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Lost 1st 2nd and REVERSE A/T gurus come in pls

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MarsaGSX

15+ Year Contributor
487
29
Feb 15, 2004
Czech republic,, Europe
Hi Guys.. this weekend just finished my M/T to A/T swap in Sunday.

Same day was on test drive and all worked L-1st,2-2nd, D- 3rd and switched OD, of course Reverse worked too..

in Monday was on another test drive. before she warmed I was just gentle on her.., later came to crossroad for long straight..and went into 1st.. floor it and short shifted to 2nd and 3rd.. shifted at about 5k rpms....was pretty cool.. really how fast she shifted without any slowing between shifts.. then just let off and coasted. Stoped car on another crossroad to turn car back and go home .. but no Reverse.. well.. shifted 1st and nothing..2nd nope.. was pita push the car alone with welded center diff.. Back home went on 3rd and OD..

anyone know what happend.. Huh

my mods on trans..
2G w4a33 w 4solenoids
manually shifted w oem shifter
Iam using M/T harness and kigglys wirings.. then found another write up for 2Gs..
2g Kiggly shifter mod : I folowed this 2G how to.. but did not connected Starter signal..cus car won´t crank..
Precision Industries TC
Kiggly front clutch, Kigglys 2g to 6B kit
IPT end clutch
Translab Tl175 shift kit(set for firm shifting almost on full)
welded center/ no VC
Dexron 6 fluid
BaM cooler 11*10*1.5/ no fan yet and cooler wasn´t hot at all.. I had my hand on it without isues..without pain

Have to say the trans was pretty clean inside.. and both clutch discs from front and end clutch were okay.. no signs of excessive wear..discs looked like new.. trans should have only 50-70k miles..

Today added fluid up to very end of white dipstick.. no change
Then removed big plug from lever and meassure 12v and ground both okay..
then checked diods and all 4 works correctly.. then meassured Voltage on yellow/orange(solenoids) wires.. and I can say they receiving right Voltage.. in 1st both 12V 12V 2nd gear 0V 12V in third both 0V etc.. Of course I cant say solenoids are working.. did not checked them???

KeelesKustome told me :
If everything worked for 5 miles, you had it all done correctly, otherwise it wouldn't work at all. Sounds like you may have fried the diodes, I used radio shack. 1.5 with no issues.

Although you may have something else at play. The gear selector for Reverse is manual and has nothing to do with wireing. So if you don't have reverse, you lost fluid pressure because the o ring blew, or your low on fluid.

Right now just removed Valve body from trans.. Can someone point me what to check on it.. Iam blind in auto trans thing..

Thanks a LOT
Venca
 
Over 50people and no single reply..:sosad:

Disassembled VB and found only one strange thing.. two valves were stuck in their bores.. was hard to get them out.. the rest of valves was much easier remove..

checked my solenoids.. put in my mouth and flew .. once I give them power source they open/click and once I disconnect them they close.. no flow threw them.

My O-ring betwenn VB and case is still there..

thinking if I could make any mistake during end clutch/front clutch/removing VC and welding CD... is it possible make mistake durring installing those parts so Iam loosing oil press in 1s,2nd , Reverse? 3rd and OD still working:confused:
 
VB is back and no change.. still workingh only 3rd and OD..
Not sure what can cause this..where she can leak??
removed oil pump cus of Front clutch upgrade,end clutch and Viscous coupler w welded center diff.

BTW guys are you affraid of me? cus Iam from Czech republic?? NO Iam not Russian..We got democracy here.. no Comunism??
77 people saw this thread and no1 got any point.. any input..
Iam really losted now:banghead::confused::cry:
 
When you pulled the oil pump and front clutch assembly did you reinstall it properly back into the case to align with the oil pressure port in the case? Did you check the connection of the two pulse generators? Did you actually use a multimeter and ohm out the solenoids?
 
Hi Tim :) thx for reply..
As for oil pump..The car was running for about 10miles without any issue..anyways if remember correctly there is no chance put oil pump back wrong.. its align with bolt holes..

Iam not using TCU, Iam shifting with kiggly wirings for Manu-matic Using Diodes.. and yes I check them and they are right position.

as for solenoids.. I just give them 12V source and neg and flew threw them w my mouth.. once I give them power, I can flow threw..and they click too

I got new Find
Tried disconnect solenoid connector while engine running and 1st gear IN.. right after car moved.. when connected back car yield.. WTF is going on.. I can shift this way 1,2,3. REVERSE still not works..
Tried bring 12V dirtectly from Bat to yellow/orange with 1st gear IN and No action...

Iam really confused :ohdamn:


When you pulled the oil pump and front clutch assembly did you reinstall it properly back into the case to align with the oil pressure port in the case? Did you check the connection of the two pulse generators? Did you actually use a multimeter and ohm out the solenoids?
 
It has been a few years since I did this modification to my 1G, so I'm a little rusty.

Originally I had an issue with my TCU where I was stuck in limp mode after checking it with an analog multimeter. So I decided to yank it out and do the Kiggly mod with a B&M shifter.


It is more than likely something electrical like I said in the PM.

Did you do this?

Valvebody and Pressure Recommendations

It has been a few years since I did this modification to my 1G, so I'm a little rusty.

Originally I had an issue with my TCU where I was stuck in limp mode after checking it with an analog multimeter. So I decided to yank it out and do the Kiggly mod with a B&M shifter.


It is more than likely something electrical like I said in the PM.

Did you do this?

Valvebody and Pressure Recommendations
 
confusing is why not working REVERSE.. Now without connected solenoids plug the car is able shift 123(did not try OD)tommorow woud try drive her without solenoids..

as for VB.. I just followed IPTs how to Vid on youtube.. so I just set those two valves as John recommended... but did not the port work..

Now Iam not sure if I should remove my trans to disassemble..esp if its something "small"

Thanks


It has been a few years since I did this modification to my 1G, so I'm a little rusty.

Originally I had an issue with my TCU where I was stuck in limp mode after checking it with an analog multimeter. So I decided to yank it out and do the Kiggly mod with a B&M shifter.


It is more than likely something electrical like I said in the PM.

Did you do this?

Valvebody and Pressure Recommendations

It has been a few years since I did this modification to my 1G, so I'm a little rusty.

Originally I had an issue with my TCU where I was stuck in limp mode after checking it with an analog multimeter. So I decided to yank it out and do the Kiggly mod with a B&M shifter.


It is more than likely something electrical like I said in the PM.

Did you do this?

Valvebody and Pressure Recommendations
 
Copied from the Factory Service Manual. Check all of these that apply. It's hard to help you out on this one w/o being there since there are so many possible things to go wrong.

Transaxle Remains In 3rd Gear

* Defective contacts at ignition switch
* Defective Damper Clutch Control Solenoid Valve (DCCSV) on valve body or wiring circuit
* Defective end clutch
* Defective front clutch retainer
* Defective front or rear clutch
* Defective kickdown band
* Defective kickdown servo switch
* Defective low-reverse brake
* Defective or improperly adjusted inhibitor switch
* Defective Pressure Control Solenoid Valve (PCSV) on valve body or wiring circuit
* Defective pulse generators "A" and "B" or wiring circuit
* Defective Shift Control Solenoid Valve (SCSV) "A" or "B" on valve body or wiring circuit
* Defective Transaxle Control Unit (TCU)
* Improper shift cable adjustment
* Low fluid level
* Low line pressure
* Malfunction in valve body
* "O" Ring for low-reverse brake circuit not installed between valve body and transaxle case

When you metered voltage at the diodes, did you check for voltage on the solenoid side of the diode?
 
Copied from the Factory Service Manual. Check all of these that apply. It's hard to help you out on this one w/o being there since there are so many possible things to go wrong.

Transaxle Remains In 3rd Gear

* Defective contacts at ignition switch
* Defective Damper Clutch Control Solenoid Valve (DCCSV) on valve body or wiring circuit
* Defective end clutch
* Defective front clutch retainer
* Defective front or rear clutch
* Defective kickdown band
* Defective kickdown servo switch
* Defective low-reverse brake
* Defective or improperly adjusted inhibitor switch
* Defective Pressure Control Solenoid Valve (PCSV) on valve body or wiring circuit
* Defective pulse generators "A" and "B" or wiring circuit
* Defective Shift Control Solenoid Valve (SCSV) "A" or "B" on valve body or wiring circuit
* Defective Transaxle Control Unit (TCU)
* Improper shift cable adjustment
* Low fluid level
* Low line pressure
* Malfunction in valve body
* "O" Ring for low-reverse brake circuit not installed between valve body and transaxle case

When you metered voltage at the diodes, did you check for voltage on the solenoid side of the diode?

Great!
do you have something for "NO REVERSE" ?? Even with disconnected solenoid plug Iam not able shift/run Reverse..
what I heard reverse is shifted manually..

Still not sure If I should remove my trans or if its electricall fail..

Can anyone tell me when checking solenoids.. if I flow threw them.. what they should do.. without power supply / and when I bring 12V on ??
secondly.. may I go for drive with disconnected solenoids???Can I destroy something??

Thanks guys!
 
I don't know anything about this swap.
But if it was me I would start over.
I know you probably don't want to do that. Take all apart start at the very beginning go slow make sure you do everything correctly and you might just discover your problem. Also make sure to test everything electrical so you know 100% that it's working as it should.
That's what I'd do anyways.
 
I don't know anything about this swap.
But if it was me I would start over.
I know you probably don't want to do that. Take all apart start at the very beginning go slow make sure you do everything correctly and you might just discover your problem. Also make sure to test everything electrical so you know 100% that it's working as it should.
That's what I'd do anyways.

Thanks for input :)
the point is trans worked for about 10miles without issue.. then after 1-2-3 short shifted pull it stops shift 1,2 and R.

Now with disconnected solenoids trans shifting 1-2-3 in my park lot(did not drove her with disconnected solenoids)

found this thread..
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/automatic-tranny/365973-help-no-reverse-after-rebuild.html
not sure if this can help me esp I did not touch that part of trans.. I just changed Front clutch...okay I know the clutch after front clutch moved forth.. I just put him back..

but as you said.. looks like remove trans and put it apart is the only way.

Thanks!
Venca
 
Here is the diagnostics for no reverse...


Vehicle Will Not Move In Reverse

* Defective front clutch or retainer
* Defective low-reverse brake
* Defective oil pump
* Defective Pressure Control Solenoid Valve (PCSV) on valve body or wiring circuit
* Defective pulse generator "B" or wiring circuit
* Defective torque converter
* Improper shift cable adjustment
* Low fluid level
* Low line pressure
* Malfunction in valve body
* "O" Ring for low-reverse brake circuit not installed between valve body and transaxle case
 
Here is the diagnostics for no reverse...


Vehicle Will Not Move In Reverse

* Defective front clutch or retainer
* Defective low-reverse brake
* Defective oil pump
* Defective Pressure Control Solenoid Valve (PCSV) on valve body or wiring circuit
* Defective pulse generator "B" or wiring circuit
* Defective torque converter
* Improper shift cable adjustment
* Low fluid level
* Low line pressure
* Malfunction in valve body
* "O" Ring for low-reverse brake circuit not installed between valve body and transaxle case


Thanks!

Today just removed my trans and tommorow going to local A/T Guru for help.. Do anyone have any trans scheme where he can see how the fluid flow in which channel to which clutch..I got the w4a33 manuall in pdf.

Thanks

Some pics..
 

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Anyone know what happens if I put back steel ball squeezed separator plate??
can be seen here at 8:30
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsX843yg0UY]Mitsubishi / DSM Shift Kit Installation Instuctions Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

will meet my A/T guy within 10hrs Wish me good luck guys.

Thanks

Just returned and basically he just removed VB and used air press to flow into 3rd gear channel in case and into reverse chanell( O ring is sealing between VB and case.. and both this clutches working we not hear any leaking air.. just both clutches "clicked" when he flow air in..
Then we talked around symptoms. esp when I disconnect Solenoids and shift 1/2/3/OD trans is working and car is about to move.. and once I plugP/connect solenoids or just give them 12V car won´t work.. no action.. no move.. even rpms not changed. he said he thinks my VB is screwed somehow.. Toild me borrow some other oem VB and try to run..

that way wanna ask you guys my last question:

Anyone know what happens if I put back steel ball squeezed separator plate??
can be seen here at 8:30
Mitsubishi / DSM Shift Kit Installation Instuctions Part 1 - YouTube

cus thats the only weird/strange thing on my VB... at least will try put back the steel ball and see if this helps.. and order new separator plate..

Thanks!
 
just removed my VB out (AGAIN) and meassured 19.7/ 19.8 Ohm resistance on both shift solenoids.. and found on dsmtalk guy post he found in his manuall should be aprox 22ohms.. so I should be okay..
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223808

Bought used Valve body from tuners member Purex2c, hopefully he ship early so I can check it before snow comes..
 
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Hi guys.. after some time Iam back... still same issue..

Decided fab my own separator plate cus wait from this part from US could take 3weeks.. Put my new plate back into VB and.. nothing changes..just did small vid of my car..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j72hMVpwyCA]YouTube[/ame]

found service manual on ATDSM forum and found for Reverse is using Front clutch and Low Reverse brake...I know for 3rd gear trans use Front clutch, rear clutch and end clutch, that way Front clutch is okay.. MAYBE low reverse brake is gone or no fluid press is going inside this clutch..??

Thanks
Venca
 
The pressure points that Twicks69 is referring to are in this thread with pics...Reply #10
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/aut...p-no-reverse-after-rebuild.html#post152250282

Thanks for input!
actually I wasn´t in this part of trans.. never touched those two O rings..just changed front clutch for kigglys..
anyways today just fired up my engne..shifter Reverse (car not moved) and went into engine bay, loosened Low reverse brake check screw and slowly unscrewed.. fluid starts leaking threw thread.. so That means my low reverse clutch should work??
Front clutch should be opkay too cus 3rd gear is using too and car runs in 3rd gear..

tommorow going to machine shop to fab reducer fitting to measure all the clutcgh pressures.


anyways.. do you guys have some table Which solenoids is energized for which gear??
I got instruction from Translab shift kit..
A B
REVERSE OFF ON
Neutral OFF ON
1st ON ON
2nd OFF ON
3rd OFF OFF
4th ON OFF

Is it correct?? If so.. when I shift Reverse and Neutral I got NO Voltage on thoose two wires (yellow/orange) Plus I don´t have wired starter trigger ..
Update: tried put 12V from batery to B solenoid with reverse and still nothing..:(

THANKS!
Venca
 
NEWS!

Just meassured fluid pressures on trans.. unfortunately wasn´t able meassure END CLUTCH cus of bad access. :( And didn ´t meassured Kickdown brakes.. (not using TCU..)

anyhow just found
Reducing pressure in all gears =5.5Bar / 80PSI
Low Reverse brake 1st gear and 1000rpms idle =7-8Bar (103-118PSI) should be 64psi max??
REVERSE 1000rpms idle 19Bar (280PSI) Here should be 142PSI??? Problem??
Rear Clutch 1st gear 1k rpms idle =2Bar (30psi)!!!!!!should be 128PSI!!
2nd gear 2.5k rpms =2.5bar (37psi)!!!! here should be 128Psi
3rd gear 2.5k rpms = 2.5bar (37psi)!!! should be 128PSI!!
Car was in park lot with only raised rpms to 2500rpms..(not running on way)

Front clutch Reverse 1k rpms =18-19Bar (265-280psi) here should be 142PSI!! ???PROBLEM??
3rd gear at 2500rpms = 8bar(118PSI)


That means my Rear clutch is leaking somehow right..or maybe is broken somehow??

Secondly I should have only 142psi pressure on Low Reverse clutch and Front clutch during Reverse at 1000rpms.. and I got pretty high press of 280psi??

What ya think

Thanks
 
did you open your pump up at all. i ask because there is a check ball (8mm) in it and if its not put back you will get this prob
 
Last edited:
did you open your pump up at all. i ask because there is a check ball (8mm) in it and if its not put back you will get this prob

What kind of problems you mean?? not running 1-2-R ? cus I meassured my fluid pressures on trans and only one clutch got low oil press.. check two replies upper.. .)


Anyways, Still did not find anyone who would sell good working VB to check it.. maybe there is not in whole US any VB??? :((( ( tuners member cheated me on one..and no other deal..)

if you got spare and willig sell, PM me pls.

Thanks
:)
 
Did the AT harness and TCU come with the swap? If you had a TCU emitting codes, you would know what the problem is....
 
Got some news!! Today Put apart my trans and foind some issues.. first I had 6clutch discs on Rear clutch basket!! I think prewious owner replaced the discs and eas confused of the play..and put in another disc to have zero play.. Next found my Rear clutch Hub is gone.. broked spline out of hub! !maybe cus of he put 6discs in basket??? And lastly found damaged bearing in center support.


Anyone know where I can get this damaged parts pls????

just forgot, there is another washer/spacer.. brown color...some kind of plastic... I know this same spacer is just under oil pump. you can see on pic.

So if anyone know eher I can buy these parts.. would be awesome!
Venca
 

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