The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support Fuel Injector Clinic
Please Support Fuel Injector Clinic

Decent, cost effective brake setup.

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

AngelOfPassion

10+ Year Contributor
1,013
4
Jul 5, 2011
Mesa, Arizona
My brake setup in my build journal just isn't up to par from what people are saying. Problem is I have no experience with brakes. I don't know what works, what doesn't, what falls apart after 2 laps, what overheats, etc...

If any of you can help me from sharing what has worked and not worked in the past for you for trips on a road course I would really appreciate it.

Here is a copy/paste from my build journal with what I had picked out:

RRE Slotted Rotors
Porterfield R4-S Brake Pads
SS Brake Lines
3G Brake Booster

Thanks in advance. I just want to learn what works and what doesn't from what you guys have done in the past.
 
I've been running the Baer setup with cross drilled and slotted 13.1" rotors. It's hard to describe how much better they other than saying they're night and day. They are just supremely better in pedal feel, stopping and resisting fade. The factory brakes, no matter what pads you put on them are just not that great with our heavy GSX's.

I don't think the setup I have is sold by Baer anymore. But, I will be selling my setup very soon once I get back from my deployment for a VERY good price. Keep an eye on the classifieds

If you want to get the same setup now however brand new, you can get the Cobra kit-same caliper without the Baer logo. Or you can piece it together if you want to get them super cheap. You might even be able to find some in a junkyard. The calipers are made by PBR in Australia and were also used on C4 corvettes, so there are tons of pad options. Caliper code is J55.
 
I have tried three setups that I feel have worked really well.

AEM big rotor kits front and rear with R4S pads in stock 2G calipers. This is a great setup, I couldn't ask for anything better in a street car - stops every bit as well as an Evo 8/9. A great setup, the best bang for the buck possible, but unfortunately the kits no longer available, and even replacement rotors are NLA :-( If replacement rotors were available I'd still be running this setup.


3KGTVR4 front calipers with Supercar Engineering 2-piece rotors in the front, Evo 8/9 rear calipers with Girodisc 2-piece rotors rear; 2G booster w/3G master, Carbotech AX6 pads all round. This setup is in my autocross car, and when this setup works it is just great. However I've been plagued with a long soft pedal since the install which we haven't been able to resolve. But when it works, it's like hitting a wall. Caliper adapter brackets for the VR4 calipers are aluminium items from Tuners Nation, which means they are no longer available unfortunately.

Evo 8/9 front & rear calipers, Galant VR<something> JDM/Euro uprights (because they get all the great cars), Baer 2-piece rotors and Girodisc pads all round. 2G booster and 3G master. I don't like the pads, they're like Hawk HPS only worse (is that possible ?), but with decent pads - R4S, AX6 - they would be excellent brakes. But even with the Girodisc pads, they're still far superior to stock, regardless of pad choice.

All of these setups run/ran SS lines and Motul RBF600 brake fluid.
 
As I said in your thread before, you are wasting your time with stock rotors unless you are replacing rotors + pads frequently, or take off a lot of weight on the car. Why are you upgrading the master cylinder for stock brakes?

Compound selection is much more limited with VR4 calipers vs Evo Brembo calipers. Compound selection also should be chosen for your tire selection (whatever that may be).

I'd just do it once and throw Brembo calipers at the car. IMHO you are wasting your time with anything else for the track, spare going for an upgraded front brake setup such as a Wilwood 4 pot ($$), AP 4 pot ($$$$), or Brembo Gran Turismo setup ($$$$, uses better than EVO calipers)
 
As I said in your thread before, you are wasting your time with stock rotors unless you are replacing rotors + pads frequently, or take off a lot of weight on the car. Why are you upgrading the master cylinder for stock brakes?

Compound selection is much more limited with VR4 calipers vs Evo Brembo calipers. Compound selection also should be chosen for your tire selection (whatever that may be).

I'd just do it once and throw Brembo calipers at the car. IMHO you are wasting your time with anything else for the track, spare going for an upgraded front brake setup such as a Wilwood 4 pot ($$), AP 4 pot ($$$$), or Brembo Gran Turismo setup ($$$$, uses better than EVO calipers)

Haven't decided on track tires yet. And I do like the full evo Brembo idea. The wheels I am getting should be able to fit whatever brake selection I would like (within reason of course).

I just wanted to stop by and see what other people are using on the track. Hopefully some more road racers with chime in.
 
How much HP do you have and what is your full tank track weight with you in it?

That is something I will know WAY closer to completion. The power level though will be an EVO III 16g putting out about 20-22psi (or as much as it takes within reason once we start tuning). So 300-350hp range (hopefully) with a good tune. I would love to be pushing 30+lbs/min with that turbo. If not I may get a 68HTA in the future to get there and still have the quick spool.

I haven't weighed the car but to get a general idea I will be running Enkei PF01's. 17's about 19lbs each with 245/40/17's. The car does not have any air conditioning/ cruise control, misc stuff under the hood missing. Think clean, but streetable. The rear is gutted. No antennae motor, backseat, spare tire, washer fluid reservoir etc... There is no radio, amp, speakers or head unit. I will also have light weight seats installed (haven't decided what yet, maybe Corbeu's or Recarros). I need to look at safety ratings for those. The only thing I would be adding is a full weld in cage with 5 point harness' for both passenger and driver.

Long story short, probably still pretty darn close to stock weight really with optimistically 350hp... I will have to continue to try to find places to lose weight after I'm done with everything.

Edit: Just to clarify if you haven't read my build thread. I can't afford a full time road race car nor do I have the time for one. It's kinda like a road race/street build hybrid. I want it to be effective at the track and not have things failing on an all day event but still drive it home, change the tires and then drive up north or to a movie if I wanted. Hey, at least it's not my daily haha.
 
Stock weight, and 350hp, just get the evo brakes, oem rotors, and whatever pads the auto-x guys recommend. Of course vinyl coated braided brake lines, the front caliper adapters, and a 3g master cylinder are mandatory.

I use Carbotech pads on the road course but I have no idea if they work well in auto-x. The current pad compounds are awesome in that they are relatively low dust, the dust isn't sticky as crap, they have excellent bite, stopping power, and fade resistance, and they are very easy on the rotors. If you don't get any recommendations I strongly suggest calling up Carbotech and ask to speak with Danny as he will be of great help sorting out a good set of pads for you.
 
The Carbotech AX6 is a great autocross pad, from cold to however hot brakes can get in an autocross, the cf stays consistent throughout, no spikes as they heat up, they are completely predictable. I would imagine they would not withstand road course usage.

Scott McIntyre runs AX6 for autocross and I believe AX8 for road course - if he ever come out of hiding perhaps he can confirm this for us :D
 
That is something I will know WAY closer to completion. The power level though will be an EVO III 16g putting out about 20-22psi (or as much as it takes within reason once we start tuning). So 300-350hp range (hopefully) with a good tune. I would love to be pushing 30+lbs/min with that turbo. If not I may get a 68HTA in the future to get there and still have the quick spool.

At 20-22psi, you should be well over 30lbs/min, you should be at 38-39lbs/min.


Anyways, I recently upgraded to the 3G booster and 3G master cylinder while doing my ABS delete. I have everything for the VR4 4 piston caliper upgrade, but my wheels wouldn't clear the calipers. So this setup is just temporary (GSX calipers) until I can get spacers.

But, I did notice much better pedal feel and now requires much less pedal effort to slow down quick, with just the upgraded booster and MC. Although I don't know if it's considered an "upgrade" because it probably does not necessarily mean it will stop faster.
 
I love my brake setup Trenton, it's all personal preference when it comes to pedal feel though.
3g 8+9 brake booster (same size as the Evo's)
3g 17/16" brake master cylinder (same size as the Evo's)
AWD 2-piston front calipers
Evo Brembo 2-piston rear calipers
Hawk HPS pads
RotorPro CD/S rotors
SS brake lines​
Mycar FEELS like it stops harder with the above setup than it did when I was running the Evo 4-piston front calipers, of course it's just speculation without actual data to back it.

:dsm:
 
VTECTHIS has reposted a baer front/aem rear kit for $900. If you dont get it, im probably gonna snatch it up if he still has it next month. That combo is NICE.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions guys! It is really helpful. And who said I was doing autocross? Lol. I don't know where you guys got that from. Definitely was always talking about road course haha. Im on my phone so I'm not going to go into detail on each reply but thank you again for all the info. It is good to see what is working for everyone.

And Corey, I remember you suggesting that brake setup to me a long time ago and I think I incorporated some of it into my build but not all of it so I guess that is my bad LOL
 
Weird, I have no idea why I thought you were only interested in auto-x...

My brake system recommendation is the same for a road course focus, and I would use xp12 front and xp10 rear brake pads from carbotech for your hp and weight. I don't know what the AX line is but xp is what road course guys use. You won't be able to drive on the street on these though, at least not unless you like squealing, dusting, and performance not quite right since the pads won't be hot enough, but if you're thinking you're going to find an all-in-one pad for both course and street you can forget about it now, you'll need to use separate pads for maximum performance. Use girodisc Magic pads for the street as those are terrific street pads with the least dust of any "performance" pad I've used.

Depending on how long you like to stay out on track and the temps you may find you need to add some things to keep things cool. Titanium brake shims are a start, and brake airflow deflectors like the evo has are supposed to work well (but you'll have to figure how to fab them up yourself). Last resort is some brake ducting which is a pita since we have so little room from the front of the car to the side of the brakes, but do-able.
 
Weird, I have no idea why I thought you were only interested in auto-x...

My brake system recommendation is the same for a road course focus, and I would use xp12 front and xp10 rear brake pads from carbotech for your hp and weight. I don't know what the AX line is but xp is what road course guys use. You won't be able to drive on the street on these though, at least not unless you like squealing, dusting, and performance not quite right since the pads won't be hot enough, but if you're thinking you're going to find an all-in-one pad for both course and street you can forget about it now, you'll need to use separate pads for maximum performance. Use girodisc Magic pads for the street as those are terrific street pads with the least dust of any "performance" pad I've used.

Depending on how long you like to stay out on track and the temps you may find you need to add some things to keep things cool. Titanium brake shims are a start, and brake airflow deflectors like the evo has are supposed to work well (but you'll have to figure how to fab them up yourself). Last resort is some brake ducting which is a pita since we have so little room from the front of the car to the side of the brakes, but do-able.

Are those the only negatives to driving those on the street? I mean how bad of squealing and dust are we talking about? Will they last OK on the street driving once or twice a week?

I really don't want to have to change my brakes every time I want to go to the track so that is bad news. Idk how long do those pads last under road race conditions anyways? Would I be changing brake pads all the time regardless?
 
You shouldn't use XP10 or 12 on the street, only AX6 or ... Bobcat ? Sticking with Carbotech for both uses also allows you to use the same rotors and not have to clean deposits off.

At least, that's what Mike Jr. told Scott & I :)

Since I only use my car for Solo and nothing else, the only pads it ever sees are AX6s, so I don't actually know first hand.
 
I highly recommend doing some sort or air cooling either with deflectors (good luck on a 2G), or ducts (again have fun).

My experience is rather limited to the following setups:
1) 2G calipers, R4E pads on both front and rear
2) BAER calipers on 12" BAER rotors, factory 2G rear calipers and rotors, R4E pads
3) BAER calipers on 13" Mustang Cobra rotors, factory 2G rear calipers and rotors, R4E pads

I was able to do a fair bit with Porterfield R4E pads front and rear with a factory setup. I suspect with some ducting it would even work on a road course fine. The lock and guide pins on the factory caliper were a servicing nightmare for me though with hard track duty.

Without any sort of ducting my 12" BAER rotor setup almost was good enough to prevent catching R4Es on fire. (Well smoldering.) The upgrade to a 13" rotor is now just barely enough. I've raced with Mustangs running a similar caliper and rotor with brake ducts and it is plainly obvious how much an improvement good ducting brings.

The Mustang with brake ducts was running *just* Hawk HP+ pads, while I was running Porterfield R4Es. The Mustang is almost the same weight as my car, horsepower was similar, but I had the traction edge due to tires. At the end of the session my Porterfields were done, almost smoldering, and the rotor was a very nice blue. His Hawk HP+ were fine and his rotors still looked grey. That is a massive difference in temperature. (Forgot to use my temp gun to compare the two.)

If you choose a fixed caliper (EVO and 3000GT) vs a floating caliper seen on the factory and Cobra setups you will likely get somewhat better pedal feel but also likely experience some pad knockback due to bearing tolerances and rotor run out.
 
Commentary on Carbotech XP pads for the road course:
Squealing - it's loud screeching. Older carbotechs race pads used to scream like banshees at almost all speeds until hot. Current ones I have only really squeal while cold at very low speeds, like slowing down to a light. A bit embarrassing but I'm driving around in a car covered in stickers with a 5" splitter 4" off the ground, a 13" high 70" wide wing, and 315 wide tires all around, so I'm all embarrassed out :)

Dust - After one track weekend my wheels are a dark gray. Luckily current gen carbotech xp pads create dust that easily comes off, even weeks later. Other race pads will produce as much or more dust AND it can be sticky as hell and acidit so if you leave it there longer than a couple days some of it is going to permanently attach to your wheel and/or damage the surface (yes, it sucks).

Life time - The XP pads last a long time for a race pad. I can see them last a couple years if you only do like 3-4 weekend events per year. In regards to rotors they definitely wear down rotors faster than street pads but I can't quantify "faster" for you as I don't keep a log.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it were me, I wouldn't want these pads on my car for the street if I was only going to the track a few times a year. Sure it's a couple hours to swap pads but it's worth it to not worry about the noise, the excess dust (which means cleaning my wheels every week), and decreased rotor life, not to mention the stopping distance issue.

Maybe the answer here for you, since you don't like to do track day prep like swapping pads, is to call up Carbotech and ask them what they think. Danny there will take the time to answer any questions you might have and might have some insights to give you the best solution.

The "Bobcat" name is gone now, I'm guessing replaced by the AX pads. Panthers I think were replaced by the XP12 pads but I am not 100% sure... the 12s seem to behave similarly (though without the nasty acidic dust the Panthers had).

ACM is right about the pad swappability with Carbotechs. I forgot about that. I didn't recommend their street pads because I don't have experience with them and loved the Magic Pads so much. Using a street and race pad from Carbotech means when swapping there is no need for re-bedding of pads for optimum performance.

Don't let the mention of knockback concern you one bit. You aren't going to have it unless you have really worn wheel bearings, and if that's the case you just need new wheel bearings and this is fairly infrequent.
 
Thank you guys. This is one of the most informative threads I've seen in a while, really enjoyed the reading.
 
I just remembered one other benefit of using Carbotech pads. They will pre-bed the pads for you, so you won't need to go through a bedding procedure when swapping in a new set. This may not be a big deal to some but personally I hate the risk of getting a ticket because I'm speeding up to 80 then slamming the brakes to 20 over and over on the highway :)
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top