I know its not one of your listed options, but why not go with the Walbro 450 LPH specifically designed for E-85? Walbro 450 LPH That's what I would do if I was getting a pump for the first time and I knew I was running E-85.

My1GLaser said:

I know its not one of your listed options, but why not go with the Walbro 450 LPH specifically designed for E-85? Walbro 450 LPH That's what I would do if I was getting a pump for the first time and I knew I was running E-85.

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I seen them but i heard just one of the 450lph wont be able to flow enough at higher fuel pressures like about 80psi. the flow on them drops off considerably the higher the fuel pressure goes and since im only running 1200 injectors i figured i might need to raise fuel pressure more to get to my goal and in other threads guys have said the 044 is better for sustaining higher fuel pressures without as much drop in flow. let me know if im wrong though.

FTR: i figured id set base pressure at around 48-50psi with 1200cc and boost pressure will probably be around 30psi max so i figure around 80psi of fuel pressure ill be at under full boost, is that right? if so then id like to setup the system to handle up to 90psi with enough fuel flow.

fuel lines will be 8an feed with 6 or 8an return.

I have a single 044 in the tank, making 554/500 @ 28psi on e85.

RvlutionMtrsprt said:

I have a single 044 in the tank, making 554/500 @ 28psi on e85.

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what size injectors? what kind of fuel pressures to you get at 28psi?

My1GLaser said:

I know its not one of your listed options, but why not go with the Walbro 450 LPH specifically designed for E-85? Walbro 450 LPH That's what I would do if I was getting a pump for the first time and I knew I was running E-85.

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The 450 is awesome. I agree. I have one. 52lbs, zeroed maf comps so its an honest 52lbs and no sign of leaning out up top. Have logged higher with no problems either. Cold night.

Edit: Whats the deal with running 50psi base pressure??? I actually logged my 52lbs on my pte1000s. Very near 100% idc tho but my base was at 43 and i was running about 32psi boost to achieve that 52lbs on my 5858

Get bigger injectors, dont crank the pressure up so high

boost97gst said:

The 450 is awesome. I agree. I have one. 52lbs, zeroed maf comps so its an honest 52lbs and no sign of leaning out up top. Have logged higher with no problems either. Cold night.

Edit: Whats the deal with running 50psi base pressure??? I actually logged my 52lbs on my pte1000s. Very near 100% idc tho but my base was at 43 and i was running about 32psi boost to achieve that 52lbs on my 5858

Get bigger injectors, dont crank the pressure up so high

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Im not running larger than 1200 because im going to be running pump gas as well because with 1400 injectors the PW at idle are too low for it to idle. And the 1200 injectors are rated and tested up to 100psi. at 58psi fuel pressure the 1200 flow 1440cc.

LeedBoost said:

I seen them but i heard just one of the 450lph wont be able to flow enough at higher fuel pressures like about 80psi. the flow on them drops off considerably the higher the fuel pressure goes and since im only running 1200 injectors i figured i might need to raise fuel pressure more to get to my goal and in other threads guys have said the 044 is better for sustaining higher fuel pressures without as much drop in flow. let me know if im wrong though.

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ALL fuel pumps flow less at higher pressure. That's just the nature of their design. Inline pumps are only "better" at higher pressure due to their lack of pressure relief valve, which you can disable on in-tank pumps. The Walbro 400/450 flow rate doesn't take a nose dive until 90psi anyways.

I have a rewired Walbro 400lph running 50psi base pressure to stretch my 1150's, and 35psi of boost. The pump is pretty much at it's limits supporting over 60lb/min at 12.5:1 AFR's, but nevertheless still handles it just fine.

So I agree, get a 450lph and rewire it. Your going to have to run quite a bit of boost to make 500whp with an HX35.

WES_393 said:

ALL fuel pumps flow less at higher pressure. That's just the nature of their design. Inline pumps are only "better" at higher pressure due to their lack of pressure relief valve, which you can disable on in-tank pumps. The Walbro 400/450 flow rate doesn't take a nose dive until 90psi anyways.

I have a rewired Walbro 400lph running 50psi base pressure to stretch my 1150's, and 35psi of boost. The pump is pretty much at it's limits supporting over 60lb/min at 12.5:1 AFR's, but nevertheless still handles it just fine.

So I agree, get a 450lph and rewire it. Your going to have to run quite a bit of boost to make 500whp with an HX35.

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thanks for the help. thats more of what i was looking for. but its the hx35 7blade with ar70 t3 turbine housing so im hoping to hit around 500wheel. my goal is 450 and 500 is my max.

so i guess ill just go with the walbro 450 and see how that handles it...do you think that 6an feed and 6an return is enough FOR NOW on e85? im planning on goin 8an feed eventually if its a must. ive seen plenty guys making over 500 on e85 with 6an lines so that makes me wonder.

I'm running stock 5/16" fuel lines, stock filter, 6an to/from the rail, and stock return. No apparent issues with fuel flow. So you'll be just fine with a 6an lines.

Uhhh, i was on stock lines. I dont know what the dyno would say but i would be surprised if it was under 450 at 52lbs/min. Mainly cause its a fwd manual, more whp. Less parts to turn basically.

My next build is 6an feed and stock return. New hose but still stock diameter will work fine. Maybe some 6 nylon hose, who knows. Im not dealing with braided steel lines anymore. I hate those things and will choose nylon anyday after having dealt with them.

Will 6an support 600whp on an awd auto? Or should i go 8 feed 6 return? Ive been wondering that considering ill be running either a bw (bullseye) s364ett or if money and michael cooperate a 3786(?). Those are both near 80lb turbos but the drivetrain loss with auto is a bit more, add in awd and im sure itd drop 100hp by the time it gets to the wheels.

Wes, what all did you have to do to install your walboro 400? Was it pretty much a drop in install or did you have to modify the sender any?

thanks!

fwiw, i run 2 255 externals, and stock lines/filter. For you I would 100% go 255hp to 255 external or 044.

I run a 255 intank with a tsunami inline and have no issues at 580 awhp. Stock lines to a -6an filter and -6an lines to the rail. Stock return line and have no issues with pressure or running out of fuel.

black97spyder said:

Wes, what all did you have to do to install your walboro 400? Was it pretty much a drop in install or did you have to modify the sender any?

thanks!

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It dropped right in place of my 255.

I did 475awhp with 850 injectors on E85 with an HX35, so I fail to see why you're going to be almost maxing 1200's. How rich are you trying to run?

jrohner said:

I did 475awhp with 850 injectors on E85 with an HX35, so I fail to see why you're going to be almost maxing 1200's. How rich are you trying to run?

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not that rich. what were your afr's? and how did you have them setup? high fuel pressures? etc.

stock regulator, never wasted my time or money on anything but stock regulators on any of my DSM's. Mine likes mid 12's for AFR's (gas scale obviously).

OP, If you are set on pump gas and set on a hx35 then i suggest not fooling around with really high base pressures and getting a meth/water injection kit. If you are trying to hit 500whp! on a hx35 w pump gas, the fuel pump is honestly the least of your concerns. Just get the 450 and be done with it.

Just for what it is worth.. the in-line pumps (when used in conjunction with an in tank pump) support higher pressures more effectively because they are not wasting energy on performing the work needed to lift the fuel from the tank and then pressurize. They are being fed fuel already at (usually) low pressure.

OP, I would personally vouch for running a big single that you won't have to upgrade. Look into a MagnaFuel MP-4303. If you are going for 500awhp on E85.. you will eventually want more. Don't buy twice.

jrohner said:

I did 475awhp with 850 injectors on E85 with an HX35, so I fail to see why you're going to be almost maxing 1200's. How rich are you trying to run?

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The math doesn't add up on that one. You would be running near 90% IDCs on a set of 1200cc injectors even running fairly lean on a setup with low BSFC, if you weren't pushing an insane base pressure.

1. Since probably none of us on this page know our BSFC, your math will be flawed using it. If you have not had your engine on an engine dyno and had fuel flow #s, you don't know BSFC and are just guessing and estimating. I converted my airflow & afr's to fuel flow with simple math and it came out fine. I'm not the only one on tuners that's done in the area of 500awhp on 850's anyways. Also, I did 414awhp/459tq on 750's, and tuned a 2g with 325awhp on 680's, and tuned an Evo running low 12's 1/4 mile on 680's. All on E85, all on stock FPR's. You could almost say I don't believe in throwing in bigger injectors than you need, since I always run smaller than you 'need'.

2. Math or no math (see above, I did have math back then), I did it so why does math mean a darn thing? Real world > paper.

3. A lot of what you need for fuel, or to even make power, is in the tune, so it's not like I can guarantee anyone will have the same experiences as anyone else, but I was sharing mine. I still don't think even a crappy tune would need that much more fuel and/or air than I do. Especially since I'm no pro of any kind and have never even tuned while on a dyno (street only, with baseline numbers on dyno days with no tuning allowed).

Just because the stoich afrs of gas / e85: 14.7/9.765=1.5, doesn't mean it takes 1.5 times the fuel even though at first thought you'd think it would. I've been running E85 since 2001 first in carbureted racecars and then in DSM's in about 2005-6.

boost97gst said:

OP, If you are set on pump gas and set on a hx35 then i suggest not fooling around with really high base pressures and getting a meth/water injection kit. If you are trying to hit 500whp! on a hx35 w pump gas, the fuel pump is honestly the least of your concerns. Just get the 450 and be done with it.

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I don't recall pump gas being mentioned, did I miss something?

Good information I was thinking about upgrading to a better fuel pump to run e85 with some 1250ccs.

Thanks for all the info guys. Ill be going with a walbro 450 most likely.
For clarification this is for e85 on 1200cc

LeedBoost said:

Hi im looking for some insight from someone who has experience with these pumps. Basically im going to be running e85 on 1200cc high-z injectors trying to make about 500whp on an hx35. The injectors flow alot more at higher fuel pressures so I know to make more power on e85 ill be just about maxing them out.
Now I figured if I have more fuel at a high fuel pressure I could keep the IDC lower.

So what i want to know is whats better?....
a dual walbro 255hp intank? or
a single walbro 255 intank and an inline bosch 044
and i dont think a single 044 will be enough, correct me if im wrong anyone...

also i was thinking dual 044 but thats probably too much?
and does anyone know if the bosch 044 can be used as an 'in-tank' pump ive only seen people externally mount them.
Thanks for all the help guys

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A single 044 is definitely enough....better yet, just do a single Walbro 400lph which flows more and is an easy drop in.

FWIW...my 3200lb Talon back in 2009 went 10.72@138mph on a single intank Bosch and 1600cc's. Everything else in the fuel system was stock including rail and fpr. It did make 530'ishfwhp at lower boost on a DD dyno to run 128mph traps. This was on pump E85. Happy Boosting!