

Thanks for all the inputs

Just escalated this case into resolution center There is 48hrs for ebay to resolve.

Another point is I transported this head over sea to me to Czech hrepublic, I paid 210.39 USD (4321.52 CZK ) to ship this head over sea to Czech republic, then paid 1200 CZK /57.15USD for customs duty.. and I want refund this expenditures for sure in full . so hopefully ebay resolve this case in my favor..
wish me good luck guys..

Venca

Just received email from ebay resolution center..

"Hello Vaclav ,
I’m writing you today regarding the Curt brown 1g 6 bolt racing cylinder head dsm 4g63 (item #281205990202) that you bought from the seller kurtiscain. I want you to know that we are here to protect you and will do so to the best of our abilities within our buyer protection program.
My name is Brad and I want to thank you for your patience. I apologize for not being able to respond to your email sooner. We have been experiencing a high volume of emails and we are trying to get to each of them as soon as possible.
As you may have noticed your case has been closed and a refund will not be issued due to the following reason:
-- You had the cylinder head re-shipped after initial delivery to the third party shipper.
-- The payment was no made through the eBay Checkout system to be covered by eBay Buyer Protection.
As you re-shipped the item after the initial delivery was made, your case has been closed. Please keep in mind that eBay cannot hold the seller accountable if the item becomes lost or damaged when being re-shipped. This includes forwarding companies."


Yeaaaah the fraudlent seller sold crap head and they care I shiped this head over sea using forwarding copany.. yeaahhhh that the reason head is 5,151" height and warped journals.. jeez...
hate this people such a seller.. DSMer screwed another DSMer

What a wonderfull world.

Thanks for time and help guys.

Venca