Last night I was driving home in the rain in a 94 DODGE SHADOW base model (slowest car in the world). Cop pulled me over and said I was doing 90+ in a 65. Complete BS, the cop was totally disrespectful and threw the ticket at me. This car is physically incapable of doing above 80 without the engine smoking.

So I have to fight this. I've never had a ticket before and just wanted advice from those who have beaten tickets. The officer wrote it was clocked, but I know that is a lie. Is there any paperwork I could bring in or something I could use to prove my honesty besides just my side of the story?

Bascially its your word againist his, but if he has a radar plot, then your preety much screwed.

I feel cops take some things way too personal, give me the ticket, do your job, and let me be on my way without having to hear a speech.

If the car is incapable of doing 90, then tell the judge that.. might work, but probably not.

one thing you can do is when you go to court ask to see the calibration log, I've done it twice now each time they couldn't show it the judge dismissed my tickets. oh and another thing if you get a pretty cool judge hopefully just say this is your first ticket ever and you might get off lighter. and you can always bs your way and try and say your car has a govenor at like 80 so theres no way you could have been going that fast. seen it all work.

well first thing is radar guns become very unreliable in moderate to heavy rain. It picks up the rain over the car. Ever hear the term "wall of water"? this is literally the issue with radar guns and heavy rain.

You need to ask for...
1. The calibration reports of the gun used.
2. The service record of the gun used.
3. The service record of the car the gun was in.
4. The training jacket/record of the officer that used the gun. To check for lapses in training which can disqualify him from using the gun.
5. A detailed weather report of the night in question that it happened. This to include rainfall amounts over a period of time. This will create an arguement that the radar gun was not a reliable means to judge speed, as the rain will create a shimmering wall of protection.
6. In some states a parked cop car MUST have some sort of light on. Parking lights, interior light, something. If that is true in your state, and the cop did not have a light on...
7. Bring up, but do not press the fact of what the car is. Some judges know cars, and know what they can do. I once got a ticket for going 97 in a 1973 Vega 4 banger. The judge did not even start and asked "is this vehicle true?" I said yes, and even brought a pic of the engine bay, with the courthouse in the background with a calender on the air cleaner so he knew it was recent.
Judged laughed the ticket out of court. It turns out he had one when they were new... and remembered just how slow it was...

Do yourself a favor and listen to the members here. I got pulled over when I was 17 in nearly the exact same circumstances (Almost a decade ago). It was a state cop, with a nice, big chip on his shoulder. It was raining out, and my car (1990 Mercury Sable, 130HP) had some really crappy tires. He claimed I was doing 50 in a 35, 150 feet away from the stop sign I had just left, uphill. Anyone with a mild sense of understanding knows that this is just plain impossible. My speedometer was reading 30Mph, and my brother, who was in the car at the time, had verified this. However, the officer had a few billion brain cells missing and failed to comprehend this. I brought this up to the prosecutor, who was kind enough to drop the price of the ticket in half, but unfortunately, this still goes on your record. As a result, my insurance rates went up, which are not kind to 17 year olds to begin with. The officer was also quite rude to me and my brother, using harsh language and threatening to 'bring us back to the station if we didn't shut the hell up'. There was no cause for this behavior, he was just an asshole. Not all officers are like this, as a few of my friends are police officers now, and are very honorable people.

Get the ticket thrown out, or get a charitable contribution as a worst case. Do NOT plead to a lesser charge or get a reduced fine. It will bite you later, especially when it comes time to renew your insurance.

Matt.

In the U.S. if you plead not-guilty, then they must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your car was indeed going the speed on the ticket in the light of the equipment working perfectly. If it were raining, and incorrect speed readouts on the gun are a repeatable mistake, then I'd say you have a good chance of getting off scott-free.

Bostedquest said:

well first thing is radar guns become very unreliable in moderate to heavy rain. It picks up the rain over the car. Ever hear the term "wall of water"? this is literally the issue with radar guns and heavy rain.

You need to ask for...
1. The calibration reports of the gun used.
2. The service record of the gun used.
3. The service record of the car the gun was in.
4. The training jacket/record of the officer that used the gun. To check for lapses in training which can disqualify him from using the gun.
5. A detailed weather report of the night in question that it happened. This to include rainfall amounts over a period of time. This will create an arguement that the radar gun was not a reliable means to judge speed, as the rain will create a shimmering wall of protection.
6. In some states a parked cop car MUST have some sort of light on. Parking lights, interior light, something. If that is true in your state, and the cop did not have a light on...
7. Bring up, but do not press the fact of what the car is. Some judges know cars, and know what they can do. I once got a ticket for going 97 in a 1973 Vega 4 banger. The judge did not even start and asked "is this vehicle true?" I said yes, and even brought a pic of the engine bay, with the courthouse in the background with a calender on the air cleaner so he knew it was recent.
Judged laughed the ticket out of court. It turns out he had one when they were new... and remembered just how slow it was...

Click to expand...

Ok, I rounded up some weather reports to prove it was raining. I will also take a picture of under the hood of the car. I guess it's not a judge I have to face, it's a magistrate.

This will be my first time going into court. Is it common for a state trooper to show up and bring all these records with him? Because if he had them, I wouldn't understand what I'm looking at...

Sounds like your state money machine has you targeted, local police can make a alot of money for the county/town in BS tickets that people just pay instead of fighting. Fight the ticket, a chance at beating the ticket is worth your time and money, if you still lose you pay the ticket and no more.

Here local the cops are out of control, I know several people who have goten bogus speeding, display of HP, and "racing" tickets.


[rant]
I myself got hit with a combo of the three in one shot. Story... I'm in my mom's 90 v6 4.3l Astro Conversion Van heading to pick up my little sister from swim practice down the main strip in town. I stop for a light and a dumbshit in a honda pulls up next to me, whent he light turns green he neu-drops it hard and takes off, I roll my eyes and procede on my way. About 2 miles down the road a cop comes up quick on me and pulls me over. When he comes up to me he says that I pealed out my tires and raced the honda up to 105 mph and he had it on radar and on his in-car cam. I called a bullshit on it right there and the cop threatened me with towing the van right there for reckless driving but he eventually gives me a ticket. When it comes to court time the cop shows up 45 mins late so the judge isnt happy to start with. When the judge reads the charges against me he chuckles a bit and asked the cop for the cam video and print-out from the radar. The cop said he missplaced it durring the 3 months it took to get this court date set. The judge looking very pissed told the cop to get out of his court room and said that the tickets would be dropped then appolgised to me for wasting my time.
[/rant]

Mattitude v1 said:

Ok, I rounded up some weather reports to prove it was raining. I will also take a picture of under the hood of the car. I guess it's not a judge I have to face, it's a magistrate.

This will be my first time going into court. Is it common for a state trooper to show up and bring all these records with him? Because if he had them, I wouldn't understand what I'm looking at...

Click to expand...

No it is not common. That is how you trip them up.
They have to perform daily tests and "tune ups" on the radar guns.
Also ask if he actually tested it with a tuning fork Vs the "test" button. The difference, one only tests to make sure the circuitry is fine, the other actually makes sure the speed reading is accurate. and also point out that the "test" button is 9 times out of 10 NOT the way that the manufacturer recomends testing accuracy of the unit. You can prove this by looking up the units that police officers in your area use and printing out exerpts from the users manual commonly availible on the manufacturers website. Sometimes they will also include info such as recomended tear down and rebuild times frames, service intervals ect. You check that data against the radar guns actual service/repair record and can prove the item faulty if it is not serviced regularly at manufacturer determined intervals.

There are all kinds of ways to trip up officers in court.
If he does not answer a question the way you like it, remember that question and ask it again later, but reworded. If he slips up, point that out. IE, I went to court over a ticket where the cop claimed I went "Too fast past a school bus stop"
The bus stop was at a stop sign.
There were no kids there.
At a time that I knew was after the bus had already been there.
I printed out Illinois school standards at what declares a "School Bus Stop"
They stated "A School bus stop is anyplace where a School bus is currently stopped and childeren are either getting on, or getting off." And was very adiment that scheduled stops IS NOT a bus stop. The bus MUST BE THERE at that time with childeren getting on/off.
I asked the officer several questions...
1. Were there any childeren at the stop sign. He lied and said yes.
2. Did I stop at the stop sign. He said yes.
This is when I brought up a document that I got from the school, declaring where exactly the bus does stop to pick up childeren on that street. And pointed out that it was at the stop sign where X street crosses X street.
3. Do you know what the state of Illinois considers a School Bus Stop? He said no. I brought up defense exibit E I think by that point... a printed document from the Illinois State Board of Education of Standards that defined exactly what a Bus Stop is. I also gave a copy to the officer.
4 (After given time to read it) Anywhere in that document does it say that a "scheduled stop" is a bus stop? He answered no.

I was going to ask more, but the judge said "that's enough son. You made your point. Case dismissed.

i had a freind with a ford ranger. he had the speed limiter removed and was doing 120 on the freeway when he got pulled over. luckily for him it wasnt yet double the limit so they didnt impound it.

he then got back home, and put the speed limiter back to 90.

he went to court, told them the truck is physically limited to 90. brought in a ford pamphlet that shown what cars were limited at. the judge ordered them to a test area where he says they did a good 10 passes and couldnt get over 90 any time.

the ticket was thrown out.




i think you have a very good chance. radar guns dont work for shit in the rain. the car is physically incapible of going the speed shown by the cop. you could bring up the calibration line(though they might ways around that, the calibration line no longer works in cali).

Every ticket that I had from radar the judge asked the police officer if the gun was calibrated that day for use and the police officer just answered yes with no documentation present. Good luck...

It is okay to refer to notes in court, right? Otherwise I'll have to memorize all this. Thanks for the advice.

Mattitude v1 said:

It is okay to refer to notes in court, right? Otherwise I'll have to memorize all this. Thanks for the advice.

Click to expand...

Yes YOU can use notes while questioning... the OFFICER CANNOT repeat CANNOT refer to ANY NOTES unless he declares (have to go look it up real quick) what is called "Laying the Propper Evidentuary Foundation".
In doing this they admit several things, and MUST state all three SPECIFIC TOPICS for them to read it legally. Very few cops know how to do this correctly. I even got the cop at my trial with this when he tried to testify from his notes for the DA first.

They must testify that...
They cannot remember all the details of the violation
They recorded the notes shortly after issuing the violation
They need to refer to them to refresh thier memory

If this happens, you should declare "Objection, the witness is clearly reading from notes which is hearsay and should be excluded from trial"

Then the officer should hand the notes to you, if not ask for them.

But DO NOT return them until they have done the above sequence.
The judge CANNOT prompt the officer on what to do either, if he does Object again stating, "Objection your honor, with all due respect, it appears that the court is helping the officer testify by asking leading questions"
Yes, you might tick off the judge. But you will also show him/her that you know the law and that you know what they can and cannot do.

After the judge dismissed my case (I was the last one for the day) the court reporter came out shortly after and asked if I was a lawyer, or going to law school. I just smiled and said no. She just said execellent job in thier, the officer is still getting chewed out. I just said thank you, and maybe next time he will know what he can and cannot do, because I do.

It's not exactly a trial in this state, just a hearing in front of a magistrate. Is it okay to still interrupt and call objection?

Another thing along with the rain that screws up radar guns, is that if you are at too of an oblique angle the gun will read a higher speed. This is the only way that I have heard of people I know first hand getting out of tickets, is by stating the "too oblique an angle", if it was a radar gun ask the police for specs and it will state in there the maximum angle the gun can be used effectively. But none of this matters if he did actually clock you from in front or behind. If he did get this by clocking you from the side or close to it, you may want to look into this. Good Luck on the ticket

I noticed on the ticket it says clocked, radar, and estimated. "Clocked" is circled. What is the difference between clocked and radar? Initially, the cop was in the right lane doing 55 and I passed him. He then pulled behind me and pulled me over.

BGGSTin said:

Another thing along with the rain that screws up radar guns, is that if you are at too of an oblique angle the gun will read a higher speed.

Click to expand...

Incorrect. Anything less than a perpendicular will yield a lower speed on a radar gun.

Mattitude v1 said:

I noticed on the ticket it says clocked, radar, and estimated. "Clocked" is circled. What is the difference between clocked and radar? Initially, the cop was in the right lane doing 55 and I passed him. He then pulled behind me and pulled me over.

Click to expand...

Clocked does not mean anything to me.
Only certain things will actually stand up as speed judgements.
Radar, Pacing, Lazer and road spacing strips.

If he was going 55 and you passed him, is he a state tropper? If so almost every state that is illegal to do.
If he is not a tropper, pacing is fightable on so many levels it is not funny.
You have to ask what makes his speedometer correct?
How old is the car?
When was the last time it was tested?
When was the last time it was certified true?

When you go to court be sure to ask the definition of the term "clocked" and what is considered legal and more importantly admisable ways to determine speed.

Bostedquest said:

You need to ask for...
1. The calibration reports of the gun used.
2. The service record of the gun used.
3. The service record of the car the gun was in.

Click to expand...

Do you have to do your own research before hand and get this information or can you ask to see it on your court date?


I got busted a few weeks back for speeding, I remember it was raining out, the ticket says they used lidar. Would the weather argument work for that too? I honestly don't remember if I was speeding. All I know is I was traveling in the middle lane and there were people in the left lane blowing by me when I saw the cop.

K Dan said:

Do you have to do your own research before hand and get this information or can you ask to see it on your court date?


I got busted a few weeks back for speeding, I remember it was raining out, the ticket says they used lidar. Would the weather argument work for that too? I honestly don't remember if I was speeding. All I know is I was traveling in the middle lane and there were people in the left lane blowing by me when I saw the cop.

Click to expand...

They need to provide that info if requested. It is all a mater of public record, meaning they have to give it up if asked.
I do not know how lidar works so?... I amnot going to give advise on something I have no clue about.
But if it radar-ish in its workings, then yes.
Any equipment used must have a service/repair record, and that record (or a copy of) must be given to anyone that asks for it.

Bostedquest said:

Clocked does not mean anything to me.
Only certain things will actually stand up as speed judgements.
Radar, Pacing, Lazer and road spacing strips.

If he was going 55 and you passed him, is he a state tropper? If so almost every state that is illegal to do.
If he is not a tropper, pacing is fightable on so many levels it is not funny.
You have to ask what makes his speedometer correct?
How old is the car?
When was the last time it was tested?
When was the last time it was certified true?

When you go to court be sure to ask the definition of the term "clocked" and what is considered legal and more importantly admisable ways to determine speed.

Click to expand...

Yes, he is a state trooper. It is illegal for a trooper to do 55?

If he wasn't using radar, should I ask for a camera recording from the cop car or proof of a recent eye examination? The trooper did not note on my ticket the distance over which I was clocked and the time it took for me to cover that distance. I could use these numbers against him.

Also, it is common here for the officer not to show up to the hearing. So should I still ask for all these items?

Most county and city patrol units have Radar guns that can only measure speed when the cop car is not moving. So if you get a ticket from one of those then you will likely have a way to catch the cop in a lie if he said he clocked you while he was in motion. If its a state cop then they usually do have Radar units that can clock while sitting still, following, or headon. These units must be set in the mode for each situation or they can read very drasticly different values.

It is illegal for poliece to drive above the posted limit unless they are in persute *With their lights on*. While the units lights are off the poliece officer must obay posted speedlimits, stop signs and the like. If he was following/keeping pace with you and you were doing say 90 in a 45 then he better damn well have his lights on or he was also breaking the speed limits.


Some states require the officer who wrote the ticket to show up, some do not. Indiana and Ill require the cop to show up, if he does not then the case is usually dropped unless it was a major violation.

/edit Bah damn double enter = post crud..

If all else fails and your speed infraction was Radar/Laser clocked ask to see the FCC certificate for the unit. Many states got nailed for using illegal non-FCC compliant units in Feb of this year. Any case that was brought up against this results in an automatic dismissal of the ticket.

The forward or rearward facing moving radar is even more susceptible to speed errors. Anything on the roadway can make it misread.
And every radar ticket can be fought and won if on nothing else then technicalities where the officer does not have 1 of many many things that are required to show a properly tuned and calibrated unit.

But as it was said before, yes ALL law enforcement vehicles are SUPPOSED to only do the posted speed limit, no more, no less.
In reality however... yeah that cop that is doing 80 in a 65 passing everyone without lights or a siren on is a state trooper....

Most cops I know have real problems with the law. They are under the impression that while on duty they are above it and do not have to follow it. That is why if you do research that over the past 5-7 years ALOT of civic groups have now started driving with dash mounted cameras policing the police. They make sure they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Afterall what good is having a cop enforcing the law that he ignores?

And yes, if they find a persistence of neglect or abuse or bad enough single time offenses, they turn the tape into the local DA's office and press for prosecution.

Nanan said:

Sounds like your state money machine has you targeted, local police can make a alot of money for the county/town in BS tickets that people just pay instead of fighting. Fight the ticket, a chance at beating the ticket is worth your time and money, if you still lose you pay the ticket and no more.

Here local the cops are out of control, I know several people who have goten bogus speeding, display of HP, and "racing" tickets.


[rant]
I myself got hit with a combo of the three in one shot. Story... I'm in my mom's 90 v6 4.3l Astro Conversion Van heading to pick up my little sister from swim practice down the main strip in town. I stop for a light and a dumbshit in a honda pulls up next to me, whent he light turns green he neu-drops it hard and takes off, I roll my eyes and procede on my way. About 2 miles down the road a cop comes up quick on me and pulls me over. When he comes up to me he says that I pealed out my tires and raced the honda up to 105 mph and he had it on radar and on his in-car cam. I called a bullshit on it right there and the cop threatened me with towing the van right there for reckless driving but he eventually gives me a ticket. When it comes to court time the cop shows up 45 mins late so the judge isnt happy to start with. When the judge reads the charges against me he chuckles a bit and asked the cop for the cam video and print-out from the radar. The cop said he missplaced it durring the 3 months it took to get this court date set. The judge looking very pissed told the cop to get out of his court room and said that the tickets would be dropped then appolgised to me for wasting my time.
[/rant]

Click to expand...

should have also mentioned that there is a speed limiter at 100mph, which is where the speedo ends. btw, you totally could have taken that civic... done it plenty in my 4.3L astro awd. good to hear it got thrown out though.

on topic...
i feel it important to note that there are two things going on here. first is, when you get there, there will be a huge line of people waiting to speak with your officer. at this time you get to face your accuser and talk about a plea bargain. my first time going i got offered a no seatbelt violation (instead of 75 in a 55) and the second time i went i got offered an equipment violation (instead of the no front plate AND illegal left turn). if you say no to the offer or if there is no offer, then you are to go before the judge / magistrate. here you will plead not guilty and you will be asked to sit down. bring a gameboy, cause you're gonna have to wait (unless you get scheduled for a different day) and then the trials start. this is where you can present your case. if you got offered a plea bargain before, now is too later to take advantage of this... you are either paying up the full fine and getting it all on your record or you are getting it completely dropped - unless the judge decides to do something like give you a lesser fine or lower the charge.

most people will disagree, but if the officer offers you something that has only a fine and doesnt go on your record, then I would take it. sure, then you gotta pay up, but the consequences are so much less than if you lose in court. this is just my opinion.