Yep. I was right I was a tooth off on both sides. Got in a hurry putting it back together. All is well now. I tore into it last night found out what I did wrong fixed it and its running great now. I can really notice the difference over stock. I'm using skunk2 evo8 cams not stock so I don't know how big a difference the stock ones will make. Will be updating later.

UPDATE: ORIGINAL POST ON HOW TO HAS BEEN UPDATED. If you are installing evo8 cams in your dsm please read or reread posts on how to do it.

Another pic of what I did to the timing plate.
The holes in the middle are the original holes. The other set of holes not used I did by accident so ignore them.

wow, some really awesome info MJ. good read too. thanks for keeping us posted on this, i may have to try it myself considering ive had a set of evo cams laying around here.

stacked1G said:

wow, some really awesome info MJ. good read too. thanks for keeping us posted on this, i may have to try it myself considering ive had a set of evo cams laying around here.

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Thanks man. This is the only thing i have to drive so you can trust it works. Just remember though this is with Cam sensor behind the Cam gear (95+96 style) for 1gs and 97+ plus style Cam sensor you still have to reverse intake and exhaust cams and machine a new slit for your CAS. I'm not sure with stock evo 8 cams being hollow if you can cut a slit in the intake Cam then drill and tap a hole in it.

Earlier in this thread its said to work if you swap the cams around and cut a new slot in the exhaust cam which you use as the intake gear. My THOUGHTS on doing this is:
cam timing will have to be exactly opposite of what I did. As for making the new slit simply turn the Cam till its flat (horizontal) then place a ruler or straight edge in line with it. Then rotate Cam to correct timing and use the ruler to mark where your new slot will go.

I am a little foggy on the intake cam side. I put the intake cam in on the intake side of my 6 bolt. Like you said, my timing mark on the adjustable cam gear was slightly below the head level in a bolted in position. When I do the timing belt, should I rotate it clockwise slightly so the timing mark is lined up with the head? If I do that, I will have spring pressure on the lobes. Or, should I just adjust my cam gear to where the mark is in the proper location.
The exhaust cam dropped in just fine. Like a stock cam, with the timing mark ending up where it should be with the adj. Cam gear.

I'm not sure if you can use the intake Cam in its proper place in a six bolt because there is no slot or thread part for your CAS? The evo8 using its exhaust gear for the CAS.

If you put the bottom end in time and you rotate your Cam clockwise you should hit spring pressure then the piston. You don't want to rotate clockwise. When I timed my cams with my stock gears I rotated it counter clockwise into slight spring pressure. Its harder for me to tell you since with adj. Gears you can move your Cam without changing the timing Mark. Are they both adj? Or just the intake? I had no spring pressure on the exhaust side and counterclockwise pressure on the intake second set of lobes from the rear of the engine were the ones giving the pressure.

So what I did was set the intake Cam in place rotate it counterclockwise into spring pressure then let it turn back off the pressure. Set the timing belt around the bottom end around the tensioner pulley around the exhaust gear. Then place it over the intake gear then rotate counterclockwise into spring by one tooth on the timing belt and that should be correct. Hold it on the gear as without it around idler pulley it will slip, then while holding it reach down and put it around the idler pulley.
Should be in time then.

So basically exhaust timing Mark is 13 teeth counterclockwise from stock dsm timing set in with no spring pressure.
Intake Cam timing Mark is 8 1/2 dips (since original dsm Mark is in a super not on a tooth) counterclockwise from original dsm timing Mark with one timing belt tooth of spring pressure.

Ok. I will take a picture when I get home. It will help me understand and you can use it in the guide, and it will help out others also. Both cam gears are adjustable, and they both have the 2 holes for the pins, 1 hole marked evo. Thanks.
I also cut a slot in the intake cam where the 6 bolt cas slides into the cam. I'm not to worried if I'm off a couple of degrees, because the cas is adjustable, so I can compensate for the timing.

Here is a picture of the exhaust and intake cams bolted to the adjustable can see cam gears. This is how the timing marks line up with the cam dowels set in the evo holes and the cams installed similar to the stock cams, with the lobes closest to the gears pointing mostly up.
my question is: rotating the intake clockwisewill allow the timing marks to line up. You are saying move the intake counterclockwise 1 tooth passed the current position. at this current position, either direction will result in spring pressure being felt. with that said, and what you see in the picture, still go one tooth COUNTERCLOCKWISE? thanks for the help.

Ok, after taking the gears off and switching to the dsm dowel positions, then turning the intake counter clockwise makes perfect sense.

I believe I was thrown off by how the intake cam is needing a slight bit of spring pressure. This is because of the valve angle discussed earlier. Turning it counter clockwise does indeed position the lobes very close to where the stock lobes would be. Also the increased valve lift of the cam would also cause spring resistance not seen in the stock cam. Now, who is doing the how to thread? I am NOT ready to drop this in. I still have some loose ends to tie up. I'm not even ready to put the belt on yet! So if you need pics. Pm me.
Eric

Has any noticed that when using the evo ex cam as an ex cam in the dsm that the cam sensor slot will partially open the oil feed hole every 180degrees?

I'am using an after market cam but I assume factory ones are the same.

Interesting, I will have to check this out. My engine is still on the stand.

Finally got around to checking that exhaust cam oil feed hole, and on my block, I can't see or feel any oil passage what so ever.....machine tolerances? Way to be on the look out.
Sorry guys if this is taking too long.
My engine in my talon is lasting longer then I thought it would. Honestly, these lil 4 bangers are a lot tougher then the community gives them credit for. I beat this thing on a daily basis, 15-18 psi and 6500 rpm, and still going strong. I have a low idle tapping noise I can't figure out, sounds like a loose converter bolt, or cracked flex plate, but from the drivers side of the oil pan. Oil pressure isa dismal 10 pounds at idle, but shoots up to 75 once I take off normally from a red light. Holds steady at 75 cruising too.I might get to drop it in around Aug. Fingers crossed!

I just checked mine the other day as I was putting it back together. My cams, do not open the oil hold at all either. Car runs good on these cams.

Ignore my accent on the phone i hate the way i sound. Real life i dont sound like that. Anyways some more help with this install. Had to cut out start up because i had two wires mixed up and didn't realize it. But once i noticed i switched them andit ran just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UJZL9JIYH0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I just stumbled into this thread. There is one thing I didn't see in the last few pages that I think may have been missed and is EXTREMELY important.

Mitsu 4g63 cam profiles are asymmetric lobes to keep the accelerations in control. The grinds are designed to compensate for the offset rocker geometry. This must be maintained. This means an EVO 8 intake cam must become a DSM exhuast cam and an EVO 8 exhuast cam must become a DSM intake cam.

If you don't flip the cams like this, the intake opening accelerations will be crazy and closing accelerations will be completely wimpy. The exhaust will have the opposite story.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kiggly is right. I never thought about it till he mentioned it. The ramp rates will be incorrect if you use the cams in respective positions. They must be reversed.

Like he said, if not the ramp rates will be reversed. Meaning the intake will open quick but close slow, causing you to lose compression as the will be open too long after bdc. And exhaust will open slow and close fast making poor expellation.

I already reversed my cams last night and will get a count of teeth of where your cam gears should be. Its set up just like photos attached. This is how they should be.

If you have adjustable gears with both holes your dsm dowel pins need to look like in the photos.

For 1g and late 2gs or 2g with 1g cas the slot should be cut straight across inline with the red dot on the evos exhaust cam, described as intake in the photo.

95_96 cam trigger plates will need new holes drilled to relocate it correctly. The location pin will need to be cut off it so it can be rotated. Ill try to make a vid later explaining how to do so. Basically it though it just needs to be moved the same amount of rotation the cam was moved but in the opposite direction.

Mines are flipped like kiggly said. Running perfect. Timed at +15/-15.
Also i have done some extra machining to them. Check this out!
New dowel pin holes, same positions as stock cams.

Timing now is even more practical!

Exxxel said:

Mines are flipped like kiggly said. Running perfect. Timed at +15/-15.
Also i have done some extra machining to them. Check this out!
New dowel pin holes, same positions as stock cams.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Timing now is even more practical!

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Nice! making the second dowel pins would definitely be a help. Nice work. I'm going to drill mine sometime as they are not hollow unfortunately.

Bumping up an old thread. Iv been running my evo 8 272 cams in the same orientation as factory intake/intake exhaust/exhaust. So to get my head around this because the rocker roller doesn't sit directly below the cam and a mirror image on the other side it affects the way it ramps up? So if you have an evo inlet cam beside a DSM inlet cam looking longways down it (assume the ramp rate difference is visual to the eye) you would see the steeper ramp rate on opposite sides of the lobe for both inlets and exhausts?
Are most matched cams (inlet/exhaust) usually close specs between both, like a kelford 272/272? Im thinking about running some evo 8 Tomei 280 pro cams and If I can run run them straight up without having to mill a new cam sensor slot that would be even better.

caged said:

Bumping up an old thread. Iv been running my evo 8 272 cams in the same orientation as factory intake/intake exhaust/exhaust. So to get my head around this because the rocker roller doesn't sit directly below the cam and a mirror image on the other side it affects the way it ramps up? So if you have an evo inlet cam beside a DSM inlet cam looking longways down it (assume the ramp rate difference is visual to the eye) you would see the steeper ramp rate on opposite sides of the lobe for both inlets and exhausts?
Are most matched cams (inlet/exhaust) usually close specs between both, like a kelford 272/272? Im thinking about running some evo 8 Tomei 280 pro cams and If I can run run them straight up without having to mill a new cam sensor slot that would be even better.

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The cams are made to open the intake valves slow so you can squeeze in as much air/fuel as possible. Then close fast so its not open as the piston starts its way back up giving max compression.
Vise versa for exhaust. Its made to open fast but close slow so it stays open as long as possible expelling max exhaust gases. Also helping the intake draw in/scaveging which is valve overlap. Thats Another aspect of cams though.
If you 180° the cams without changing their position you reverse open and closing speeds(ramp rates). Which will become an increasing issue with increasing power.

I ran the cams the way you did fit awhile without issues but now understanding what kiggly brought to mind, I have changed to use them in reverse order. I would not reccomend using them in their respective places but reverse them as stated. All cams will be made for its respective cars orientation so buying the Tomeis tig should still reverse their order.

I'm still confused. It has to be the rocker geometry the cams ramp rates are ground to fix, because both intake and exhaust use the same lobe face of the cam to push on the rocker and open the valve. So if the intake opens fast and exhaust opens slow in the DSM and the Evo and you swap the intake and exhaust cams then you end up with the opposite UNLESS the ramp rates differ to fix the geometry difference. I'm not having ago at anyone Im just trying to wrap my head around it. And yes if I get the tomei's I'll run the inlet as exhaust and exhaust as inlet.

kiggly said:

Mitsu 4g63 cam profiles are asymmetric lobes to keep the accelerations in control. The grinds are designed to compensate for the offset rocker geometry.
Thanks,
Kevin

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caged said:

I'm still confused. It has to be the rocker geometry the cams ramp rates are ground to fix

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:thumbup:

Haha I need to read a bit better. Thanks for pointing that out.

caged said:

Haha I need to read a bit better. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Anytime

Just to know, did you measured the actual valve timings & overlap? (assumed at 0 mark on both cam gears)

Evo8 overhaul manual says:
- intake opens 21*BTDC
- exhaust closes 18*ATDC

right?

Exxxel said:

Just to know, did you measured the actual valve timings & overlap? (assumed at 0 mark on both cam gears)

Evo8 overhaul manual says:
- intake opens 21*BTDC
- exhaust closes 18*ATDC

right?

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How did I time it?
I used stock gears and my eyeball . And modified the 95/96 cam timing plate.

MJcanada said:

How did I time it?
I used stock gears and my eyeball . And modified the 95/96 cam timing plate.

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ah, ok...
you need a dial indicator to catch the valve movement, and a timing wheel to read the angles...

Take a look to this writeup!
4G63 Camshaft Degreeing

I have degreed my cams to get a 30* overlap (15/15)