So in the state of Minnesota you can take a few different tests for different kinds of colleges. State colleges, technical colleges, etc. I'm sure most states do. A few months back I took what is called the Accuplacer. This test has MANY variants based on the type of college you're going to attend, as well as what exact college you are going to. It even depends what course you are planning on taking. This was taken from one of the many websites that have something to do with said test: "ACCUPLACER is a suite of tests that determines your knowledge in math, reading and writing as you prepare to enroll in college-level courses. ACCUPLACER is used to identify your strengths and weaknesses in each subject area and to help you improve your skills through interactive online learning tools. The results of the assessment, in conjunction with your academic background, goals and interests, are used by academic advisors and counselors to place you in the appropriate college courses that meet your skill level".

Now in the reading and writing parts I scored quite a bit above what I was supposed to. The math part however; not so much. My weakness was dividing but more specifically dividing decimals and fractions. There may have been some multiplying with those as well.

During this test you are allowed scratch paper and a pencil; that is it. You are not allowed to use a calculator. This is the part that really get's me: Why am I not allowed to use a calculator to calculate numbers when that is what I am used to?

Please remember the part where I mentioned all of the different factors that effect this test (state, college type, college, course). I myself am going to school for High Performance Engine Machining. Engine machining itself takes quite a bit of math. When moving into High Performance it is taken to a whole different. Everything has to be spot on and exact. There cannot or at least should not be any sort of guessing or rough estimating. When it comes to calculating things in an engine you have to use math.

When doing math, I personally like to be exact. A calculator helps me accomplish this. Fractions themselves seem to not be quite "exact". That or they simply do not portray what I personally need to see to help me understand the outcome. I can say this right now; while in school (and when graduated), I guarantee I will have a calculator by my side 24/7 to help me make sure everything is exact. I do not know why one would do it any other way. When it comes to a test like this, why isn't this taken into consideration? I mean, they limit the test in all sorts of other ways.

Since having failed the math section of the test, I now have to take a math course while in school. This is NOT a required course if (and only if), you pass the math section of the Accuplacer. I also have to pay to take this class.

Is it just me or is it very unfair that a person should have to pay to take a class as well as lose time in their main class, just to satisfy someone else? In all reality that is what I am doing. I am taking a class on a certain subject so I can be tested again so someone can say "This person has met/failed the requirements to what we think he/she needs to know."

Personally I am satisfied that I cannot do the things that cost me to fail the test. I feel I have other ways of solving said problems. I also feel that when the time comes to learn to do a certain thing, I should learn it then and there. Not have to learn it now, possibly forget it, then have to relearn it again int he future.

I guess that'll be the end of my rant. Feel free to respond!

Thanks for reading!

Well, they feel that if you can't do the problems in your head, or even on a scratch sheet of paper, but instead need a calculator, then you have no real understanding of the basis for progression of the course. If you can't do it, how can they expect you to learn how to do advanced equations or trig. Which, my friend, in that line of work, will be used quite regularly. Take me for instance. I am an industrial machinist, which means I go through the same day to day problems that you will as an engine machinist. If I couldn't do simple math problems such as knowing what half of 5/16" is, or what .984" is in metric, and had to consult a calculator for each one, it would cause me to be much slower at my job, in turn effecting work load, pay, etc. And trust me, you will encounter that most of the day once you begin machining.

Much like the compass we have here. I did awful in math and English. (Go figure ) mostly being out of school for a while and while my GI BILL covered it is the only reason I decided to take "remedial" courses. I banks over 2 grand a semester.

It's up to you. My "remedial" math class was dumb and all on computer where on the first 3 chapters I couldn't have a calculater, but I got to have one on the compass test.

What they did here is. If the teacher thinks your ready after a certain amount of time. They can place you I a free compass test and if you pass you get CR For the rest of the class and don't have to show up. Like I said. I bank money every semester and every month. Do what you want

Good luck.

Oh yeah. Fu$& math!!!

Cdc1221 said:

Well, they feel that if you can't do the problems in your head, or even on a scratch sheet of paper, but instead need a calculator, then you have no real understanding of the basis for progression of the course. If you can't do it, how can they expect you to learn how to do advanced equations or trig. Which, my friend, in that line of work, will be used quite regularly. Take me for instance. I am an industrial machinist, which means I go through the same day to day problems that you will as an engine machinist. If I couldn't do simple math problems such as knowing what half of 5/16" is, or what .984" is in metric, and had to consult a calculator for each one, it would cause me to be much slower at my job, in turn effecting work load, pay, etc. And trust me, you will encounter that most of the day once you begin machining.

Click to expand...

I can completely understand what you're trying to say. Should they not be doing these things to evaluate us at one point, then let the college do it again whenever they feel fit? To expect us to know how to do things we'll be learning later on down the road is a little ridiculous, if you ask me.

Who knows; maybe I'm far off.

DSMBanditFZ6 said:

Much like the compass we have here. I did awful in math and English. (Go figure ) mostly being out of school for a while and while my GI BILL covered it is the only reason I decided to take "remedial" courses. I banks over 2 grand a semester.

It's up to you. My "remedial" math class was dumb and all on computer where on the first 3 chapters I couldn't have a calculater, but I got to have one on the compass test.

What they did here is. If the teacher thinks your ready after a certain amount of time. They can place you I a free compass test and if you pass you get CR For the rest of the class and don't have to show up. Like I said. I bank money every semester and every month. Do what you want

Good luck.

Oh yeah. Fu$& math!!!

Click to expand...

I appreciate the good luck given'! I do not hate math, I just NEED to know exactly how to do what I am doing before I attempt to do it. Sometimes I have to look back at notes on something I've been doing all day, just because I am not confident in my ability to do it. That comes from the few assignments I have received back (in high school), that I needed to redo.

I'm sure you've covered alot of that stuff in high school.

DSMBanditFZ6 said:

I'm sure you've covered alot of that stuff in high school.

Click to expand...

That is one of the main problems; we've covered it all! At the rate at which the teacher taught us, I was almost always 4-6 assignment behind. I wasn't the only person either!

We cover so much stuff in school now, it isn't even funny. You pretty much have to learn a chapter as fast as possible, then move onto worrying about the next one. Rather than trying to remember the one you just finished. Or the one before that, and so on.

I know. How it seemed like to me. I would know it, take the test. Pass or fail. Thennn ...... Brain dump.

I can read a tape an convert most things, the rest of that stuff. Meh. Now, converting lbs to kg, then controlling the flow of 500ml bag of fluid for 6 hrs and setting the dial for the patient and how many cc's of medicine to push in said bag to give the patient. Now that's a chore.

Oh yeah. Fu$& math. But we gotta know it.......

A fraction is a much more exact answer than a decimal.

There's nothing wrong with evaluating your retention of principles, rules, etc to place you in classes ESPECIALLY if you're fresh out of HS where math is pretty much a given for at least a couple of years.

Sure, most places you can use available tools, but you cite doing well in English principles...almost every form/program you can type in has a built in spell checker or grammar checker, so why bother with that, either?

### ###! Peeps still bees tAlken lyk dys.

Why did it censor C U Z, C U Z?? Lol

NosLaser said:

A fraction is a much more exact answer than a decimal.

Click to expand...

This is a majority of the reason.

They have to know you have a grasp of the simple to be able to proceed to the advanced.

In calculus a lot of the times you will be asked for the exact value of something. If you plug it into a calculator you will get a number that is not the exact value, since the calculator will only calculate to a certain decimal place.

For examle 1/3 is not equal to .333333333, it's only approximately equal to it since you can never get to that last 3, if that makes sense.

Also, division and multiplication of fractions is really nothing other than knowing how to multiply. So if you can't do those then either you are terrible at a simple process and I say process (singular) because division and multiplication of fractions are nearly identical processes, or you are terrible at the simplest form of multiplication. Both of which should be mastered by the time one enters college.

Either way, the college has to know where they can place you. Can't really throw you into college algebra, trig, or calculus if you can't even handle simple math.

Oh, please don't take that as a personal attack, I'm not necessarily saying you, as in you. I'm saying you, as in a person.

What do you mean "you people"??

Just about every job that is worth having in the real world is going to require some proficiency in math. Math is why engineering degrees pay more than critique of women's sculpture degrees.

I know undoubtedly that someone is gonna read this and say something like "My uncle Chester sells dildos for a living and he failed math, and he makes two hundred grand a year!"

So yes, there are jobs out there that can pay well without math, but not everyone wants to sell dicks.

You know what's really cool? Math. You know what's not cool? Being an idiot.

That said OP, math takes TIME and repetition to master. Nobody just knows calculus for example; we all start at the same place going "What in the Sam blue hell is this shit? I thought an integral was a popular Japanese tuner car! What do you mean area under the curve?"

But if you want to succeed in life, you need to put in the time and learn it. Hire a tutor if you need one. Download Khan Academy and start watching some videos (it's free!). If you put in the time, you will succeed, but I am telling you, it doesn't happen overnight, so don't feel bad if you don't immediately get it, just keep at it and don't give up.

And remember, don't practice just to get it right, practice to never get it wrong.

That's my inspirational quote you can relate to math.

NosLaser said:

Just about every job that is worth having in the real world is going to require some proficiency in math. Math is why engineering degrees pay more than critique of women's sculpture degrees.

I know undoubtedly that someone is gonna read this and say something like "My uncle Chester sells dildos for a living and he failed math, and he makes two hundred grand a year!"

So yes, there are jobs out there that can pay well without math, but not everyone wants to sell dicks.

You know what's really cool? Math. You know what's not cool? Being an idiot.

That said OP, math takes TIME and repetition to master. Nobody just knows calculus for example; we all start at the same place going "What in the Sam blue hell is this shit? I thought an integral was a popular Japanese tuner car! What do you mean area under the curve?"

But if you want to succeed in life, you need to put in the time and learn it. Hire a tutor if you need one. Download Khan Academy and start watching some videos (it's free!). If you put in the time, you will succeed, but I am telling you, it doesn't happen overnight, so don't feel bad if you don't immediately get it, just keep at it and don't give up.

Click to expand...

I had several ques on that dick comment, but none of them typed out right! Length and girth? Haha

Il just go work for haan anyways. I heard they are doing crazy shit in Tokyo.

I must admit. I get super frustrated with math. A bunch of letters hanging out, getting in my face. I just study up and practice alot of what I will do in my career instead of the other crap.

I'll bump this back from the dead to say this; I do not suck at math but when I am given' a test and no formulas or anything to follow other than the question itself, I get lost. As do many others.

In my current math class, "Math Foundations", I am two chapters ahead already. I have hit a few snags but it has been nothing that I couldn't get over in a matter of minutes. Thus how far I have already come.

It all comes down to knowing what you need to know, rather than knowing anything and everything possible when it comes to math. As I expected, we learn whichever formulas we need for machining certain things as we go. So really, all anyone needs to know is basic math. Hell, coming out of high school, I feel I would have been fine. I am in the class however, so I am going to consider it a good opportunity to bush up on my math skills.

Math is all about finding exact answers rather than just dividing any random number by another to just get the answer. Sure you can take pi/2 and get 1.57.... But why not just keep it as pi/2. As you get into higher math, exact answers will help you keep your equation in order and makes it a lot easier to work with. Laser said it best, take the time to learn and make the best out of that time and you will get better. Calculus is all about taking time. I don't know anyone who can look at a calc problem who's never seen it before or familiar with calculus and solve it. Good luck with whatever classes you take. Take good notes and do the work!!

NosLaser said:

Just about every job that is worth having in the real world is going to require some proficiency in math. Math is why engineering degrees pay more than critique of women's sculpture degrees.

I know undoubtedly that someone is gonna read this and say something like "My uncle Chester sells dildos for a living and he failed math, and he makes two hundred grand a year!"

So yes, there are jobs out there that can pay well without math, but not everyone wants to sell dicks.

You know what's really cool? Math. You know what's not cool? Being an idiot.

That said OP, math takes TIME and repetition to master. Nobody just knows calculus for example; we all start at the same place going "What in the Sam blue hell is this shit? I thought an integral was a popular Japanese tuner car! What do you mean area under the curve?"

But if you want to succeed in life, you need to put in the time and learn it. Hire a tutor if you need one. Download Khan Academy and start watching some videos (it's free!). If you put in the time, you will succeed, but I am telling you, it doesn't happen overnight, so don't feel bad if you don't immediately get it, just keep at it and don't give up.

Click to expand...

Best post in this thread. Repetition and plus one for khan academy.

In my personal opinion if you need to rely on a calculator to solve math problems then you do not know math. Anyone can can punch in numbers and symbols they see on a piece of paper and let the device do the real work. Hell you could probably train a monkey to use a calculator, but that doesn't mean they know or understand what it is they are doing. In school i never used a calculator even when it was allowed. I always considered it cheating. The point of a test is to determine your knowledge on a subject, not your ability to use a device to arrive at your answer.

Completely understand your frustrations about math... the entire time I was sitting in Geometry and Physics classes... I was like...when am i ever going to use this shit. 8 years later, im sitting at my desk as a 3D modeler/animator saying "Why didnt i just listen to the basics when someone was trying to teach me." and had to spend time going back and learning those basics on my own. 15 years later when im sitting at my computer trying to do programming for a website, I was saying "Why didnt I listen during the 4 math classes in high school, and the 3 math classes in college. Have to spend time doing a hack job til I can go back and learn the basics of programming.

Math has made the world go around for thousands of years. Mathematics and its understanding in the ancient world far exceeded ours. We actually think we are smarter people by todays standards because we have achieved so much, but we instititute so many crutches to have the work and concepts done for us that we lose that true understand of achievement. It may allow us to start from a position that is further along and possible get to a higher level, but the more crutches we institute, the further away from a true understanding we get, until after generations the true understanding becomes lost.

To put it into perspective. Take the art/design field that i am in. A lot of people that I went to college with for computer animation, couldnt pick up a pencil and draw for shit and always complained about having to go through traditional drawing and design classes instead of getting straight to the computer stuff. Some people will flat out fail because they have no artistic instincts.. most failed because they refuse to see the value in the basics and want to rush straight to the computer part. 90% failed or never made it. The people who excelled with pencil and paper are the industry contacts that i still talk to today because they did make it. The computer is a tool. The artist was built inside a long time ago from pencils, charcoal, triangles and Tsquares.. Anyone of us can pick up any tool whether pencil, ink, spray can, computer, different programs and after learning the basics of that, will precede to create and become better than most people who take the digital route only... It maybe harder to find an art job that is not digital., but having a sense of design and an eye for detail is developed outside of a computer. To this day even though 100% of my work is digital... i still spend most of my time with a pencil and paper developing the idea and the design before I even touch the computer because in the end a majority of the work load is going to come from my head and abilities, the computer is just going to bring it to completion.

Most people are so concerned about making money and getting straight to their career that it ends up being this cut and paste type mess of learning things on the fly when it becomes relevant. WOrks for some but for quite a few people it leads to frustration, stress, and hinders production. Learn the basics once and you wont have to come back to it because the true understanding will always be there...Kind of like measure twice, cut once. If you have a true passions for cars... you will learn everything about how they work. If you just want to go fast, youll slap a bunch of parts on, burn up engines, and cut and paste your way down the dragstrip just to make it to the end.

Learn the basics while people are there to teach you the basics, cause in the real world, youre expected to know them already, not to fake your way through it.

LandoAWD said:

What do you mean "you people"??

Click to expand...

Immediately made me think of this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP9zSNVYWeA&feature=youtube_gdata_player