Car will not crank

1991awdtalon · Jun 6, 2013

So I just picked up a 92 talon awd tsi. I drove it four hours to my driveway, parked it and it has not started since.
I have checked my grounds. I tried replacing the ecu, and rely beside it, starter, battery, for all known good ones.
What happens when i try to start it is the negative terminal and ground wire get hot. The car seems to suck the juice out of my battery and boost pack. I tried boosting with my 91 talon, and it died trying. I checked the wiring for stray wires and found a couple when the radio was. Radio fuse was blown. The 20 amp mpi fuse was blown, replaced that. Now I am stumped. Any input, and knowledge is greatly appriciated.

92AWDHX40 · Jun 6, 2013

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

1991awdtalon · Jun 6, 2013

iugrad92turbo said:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

I have performed all these fixes. Minus the starter relay. Would the starter still kick out euchre relay is bad? Cause it still kicks....DE :ohdamn:

1991awdtalon said:
I have performed all these fixes. Minus the starter relay. Would the starter still kick out euchre relay is bad? Cause it still kicks....DE

Please,help. Im out of ideas....

luv2rallye · Jun 6, 2013

If starter kicks out trying to engage you possibly have a bad or incorrect starter. Did you recently change starter, starter plate, tranny?

jmills187 · Jun 7, 2013

try pulling the starter and putting voltage to it .. could have a bad wire lead or plunger stuck.. hard telling also look for a short to ground in your main wiring harness

luv2rallye · Jun 7, 2013

Try hitting the starter with a hammer first. Sometimes it will free up a stuck starter. You'll still have to replace/fix the starter but at least then you'd know if that got it to work.

xxNocturnalxx · Jun 7, 2013

Jumper a wire from the battery to the signal post on the starter, if it turns then you know it's something between the ignition and the signal post.

1991awdtalon · Jun 7, 2013

luv2rallye said:
If starter kicks out trying to engage you possibly have a bad or incorrect starter. Did you recently change starter, starter plate, tranny?

It started just fine the first few times before my issue. I thought that i had a bad starter, so I seapped the starter with my 91 starter. The 91 fired up no problem with the 92 starter. The 92, same symtoms.
And no tranny work has been done.

jmills187 said:
try pulling the starter and putting voltage to it .. could have a bad wire lead or plunger stuck.. hard telling also look for a short to ground in your main wiring harness

I hear the starter kicking ouy. Is that not a sign that theres voltage to it?

xxNocturnalxx said:
Jumper a wire from the battery to the signal post on the starter, if it turns then you know it's something between the ignition and the signal post.

By signal post, do you mean positive connections?

SICK SOCIETY DSM90 · Jun 7, 2013

Yea does it just click when you turn the key?? I have an 90 tsi and when I bought it and drove it for a few months nothing was going wrong with it then one day I parked after a drive and tried to turn right back on. nothing but a clicking sound from starter had batter starter tested same thing just a click. Then I read on a forum on here if its an standard tranny then theres a little white connector for the clutch safety switch. Theres two next under the driver side dash by the fuse box. one skinny white connector and a fatter one. I disconnected the skinny white harness and started first try and haven't had a problem since. now If I plug it back in same thing will just click and act like im trying to steal it. LOL

just sounds like the symptoms I had hope it helps. If that's not it then to check if the starter is getting volts you can always use a voltmeter on the metal positive side post on starter mine read voltage even with car totally off. just something to check.

also I did read up in a forum since I am new to these cars if its a manual sometimes the flywheel will get stuck and will not allow starter to turn over car. there fix was to put it in gear and rock it a few times to try to disengage flywheel. I read the article about the no start and there's really not to much more you can do that article is really covering almost everything. if everything checks out then it should start unless your timing belt is snapped or your clutch is bad and holding onto the flywheel not allowing the car to start.

1991awdtalon · Jun 7, 2013

SICK SOCIETY DSM90 said:
Yea does it just click when you turn the key?? I have an 90 tsi and when I bought it and drove it for a few months nothing was going wrong with it then one day I parked after a drive and tried to turn right back on. nothing but a clicking sound from starter had batter starter tested same thing just a click. Then I read on a forum on here if its an standard tranny then theres a little white connector for the clutch safety switch. Theres two next under the driver side dash by the fuse box. one skinny white connector and a fatter one. I disconnected the skinny white harness and started first try and haven't had a problem since. now If I plug it back in same thing will just click and act like im trying to steal it. just sounds like the symptoms I had hope it helps. If that's not it then to check if the starter is getting volts you can always use a voltmeter on the metal positive side post on starter mine read voltage even with car totally off. just something to check.

also I did read up in a forum since I am new to these cars if its a manual sometimes the flywheel will get stuck and will not allow starter to turn over car. there fix was to put it in gear and rock it a few times to try to disengage flywheel. I read the article about the no start and there's really not to much more you can do that article is really covering almost everything. if everything checks out then it should start unless your timing belt is snapped or your clutch is bad and holding onto the flywheel not allowing the car to start.

Awesome post. Thanks for the bits of information that could help. I will check to see if starter is,getting volts. Its just on click from the starter. I did change it for a known good one. What should the starter read for volts on a start up??
I did all ready disengage the clutch safety switch. I will try the rocking while in gear. That sounds like a great idea. Ill get back with info tonight or tomorrow. And other ideas would be great. Thanks to all for the help so far.

SICK SOCIETY DSM90 · Jun 7, 2013

When I tested mine I was getting the same reading as the battery from the starter. the point you want to connect your positive volt meter is right no top where the plug clips on. Mine would read like 8 volts then on start up would spike up. I did this with one of my friend turn the car on. Also have you had the clutch replaced at all in the lifetime of the vehicle or lately you clutch maybe just staying engaged to the fly wheel. Also check you clutch master cylinder for proper fluid levels if it gets to low or air in system it will not allow clutch to fully disengaged even in natural. Just a little food for thought can not really pin point the problem as much since I am not there but hope something that's said helps you get your car on the road where it belongs LOL

. not very many still kicking.

xxNocturnalxx · Jun 8, 2013

1991awdtalon said:
By signal post, do you mean positive connections?

No, I mean the small wire that slips on to the starter tab, that's the signal post. It gets the signal from the ignition but some after market alarm system can cause disruption to that wire/system over time among other things.

SICK SOCIETY DSM90 · Jun 8, 2013

ya my starter has the ground wire and then a single small wire with a plastic connector I put the meter there with it still connected theres enough post there to get a good reading.

1991awdtalon · Jun 8, 2013

xxNocturnalxx said:
No, I mean the small wire that slips on to the starter tab, that's the signal post. It gets the signal from the ignition but some after market alarm system can cause disruption to that wire/system over time among other things.

I attached the starter via signal post. Kicks out the same as if I were starting it.

Ok, so a update.
Starter relay is good. Starter shows battery voltage until start, then drops to 4 volts.
I did notice a tranny bolt missing? I think. How many tranny bolts are there? And where are they located?
Also does any one know the bolt size for a replacement?

SICK SOCIETY DSM90 · Jun 8, 2013

You can usually just go to AutoZone or any other shops they can tell you how many bolts and usually can show you a diagram on what your looking at or you can look it up there are diagrams im sure. I have not done a tranny on a talon yet but others have guide bolts and some you put bolts in and some are not threaded for bolts. just got to do some research on how many there are and if your actually missing any bolts. missing bolts are bad on tranny and can cause shifting usually one loose one will not do anything but a few it will start to cause problems. hope you get it figured out.

Lou98GSX · Jun 8, 2013

that bolt thats missing might be the one that has the ground wire to it . try using your ground jumper cable . put one end on the battery negative and the other end on the transmission . use that as your ground to see if it cranks .

1991awdtalon · Jun 8, 2013

Lou98GSX said:
that bolt thats missing might be the one that has the ground wire to it . try using your ground jumper cable . put one end on the battery negative and the other end on the transmission . use that as your ground to see if it cranks .

I wish that were the problem. The starter ground is there. There is a bolt (looking from passenger side) to the upper right of the starter ground point. It there, but the one that's two inches to the right is missing.
At this point Im hoping it's missing another tranny bolt, and it's just needing to be bolted back up to align. But I dout it. This is killing me not being able to figure this out.

Im going to try and change out the alternator tomorrow......

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