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1GB Talon TSI 16G, on methanol

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:hmm: Where do I start? First of all, nice job! :thumb: I love the custom windage tray. :hellyeah: Wow, just look at those fuel pumps. OMG And what great results on the dyno! This is gonna be fun to see run at the Shootout for sure.:cool: See you soon.
 
Looks like you guys hit the 500whp you were looking for!!

Just made it! Thinking there is more on the table with a cam change or possibly cam timing.. have to play with that later.

:hmm: Where do I start? First of all, nice job! :thumb: I love the custom windage tray. :hellyeah: Wow, just look at those fuel pumps. OMG And what great results on the dyno! This is gonna be fun to see run at the Shootout for sure.:cool: See you soon.

Thanks man! I'm excited to meet some people, make sure you come say hello.

Down to the wire! Good luck!

For sure, I'm a bit nervous about not making a test pass until the night before we leave, but it is what it is. Thanks
 
Great work!

What did you change since the last dyno? I am assuming compression and Cam, but I am not sure what else. Same manifodl and turbo?

Crazy how well it carries power up top for such a small turine housing. 8cm?
 
Great work!

What did you change since the last dyno? I am assuming compression and Cam, but I am not sure what else. Same manifodl and turbo?

Crazy how well it carries power up top for such a small turine housing. 8cm?

Same cams, change compression from 8:1 to 11.2:1. This isnt a 16G anymore, this is our own billet charger we built for the SAT class at shootout. Yes 8cm housing.
 
Same cams, change compression from 8:1 to 11.2:1. This isnt a 16G anymore, this is our own billet charger we built for the SAT class at shootout. Yes 8cm housing.

Curt borwn Cheater turbos- Love it!

Great work man-that HP curve really shows how well a good long tube header can overcome a small turbine hosuing. (even though I assume the turbine wheel is not so stock anymore either. :hellyeah:)
 
So how much of the extension on the torque curve do you attribute to the housing change vs the cam?

There was no cam change. The is the exact same head setup, with the new aluminum rod, high compression bottom end on it, and a new turbo.

The turbo is a hybrid unit, which we are testing at the shootout, and we may start selling if it all goes well. It is MUCH larger than a 16G on the compressor and turbine side. Ideally it should be in a TD06 compressor cover, but we're limited in the stock appearing class obviously.

So basically, to answer your question, the entire powerband extension is due to the turbo. Had the 16G stayed on, it would have looked like it did before, except with higher peak numbers.
 
So how much of the extension on the torque curve do you attribute to the housing change vs the cam?

To further Andy's response, the boost is stable from the hit all the way to redline on this charger. The 16G would spike to 44 and fall to 32. the new combo holds 40-41 from 5400 to 8000+ Also the 4-2-1 collector design will broaden the curve, I think this is just more apparent now that boost is stable. I'm also thinking that removing some over lap would give me more up top as drive pressure is increasing. Boost would creep to 37psi when I had it set around 32 in the early stages of tuning. I would also benefit from a larger intake cam (possibly exhaust cam as well). but the curve would be more peaky. We will see how the new converter acts and I'll probably make a cam decision based off that, and RPM in the traps. To further the cam situation.. I chose these cams because the ramp rate is very high. The intake cam has 264 advertised (@.004) and the @.050 is 226. This allowed for less overlap while maintaining the upper lift duration numbers I am looking for.

Damn I'm logged in as Andy :(
 
To further Andy's response, the boost is stable from the hit all the way to redline on this charger. The 16G would spike to 44 and fall to 32. the new combo holds 40-41 from 5400 to 8000+ Also the 4-2-1 collector design will broaden the curve, I think this is just more apparent now that boost is stable. (

Phenomenal! What a badass charger! :hellyeah:
 
There was no cam change. The is the exact same head setup, with the new aluminum rod, high compression bottom end on it, and a new turbo.

The turbo is a hybrid unit, which we are testing at the shootout, and we may start selling if it all goes well. It is MUCH larger than a 16G on the compressor and turbine side. Ideally it should be in a TD06 compressor cover, but we're limited in the stock appearing class obviously.

So basically, to answer your question, the entire powerband extension is due to the turbo. Had the 16G stayed on, it would have looked like it did before, except with higher peak numbers.

Ya some how I missed "the cams are the same" even though it was stated in the post right above mine. :ohdamn:

Because the x-axis intervals are (intentionally?) not visible, can you tell us where it starts to take a nose dive? In the post below I see reference to 8k+ rpm. So is this along the lines of a 30R turbine? My suspicion was that this much added usable rev-range would not have come from just a bump up from the 070 housing to the 080. LOL

To further Andy's response, the boost is stable from the hit all the way to redline on this charger. The 16G would spike to 44 and fall to 32. the new combo holds 40-41 from 5400 to 8000+ Also the 4-2-1 collector design will broaden the curve, I think this is just more apparent now that boost is stable. I'm also thinking that removing some over lap would give me more up top as drive pressure is increasing. Boost would creep to 37psi when I had it set around 32 in the early stages of tuning. I would also benefit from a larger intake cam (possibly exhaust cam as well). but the curve would be more peaky. We will see how the new converter acts and I'll probably make a cam decision based off that, and RPM in the traps. To further the cam situation.. I chose these cams because the ramp rate is very high. The intake cam has 264 advertised (@.004) and the @.050 is 226. This allowed for less overlap while maintaining the upper lift duration numbers I am looking for.

Damn I'm logged in as Andy :(

"Peaky" may not be a bad thing if the only real sacrifice to that nice torque curve comes at an rpm the engine never sees after leaving the stripe, no? :aha:

Good stuff guys. :thumb:
 
Phenomenal! What a badass charger! :hellyeah:

Thanks man!

Ya some how I missed "the cams are the same" even though it was stated in the post right above mine. :ohdamn:

Because the x-axis intervals are (intentionally?) not visible, can you tell us where it starts to take a nose dive? In the post below I see reference to 8k+ rpm. So is this along the lines of a 30R turbine? My suspicion was that this much added usable rev-range would not have come from just a bump up from the 070 housing to the 080. LOL



"Peaky" may not be a bad thing if the only real sacrifice to that nice torque curve comes at an rpm the engine never sees after leaving the stripe, no? :aha:

Good stuff guys. :thumb:

Torque starts to fall quicker around 7800. and your right on with the "peaky" situation, it may not be a bad thing, I'm putting alot of weight for my camshaft choice based on what the converter does.
 
I sent a Torque converter to Bradco Engineering Friday before shootout praying I would get it back Wednesday.. In preparation for this I pulled the engine out Tuesday night, fixed an oil leak and crossed my fingers (Shane Webster crossed his toes!!) for the converter to show. The converter showed up on Wednesday as planned, I put it back together after work and was at the track by 7.

My first test pass on the car was a 9.79@142 with a 1.51 60ft. 2nd pass on the car I has an ignition failure at 900ish feet. ran a 10.09@113. That pass was .08 faster at the 1/8th. I called it a day, went home and looked things over. Found the ignition issue and helped John finish his car up.

Shootout:

Drove the car to dinner Friday night, that was pretty fun cruising with John, and our friends from Detroit that came down to support us. First Time on the street with the 1/2 filled block, and also with the new converter. Engine and trans temp stayed in check the whole time. The converter acted very well on the street as well, drove damn near like stock. Although Brad is a pain to get in contact with at times, he seems like a very good guy, and his converter is second to none.

Saturday at the track went well. On my test pass the vacuum pump quit and I couldn't hold the car back. Went a 10.05 @ 142 with a 1.67 60ft time :( My dad pulled the vacuum pump apart and a valve was broken, he then took a .008 feeler gauge and made a new valve for it, worked great. First round of Qualifying went a 9.73@143. I called it a day and helped dial johns car in a bit more.

Sunday's plan was to only make an 1/8th mile hit just to make sure everything was ok. When I first got there, I took the car out and drove it around to get some heat into the drive-line and what, made a small pull and called it good. Went to help John and got a text saying my front tire is flat, wasn't sure what to think about it. I borrowed an air tank form Kiggly (Thanks Guys!!) and filled the tire up. I apparently ran over something and it punctured the tire. It was small enough that the leak was slow. My plan was to air up the tire since it was holding air way long enough to make a pass. Went out for the last round of qualifying and the 60ft felt good so I let it eat, went a new personal best of 9.69@144. I had also dialed the timing back into it(I had pulled 2* from the dyno because I was unsure about what the frontal pressure would do). Something in the drive line started knocking at the top of first and the beginning of second gear. Had me nervous, when I got back I checked all the U-joints and everything seemed in check. By the time I turned off the track the leak had gotten bad, by the time I made it back to the trailer the tire was flat. So in a scramble Chris (who won DSM Max effort) found a plug kit and we plugged the tire (do not do this, its dumb!). yes it was sketchy and had me nervous.

First round I had the by, and just cruised down the track to try and save the drive train, and the tire which was holding air vary well. Second round I was still very concerned about the tire, and the drive-line (mostly the tire). I had to make a good pass. Car came up on the converter slow and was very soft through first. I thought I had launched in 2nd, but then I heard the tell tail sound of a massive boost leak. Still managed to win the round with a 10.77@128 at 25ish psi. In hind sight, the boost leak may have saved the drive-line enough for the final. Came back to the pits fixed the boost leak, checked the tire and prepared for the final.

Final round went well, the tire plug held. The drive-line noise was much worse, lasted all the way until 3rd gear, I actually almost bailed as the noise got louder, then changed tone, then went away.. Went another personal best of 9.63@145 and got the win!

Today the tire was flat,not surprised. Looked under the car and the noise was the drive shaft hitting the floor bored due to the amount of movement in the rear carrier bearing. I'll have to find a solution for that soon. Plans as of now are to fix the drive shaft, and make sure the coupler doesn't come off again. Then I'll toss the 16g back on and try to break the 16G record again. I've gotten lots of positive feed back about the car, and after not getting any money for winning the SAT class, the feedback makes me feel great! Need to thank Kiggly racing, Fuel Injector Clinic, ECM Link, and everyone else that has helped me along the way!

Pics:

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Love this pic! thanks
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Test pass pre-shootout:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q33AVoZBhw]First pass on the F3SA turbocharger - YouTube[/ame]

Qualifying Video:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRRpuFVSlmw]Force Engineering 9.73 pass on the F3SA turbo! 2013 DSM/EVO/GT-R Shootout - YouTube[/ame]

Final Round:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgB4gPVXm_c]Force Engineering SAT Finals; Winning Pass 9.63 @ 145mph - YouTube[/ame]
 
extremely interested in the details of this turbo, where do i get one?
 
extremely interested in the details of this turbo, where do i get one?

From us (Force Engineering) ill have my sales guy (Andy) pm you in the am. Thanks for the interest!
 
Great job Tyler! :thumb: The car performed really well at the shootout all in all in my opinion. Thank goodness your dad was able fix the valve on the vacuum pump. :thumb: Sorry I didn't stop to say hi and meet you. I always get caught up and overwhelmed by everything and never get to talk to 90% of the people I want to. :toobad: I saw you a couple times and I knew you were busy, so I didn't want to bother you.

Anyway, I have some good videos of your passes that I have to put up yet, but when I do I'll post them here so you can see them. :)
 
Amazing work you did here... Im so jealous

Thanks man!

Great job Tyler! :thumb: The car performed really well at the shootout all in all in my opinion. Thank goodness your dad was able fix the valve on the vacuum pump. :thumb: Sorry I didn't stop to say hi and meet you. I always get caught up and overwhelmed by everything and never get to talk to 90% of the people I want to. :toobad: I saw you a couple times and I knew you were busy, so I didn't want to bother you.

Anyway, I have some good videos of your passes that I have to put up yet, but when I do I'll post them here so you can see them. :)

Thanks! I didn't get a chance to talk to many people either so I understand. Between the 2 cars we stayed pretty busy. Cant wait to see the videos!
 
Here's one of them I have up right now Tyler. The car is so nice to watch. Comes out smooth and keeps pulling hard. :cool:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ot2dJQn6s&feature=player_detailpage]Tyler Force Engineering 9.73 @ 143mph (dsm/evo/gtr shootout 2013) HD - YouTube[/ame]
 
Keep em coming man!! Love the vid BTW..
 
That does not surprise me. I understand that they are trying to make a budget product for the masses, and this is fine, but that means that the parts get cast/rough machined by the lowest bidder. The consequences from this are what happened here. Not every rod will be perfect, ether from heat treat, forging, or machining. Yes it sux, but sh*t happens. I've been building engines long enough to know that sometimes you get screwed and its no ones fault. On the same note, we have replaced Eagle rods with K1 rods for our builds. I'm not saying that the K1 is a way superior product, they might come from the same place, but it helps me sleep at night.

On another note, I have the engine sitting in the car, but i will not be able to finish it up tonight, but it will be running tomorrow, and baring any huge problems at work, I plan to have it on the rollers again tomorrow night.

Just snap a Eagle clean in half. and just like Tyler post in the other trend he post.

Pics of Eagle vs Manley Rods....


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/maintenance-repairs/472010-help-me-choose-pistons-rods.html
 
Thought I'd take a few minutes and update everyone following this.

How the car sat right after shootout

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Fixed this gasket and a boost leak at the compressor outlet (Both happened before shootout), and made a few dyno passes

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Car made 546whp at 38psi, was 509 @ 41psi with the leaks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz0ByoMyKAY

Change a few things on the car over the winter and I'm still working on finishing everything up. I finally pulled more weight out of the pig, gutted all the wiring, which was 54lbs! and remove the sway bars, the rest of the heater box, and a hand full of other things.

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Sold my DSMlink and moved to a Haltech Sport 1000 ECU with a hand full of goodies that allow me to log several different channels of data to further our R&D at the shop. The ECU works directly to the IQ3 dash, so i removed all my gauges and purchased the IQ3.

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Also went through the engine, Added and a crank trigger setup to work with Haltech setup. I'm also trying a new "rough" port finish in an attempt to keep fuel suspended. Engine was in perfect shape, didn't need to change the bearings, or the rings. Added an oil heater so I can start the car in the winter.

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I sold the Hawver intake and bought a Magnus V3 manifold with dual rail setup.

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Also bought so new shoes :)

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I've also sold the FS3A turbo we had been using. I'm moving to a Forced Performance FP Black Journal bearing charger. I'm also using an FP race manifold. Other changes will be full exhaust, full interior. Added a parachute as well. Setting a goal of an 8.80 ET as I believe that would put me in the top 25 DSMs. Lots to come, Charger should be here Monday. Also have some interesting wiring to come, should be cool. Hope you guys like what I'm turning the car into! I'm looking forward to more street miles than ever this year, maybe running points at our local track for bracket racing, and lots more :)
 
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