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If the head gasket is blown, will it be visible after pulling the head?

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4gfun

Supporting VIP
2,009
55
Dec 10, 2007
Ask Me, Virginia
You all gave me a hand with letting me know how to tell if the block and head is warped so we are beyond that.

However, if the head gasket is "bad" when I pull the head, will it be visible? Should I lift the head slowly to take a close look or is it generally obvious?

Thanks
 
Look at the metal rings on the head gasket (rings that go around cylinder bores, not sure about their "correct" name). If it's blown you will see black marks on them. Will be same black carbon stuff that is inside of an exhaust pipe. Sometimes it will be a between cylinder and a coolant (or oil) hole. Post pictures of both sides of the gasket if you still have questions.
 
Thanks for the hint. It might be quite a while before I get to it but just trying to get prepared.

Thanks

Look at the metal rings on the head gasket (rings that go around cylinder bores, not sure about their "correct" name). If it's blown you will see black marks on them. Will be same black carbon stuff that is inside of an exhaust pipe. Sometimes it will be a between cylinder and a coolant (or oil) hole. Post pictures of both sides of the gasket if you still have questions.
 
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Here is an example of what what you are looking for.
Probably should have said "around", not "on [the rings]".

Credits go to whoever took the picture.
 
Very cool...will be back at some point...hopefully soon!!

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Here is an example of what what you are looking for.
Probably should have said "around", not "on [the rings]".

Credits go to whoever took the picture.
 
(rings that go around cylinder bores, not sure about their "correct" name).

The technical name is a Fire Ring. I know, creative. :)

But like 91-GS said, there will usually be damage to the fire ring and the material around it. The picture shown above is a Multi-Layer Steel headgasket which isn't as easily damaged. A Composite gasket (like the stock 4g63 gasket) will usually show much more damage from the leak, such as this:

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Very awesome. Cylinder #4 is filled with coolant. I bought the car like this taking a chance because even shells are getting rare.

Is #4 particularly prone to this for any common reason?

Thanks

The technical name is a Fire Ring. I know, creative. :)

But like 91-GS said, there will usually be damage to the fire ring and the material around it. The picture shown above is a Multi-Layer Steel headgasket which isn't as easily damaged. A Composite gasket (like the stock 4g63 gasket) will usually show much more damage from the leak, such as this:

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My gasket it between three and four was blone. But not because of warp. Personally i think it was because the pevious owner used a muilti layer gasket, and reused the stock head studs...
 
Very awesome. Cylinder #4 is filled with coolant. I bought the car like this taking a chance because even shells are getting rare.

Is #4 particularly prone to this for any common reason?

Thanks

No, nothing spectacular about #4. Usually problems arise between 2&3 because that's the 'hotter'part of the head.
 
Thanks all. I appreciate you all working with me on this.

So I did a compression check and found compression to be about 170 in that cylinder. All cylinders were between 155-170. The car doesn't overheat and moves.

I pulled the plug on #4 and it is wet with coolant. I know that I will have to tear into it to see what is going on but enjoy your thoughts.

There is a constant misfire on that cylinder. I thought that I'd lose compression in that cylinder with a head gasket (or related issue).

Thoughts on that one?

Thank you
 
You know whats just as bad.Pulling the head and finding a felt gasket.

Yeah,i found a felt one on mine..Replaced with an mls cometic if you were wondering..You mise well throw in a set of arp headstuds while ## in there.
 
^^ What do ya mean by felt? Im seen the composite gaskets fail directly due to detonation. Youll usually have a nice hole burned through in between two fire rings. I use a composite Felpro on my car with ARP studs and run boost up to 25psi daily and havent blown one, but I dont let my setup see more than two counts of knock here and there. I use the composite cause if something goes wrong the composite hg will generally fail before something expensive and more difficult to fix fails.
 
So how is compression great on the trouble cylinder filled with coolant?
 
Could it be a leak somewhere before the cylinder (in the intake)? That would explain coolant in cylinder while compression is good, although i can't think of any places where coolant is near air other than in the idle control mechanism. Even then there will be water in all cylinders.

Either way, pull the head off and check the head gasket and surfaces. Easiest way to pull a head on 4G63 is to remove it with intake manifold still attached.
 
Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I'll pull it as soon as I can. I pulled it on my last DSM but was a bit messy during the process. Maybe I can be a bit neater this time. :D

Could it be a leak somewhere before the cylinder (in the intake)? That would explain coolant in cylinder while compression is good, although i can't think of any places where coolant is near air other than in the idle control mechanism. Even then there will be water in all cylinders.

Either way, pull the head off and check the head gasket and surfaces. Easiest way to pull a head on 4G63 is to remove it with intake manifold still attached.
 
Hmmm....!

If you are talking about bypassing the coolant lines to the FIAV it would be worth a shot temporarily.

I have a pretty cool ghetto vacuum pump from harbor freight where I could suck the coolant out.

If there is a leak in the idle control system, cylinder 4 is closest to the tb, which might explain why there would be "standing" liquid in that cylinder maybe??:hmm:
 
The technical name is a Fire Ring. I know, creative. :)

But like 91-GS said, there will usually be damage to the fire ring and the material around it. The picture shown above is a Multi-Layer Steel headgasket which isn't as easily damaged. A Composite gasket (like the stock 4g63 gasket) will usually show much more damage from the leak, such as this:

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Looks more like a copper gasket that was paired with an o ringed block.
 
Well I bypassed the TB lines and started the car. 15 minutes later it began to misfire due to coolant coming back into #4. Only one way to go from here...DOWN.
 
check for distortions at the rear coolant passage, both the head and block.
 
Well I took it apart and I don't see any problem with the head gasket or any other area at a first glance.

The cylinder wasn't that full of coolant when I opened it either. I see that 2 valves are open on the trouble cylinder (number 4).

Not sure if that has anything to do with it?

Cylinder #4 is bright and shiny as compared to the others...maybe because of the coolant in that cylinder?

One of the bolts broke away rather easily for cylinder #4. Bolt closest to exhaust manifold and passenger side.

Thoughts?

Thanks

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Well for starters, you have replacement intake valves in all 4 cylinders, so this head suffered a broken timing belt at some time.

I can see where the head gasket blew on #4, between #3 & #4

Also the gasket was close to failing if it had not on #1 cylinder also, most of the fire ring is eroded away

I can not see how the head has been surfaced, too much old gasket and crud covering the surface finish.

The head needs cleaned up and inspected, and a good chance that it needs surfaced.
 
Thanks much!

I can't tell that the head gasket has failed by looking at the pics but I am a newbie. Where has it failed? Is it because the rings are not perfectly round? Sorry I just don't know what to look for....not second guessing you just trying to learn and it is frustrating when I just don't see it.

If I am checking the block for trueness, what is the maximum that I can get away with using a composite gasket when measuring with a feeler gauge?

I see your link below but wasn't sure what the absolute max was so that I could conclude the block is junk.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/452489-backyard-straight-edge.html

When checking for trueness, it looks like I must remove the dowel pins. Can I put them back in and reuse them? If so, do I just tap them in?

Thanks again!

Well for starters, you have replacement intake valves in all 4 cylinders, so this head suffered a broken timing belt at some time.

I can see where the head gasket blew on #4, between #3 & #4

Also the gasket was close to failing if it had not on #1 cylinder also, most of the fire ring is eroded away

I can not see how the head has been surfaced, too much old gasket and crud covering the surface finish.

The head needs cleaned up and inspected, and a good chance that it needs surfaced.
 
I pulled your pics up on your PB account, and zoomed in.

Yes where the fire ring distorted is where the gasket failed.

Like a head the flatter the better, so you want .003 or less warp in the block. If you find .003 of warp in the block, it should come out and be decked.

This link shows how to remove the head alignment dowels.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...r-how-clean-block-deck-pistons-installed.html

If you use this procedure, one thing I left out was plugging the oil feed hole.
 
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