6262 JB on stock 6 bolt bottom end

boost97gst · Dec 21, 2013

6262 in either bolt on or t3 is overkill for 420whp. Pump gas is the biggest hurtde i can see. If you cant run e85 then look in to meth injection.

Then again 500 bucks? Damn, thats tough to pass up. Remember: its PTE. Dont plan on spending less than that when it comes time for a rebuild. Ive got ~4500 on my JB PTE, no problems at all. But PTE jb's dont have a great rep here. If i were to start over i would have gone t3 from the get go with a BW or FP turbo. Just my opinion. The bolt on ptes definitely choke up compared to a similar FP. Justin can explain this better than I, but i believe its a known fact their bolt on housings arent that efficient.

Boosted DSM 32 · Dec 22, 2013

My1GLaser said:
Get rid of that knock! 3* is pathetic timing and not doing that turbo any justice at all! I run 21* on my HX35 with aggressive timing down low and it spools like the 18g I used to run!

That low of timing on a stock block suggests carbon build-up contributing to the knock. Seafoam it!

What plugs and gap? What's your coolant temps?

I just had my motor apart 6 months ago there isn't an ounce of carbon on anything the motor looks brand new inside. If I remember correctly my gap was at .20 and I'm not sure on the coolant temps I have a 190* t stat in it my car likes to overheat tho with the 4" Fmic I keep pushing coolant out of the overflow too I think I am starting to push the head gasket.

My1GLaser · Dec 22, 2013

You can try retorquing your head studs, but once my car started pushing coolant it didn't stop and I had to replace the HG. What HG do you have?

jakelandry · Dec 22, 2013

I know I was on a 56mm hx40 and when I had stock cams taking it out past 6k would cause knock. Diddnt matter if I was on e85 or pump. I could only get something like 16* on e85. I was making more torque than hp. Got a set of cams and knock went away and picked up 6 mph in the 1/4.

WES_393 · Dec 22, 2013

Boosted DSM 32 said:
I just had my motor apart 6 months ago there isn't an ounce of carbon on anything the motor looks brand new inside. If I remember correctly my gap was at .20 and I'm not sure on the coolant temps I have a 190* t stat in it my car likes to overheat tho with the 4" Fmic I keep pushing coolant out of the overflow too I think I am starting to push the head gasket.

It could just be a leaking radiator cap or stuck thermostat. I'd check/replace those first. A 190* thermostat seems a little high too. If you still have AC you might need to figure out a way to get more air to the radiator. The most effective way is to just remove the AC condenser... But either way, coolant temps (along with intake and oil temps) need to be locked down in order to make progress with straight pump gas.

Urbansmoker and my1glaser are on the right track- Your tune is likely the issue here. You'd see a huge improvement across the board with better timing. I'm not sure what base maps you started out with, but the 1g factory tune runs very aggressive timing and insanely rich WOT AFR's. So if you decide to give tuning another shot, I'd suggest starting over with the Evo Mod 1 Tables. They're a much better starting point for your setup.

Boosted DSM 32 · Dec 22, 2013

My1GLaser said:
You can try retorquing your head studs, but once my car started pushing coolant it didn't stop and I had to replace the HG. What HG do you have?

I have a felpro gasket I'm guessing I blew it 27 psi on my hx35 and had a few run ins with knock at higher boost it probably popped it.

jakelandry said:
I know I was on a 56mm hx40 and when I had stock cams taking it out past 6k would cause knock. Diddnt matter if I was on e85 or pump. I could only get something like 16* on e85. I was making more torque than hp. Got a set of cams and knock went away and picked up 6 mph in the 1/4.

Hmm that's weird maybe that would help me also? I'm guessing because the cams are less of a restriction it'll flow alt better and cause less heat?

WES_393 said:
It could just be a leaking radiator cap or stuck thermostat. I'd check/replace those first. A 190* thermostat seems a little high too. If you still have AC you might need to figure out a way to get more air to the radiator. The most effective way is to just remove the AC condenser... But either way, coolant temps (along with intake and oil temps) need to be locked down in order to make progress with straight pump gas.
I took my ac out so that's not the issue. I think I need better fans. I was definitely going to get a lower t stat too my buddy said his lower one helped a lot.

Urbansmoker and my1glaser are on the right track- Your tune is likely the issue here. You'd see a huge improvement across the board with better timing. I'm not sure what base maps you started out with, but the 1g factory tune runs very aggressive timing and insanely rich WOT AFR's. So if you decide to give tuning another shot, I'd suggest starting over with the Evo Mod 1 Tables. They're a much better starting point for your setup.

Awesome thank you ill show my friend that helped tune the car maybe it'll give him an idea of where to pick back up and hopefully get the timing figured out.

Also I just got word that a kid in town has a Pte 6152e turbo would that work for my goals? From reading it seems like its basically a journal bearing 35r? Seems like It would spool at high 4000s low 5000s? He only wants 350 for it

Also, could putting new lifters in my car possibly stop knock? Heard someone mention they could be naming noise and making the sensor go off

WES_393 · Dec 22, 2013

Save your time and money, your current turbo can easily accomplish your goals with a little work. And there's not much to gain by going bigger when your not even pushing what you currently have. I'd focus on a better manifold and fixing up whatever cooling issues your having.

Even if it came down to what turbo to step up to, I'd go with an HX40 over any similar sized turbo from PTE. But again, that's not going to solve the problem.

As for lifter tick and knock, I've personally had noisy lifters register as knock. But they were VERY loud at times and never pulled enough timing to make much difference. Just annoying to tune around.

JusMX141 · Dec 22, 2013

Boosted DSM 32 said:
Also I just got word that a kid in town has a Pte 6152e turbo would that work for my goals? From reading it seems like its basically a journal bearing 35r? Seems like It would spool at high 4000s low 5000s? He only wants 350 for it

Same turbo as a 6262, just older and less-efficient. If you HAD to buy one of the two, leave the 6152 alone.

Boosted DSM 32 said:
Also, could putting new lifters in my car possibly stop knock? Heard someone mention they could be naming noise and making the sensor go off

If you're getting phantom knock symptoms, it may help you...but the "knock" that the ECU reads is an audible sound created by detonation and has nothing to do with your lifters.

Phantom knock is easy to diagnose as it's often very consistent...as in it shows up at the same RPM no matter what you do with the tuning.

untouchablecc · Dec 22, 2013

Boosted DSM 32 said:
I just had my motor apart 6 months ago there isn't an ounce of carbon on anything the motor looks brand new inside. If I remember correctly my gap was at .20 and I'm not sure on the coolant temps I have a 190* t stat in it my car likes to overheat tho with the 4" Fmic I keep pushing coolant out of the overflow too I think I am starting to push the head gasket.

I fought with this for a summer on my car. I had the vrsfmic and it just doesnt let any air get to the rad. Really any intercooler acts like metal wall infront of your rad. The cheapest thing I could do to get my temps down were to cut the holes in the 2g bumper and drop down to a lower temp t stat. I never did get hot after that. If you want to do it the right way the best thing is to seal the intercooler to the radiator to force the air through but it takes time and some fabrication to get it right. Taking the crash bar off the front bumper helped get more airflow over the radiator but it takes away from safety and trying to get the bumper gaps back to normal is annoying.

Boosted DSM 32 · Dec 22, 2013

JusMX141 said:
Same turbo as a 6262, just older and less-efficient. If you HAD to buy one of the two, leave the 6152 alone.

If you're getting phantom knock symptoms, it may help you...but the "knock" that the ECU reads is an audible sound created by detonation and has nothing to do with your lifters.

Phantom knock is easy to diagnose as it's often very consistent...as in it shows up at the same RPM no matter what you do with the tuning.

Ok it must not be phantom knock then because most knock I see comes in at around 5000 rpm when the turbo really hits hard and I'm guessing its making peak torque around there. I really hope I can get the knock issue figured out so we can pump up the timing. With my mods I don't see why it shouldn't be able to make 400whp on a low reading dyno with a set of cams.

My1GLaser · Dec 22, 2013

What plugs? NGK BPR7ES is what I would run at 27psi. You can try the non-projected and see if it helps. BR7ES

Is it the Felpro composite or MLS? The reason that I ask is because too large of piston to head clearance from an MLS can cause a knock prone engine. If you run a .054" thick HG and your pistons are .010-.015" down in the cylinder than your quench isn't correct. (Just using reasonable numbers from a stock block that's never been resurfaced) My pistons are about .005" above the deck and I run the Felpro composite (.039") so my piston to head clearance is .034" which gives me great quench and a pretty knock resistant engine. 38psi on an HX35

donniekak · Dec 22, 2013

My1GLaser said:
What plugs? NGK BPR7ES is what I would run at 27psi. You can try the non-projected and see if it helps. BR7ES

Is it the Felpro composite or MLS? The reason that I ask is because too large of piston to head clearance from an MLS can cause a knock prone engine. If you run a .054" thick HG and your pistons are .010-.015" down in the cylinder than your quench isn't correct. (Just using reasonable numbers from a stock block that's never been resurfaced) My pistons are about .005" above the deck and I run the Felpro composite (.039") so my piston to head clearance is .034" which gives me great quench and a pretty knock resistant engine. 38psi on an HX35

Most pistons for the 4g63 are just an open dish with no quench pads. My latest build I went with a piston that has quench pads that mirror the head, and have a much easier to tune engine.

Boosted DSM 32 · Dec 23, 2013

My1GLaser said:
What plugs? NGK BPR7ES is what I would run at 27psi. You can try the non-projected and see if it helps. BR7ES

Is it the Felpro composite or MLS? The reason that I ask is because too large of piston to head clearance from an MLS can cause a knock prone engine. If you run a .054" thick HG and your pistons are .010-.015" down in the cylinder than your quench isn't correct. (Just using reasonable numbers from a stock block that's never been resurfaced) My pistons are about .005" above the deck and I run the Felpro composite (.039") so my piston to head clearance is .034" which gives me great quench and a pretty knock resistant engine. 38psi on an HX35

Yep those are the plugs I run, and I am using a felpro composite head gasket.

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