91 GSX Project Rebuild: Experienced DSM'rs input appreciated!!

blkout91gsx · May 25, 2013

So just to give you all a little background on my project... My friend and I started this project together about 7-8 years ago and slowly started building a clean, street-rippin daily driver. When we started the build we knew our fair share about cars to get us started. Knowing what I know now about DSM's I surely wouldn't have gone with a 7-bolt block for this project

But somewhere along the line we acquired an extra 6-bolt block to save for "just in-case". Well unfortunately, just in-case has now arrived.. The 7-bolt was completely built about 5-6 years ago with Weisco pistons, Eagle rods, 9:1 compression, block was bored 1 mm over and I just had the stock head rebuilt last summer not knowing my block was already beginning to "walk". Granted the motor probably never made it over 1500 miles in the span of that 5-6 years. And I don't remember exactly which ACT clutch we put in but I believe it was a stage 3 with a 2900? So now I start over with my 6-bolt block and depending on how the 7-bolt block looks when I take it apart I plan to re-use my rods and pistons. This car is going to stay a daily driver and if it ever sees a track it won't be more than twice. I would like to keep it around 500awhp on E-85

So with that in mind, my main questions for the experienced DSM'rs out there are these
1. Would a re-man crank hold that kind of power? Or would I be better off spending the $600-800 on a decent crank?
2. I was told that a twin disc clutch setup would help reduce the likeliness of these motors crankwalking, but I read a few threads on here that make it sound like my setup might be okay on a 6-bolt?
3. Are there any options for strengthening the thrust bearings? Or in your experience what would be the best option to avoid another rebuild later down the line.
4. Since I'm rebuilding again I would like to rebuild my head with a few upgrades. Any good suggestions as far as cams, valves, springs, retainers?
5. My last question

In my pictures you can see that my intercooler piping hangs a little low to the ground. Because its 3" piping with an AWD frame that was the only route we had to go without cutting anything. Does anyone know of an intercooler setup that would allow me to do away with this "peeping pipe" or would I have better luck having another manifold built so the turbo sits on top and run the piping that way?

Thank you in advance for taking the time to help me work through this and thanks for any advice or experience you may have for me!

farley13 · May 25, 2013

1. depends on what exactly you mean by a re-man crank, did it just spin a bearing and your redoing the surface and are going to have it redone and get the appropriate sized bearings?
2. i have yet to hear or see any hard evidence one way or another so i cannot comment competently on the subject
3. someone else will hopefully give you the answer ...
4, kelfords and supertech valve train has so far done extremely well for me

JohnTSI · May 26, 2013

blkout91gsx said:
So with that in mind, my main questions for the experienced DSM'rs out there are these
1. Would a re-man crank hold that kind of power? Or would I be better off spending the $600-800 on a decent crank?
2. I was told that a twin disc clutch setup would help reduce the likeliness of these motors crankwalking, but I read a few threads on here that make it sound like my setup might be okay on a 6-bolt?
3. Are there any options for strengthening the thrust bearings? Or in your experience what would be the best option to avoid another rebuild later down the line.
4. Since I'm rebuilding again I would like to rebuild my head with a few upgrades. Any good suggestions as far as cams, valves, springs, retainers?
5. My last question In my pictures you can see that my intercooler piping hangs a little low to the ground. Because its 3" piping with an AWD frame that was the only route we had to go without cutting anything. Does anyone know of an intercooler setup that would allow me to do away with this "peeping pipe" or would I have better luck having another manifold built so the turbo sits on top and run the piping that way?

Thank you in advance for taking the time to help me work through this and thanks for any advice or experience you may have for me!

1. I would find a good OEM crank, have it checked and call it a day. We have only ever ran OEM cranks and make over 1000 to the tires without issues.
2. Crankwalk on a 6 bolt is very rare, twin discs help only because most have lighter pressure plates. Eliminate the clutch switch so you don't have to push it on startup will help keep wear down.
3. Never had to worry about it but also never built 7 bolts.
4. This highly depends on budget and goals. Kelford makes some pretty good stuff for the money IMO for most people. Springs, Kiggly makes the best hands down, valves up to you we have made 1000 to the tires on stock ones, all depends on your budget and how much head work you want to do.
5. Don't see a picture?

Vic321 · May 26, 2013

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he can use 7 bolt rods on a 6 bolt crank. You can do the reverse as long as you mill the rods a bit. Also his pistons are good to go as long as you bore the wrist pins because 6 bolt wrist pins are bigger. Unless your pistons use the 6 bolt wrist pins already.

blkout91gsx · May 26, 2013

JohnTSI said:
1. I would find a good OEM crank, have it checked and call it a day. We have only ever ran OEM cranks and make over 1000 to the tires without issues.
2. Crankwalk on a 6 bolt is very rare, twin discs help only because most have lighter pressure plates. Eliminate the clutch switch so you don't have to push it on startup will help keep wear down.
3. Never had to worry about it but also never built 7 bolts.
4. This highly depends on budget and goals. Kelford makes some pretty good stuff for the money IMO for most people. Springs, Kiggly makes the best hands down, valves up to you we have made 1000 to the tires on stock ones, all depends on your budget and how much head work you want to do.
5. Don't see a picture?

Awesome! Thanks for the input John, sorry I forgot to upload the pic after I posted. I'll throw it up in the next post. But Vic did bring up a good question. Will I be able to use my rods and/or pistons in my 6 bolt that I'm going to rebuild? And its been so long since I rebuilt the 7 bolt that I dont remember much about the specs on them. Only because of my lack of time with 2 jobs I'm going to take both blocks to the machine shop and have everything swapped over so I'm just tryin to get all my ducks in a row to save both of us time...and to get my car back on the road quicker

Heres a picture without the front bumper on it

And heres one with the bumper on it.

I'd hate to have to build a whole new manifold and flip the turbo to the top side but I also hate having that pipe hang so low to the ground. It has plenty of clearance for in town driving but thats the last thing I want to be worrying about while I'm driving and not to mention that our roads in this state are well lets just say they're definitely sub-par.

little-razcal · May 26, 2013

Vic321 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he can use 7 bolt rods on a 6 bolt crank. You can do the reverse as long as you mill the rods a bit. Also his pistons are good to go as long as you bore the wrist pins because 6 bolt wrist pins are bigger. Unless your pistons use the 6 bolt wrist pins already.

Your close but not all correct..

-You cant use a 7 bolt rod on a 6 bolt crank period. The 7 bolt rods have a smaller big end and would give to much clearance.

- The pistons you have are for a 7 bolt rod which use a 22mm wrist pin. A 6 bolt rod uses a 21mm wrist pin. You can machine the small end of a 6 bolt rod to accept a 22mm wrist pin and reuse your pistons if they are still in spec. This is very common..

Listen to JohnTsi more than anybody on here, but I will add that there are plenty of backdoor style intercooler kits availbale now for 1g's that eliminate all the crazy pipe routing. ETS, JMF, Buschur, Punishment, VRSF are just a few to look into. They all make back door/short route style 1g intercooler kits.

Ill also agree with above:

-Kiggly springs hands down. Do it once.
-Kelfords,GSC and FP(Comp) cams all work for people..Take your pick.
-Valves can be whatever your budget allows.
-Your clutch is more of a preference budget type choice, not a crankwalk thing. If your going to be daily driving this build, a twin may not be the best choice. They shift great at high RPM, but just expect to rebuild it often.

Good luck

Vic321 · May 26, 2013

I knew the wrist pins were different. I just had it the other way around :ohdamn:

blkout91gsx · May 26, 2013

little-razcal said:
Your close but not all correct..

-You cant use a 7 bolt rod on a 6 bolt crank period. The 7 bolt rods have a smaller big end and would give to much clearance.

- The pistons you have are for a 7 bolt rod which use a 22mm wrist pin. A 6 bolt rod uses a 21mm wrist pin. You can machine the small end of a 6 bolt rod to accept a 22mm wrist pin and reuse your pistons if they are still in spec. This is very common..

Okay thats what I was looking for! Thank you guys for the input!
So if I've got this right I can't use my 7 bolt rods no matter what? So I'm gonna need new rods... and if my pistons are still in spec I can still use them? But if I have to get new rods would it be best just to get new pistons as well?
Just want to make sure that the old pistons with machined wrist pins will hold up for awhile ### I'm not worried about price I would rather spend a little more than have to tear this whole thing apart again.
Thanks again for all the input!

little-razcal · May 27, 2013

blkout91gsx said:
Okay thats what I was looking for! Thank you guys for the input!
So if I've got this right I can't use my 7 bolt rods no matter what? So I'm gonna need new rods... and if my pistons are still in spec I can still use them? But if I have to get new rods would it be best just to get new pistons as well?
Just want to make sure that the old pistons with machined wrist pins will hold up for awhile ### I'm not worried about price I would rather spend a little more than have to tear this whole thing apart again.
Thanks again for all the input!

You have a few options.

a. You can get 6 bolt rods and machine them to fit your current 22mm pistons. You will need to buy new rings doing this of course.

b. You can buy a set of 6 bolt rods that already have a 22mm small end. There are vendors that do this..

or

c. You can sell your current combo and just buy all new parts..

Its completely up to you. If your not worried about $, then I'd just get all new 6 bolt parts and start fresh. Any off-the-shelf combo will hold your goal of 500hp...21mm/22mm whatever..You can also get upgraded wrist pins with most pistons manufacturers, though you don't really need them IMO..

ShaneShane2510 · May 30, 2013

blkout91gsx said:
So just to give you all a little background on my project... My friend and I started this project together about 7-8 years ago and slowly started building a clean, street-rippin daily driver. When we started the build we knew our fair share about cars to get us started. Knowing what I know now about DSM's I surely wouldn't have gone with a 7-bolt block for this project But somewhere along the line we acquired an extra 6-bolt block to save for "just in-case". Well unfortunately, just in-case has now arrived.. The 7-bolt was completely built about 5-6 years ago with Weisco pistons, Eagle rods, 9:1 compression, block was bored 1 mm over and I just had the stock head rebuilt last summer not knowing my block was already beginning to "walk". Granted the motor probably never made it over 1500 miles in the span of that 5-6 years. And I don't remember exactly which ACT clutch we put in but I believe it was a stage 3 with a 2900? So now I start over with my 6-bolt block and depending on how the 7-bolt block looks when I take it apart I plan to re-use my rods and pistons. This car is going to stay a daily driver and if it ever sees a track it won't be more than twice. I would like to keep it around 500awhp on E-85

So with that in mind, my main questions for the experienced DSM'rs out there are these
1. Would a re-man crank hold that kind of power? Or would I be better off spending the $600-800 on a decent crank?
2. I was told that a twin disc clutch setup would help reduce the likeliness of these motors crankwalking, but I read a few threads on here that make it sound like my setup might be okay on a 6-bolt?
3. Are there any options for strengthening the thrust bearings? Or in your experience what would be the best option to avoid another rebuild later down the line.
4. Since I'm rebuilding again I would like to rebuild my head with a few upgrades. Any good suggestions as far as cams, valves, springs, retainers?
5. My last question In my pictures you can see that my intercooler piping hangs a little low to the ground. Because its 3" piping with an AWD frame that was the only route we had to go without cutting anything. Does anyone know of an intercooler setup that would allow me to do away with this "peeping pipe" or would I have better luck having another manifold built so the turbo sits on top and run the piping that way?

Thank you in advance for taking the time to help me work through this and thanks for any advice or experience you may have for me!

I have a 90 talon with a built six bolt in it with a act stage 3 clutch. im running about 410hp at the wheels. to answer you question about the bottom end, i have a stock one in mine. i had it turned and balanced, and put new mains and all that good stuff in it. now a couple of my buddy's have 1ga dsms and they have ran around 400-450 on a stock bottom end all day long. So in my experience, unless you plan on making a high hp car i wouldn't worry so much with the bottom end. i have been daily driving my car (except for winter) for about a year now and have had zero problems with it on the street or the track.

Having a six bolt will reduce your chance of crank-walk a lot in my opinion., so i would just get a stage 2 or 3 clutch and you will be fine.

inter-cooler wise, i got mine from punishment racing, and i bought a 2$ cutoff wheel and cut some holes, but on the 1g awd there is a spot were you can cut, and use a Dremal to smooth it out and look clean. that's what i did with mine and it turned out sharp.

hope i was able to help at least a little bit.

blkout91gsx · May 31, 2013

Thanks for all the input guys, it's much appreciated. I've been doing a lot of digging on different forums and the internet in general on the issues I'm facing with this project. I know in the beginning of this thread I stated I had a 7 bolt ... but I'm not exactly sure which block I've got in this because after doing some research I saw theres a way to tell on the oil pan whether is a 6 bolt or 7 bolt. I thought the block we had built came out of a 2g talon, but the oil pan is suggesting a 6 bolt. The reason for this post is I was told by a local shop that my engine walked. He had me stick a pry bar between my crank pulley and frame rail and have someone press the clutch while I pried lightly on the pulley to see what kind of movement I have. Now after reading what I've read it may be a good idea to still have it checked???
The reason he suggested to check for crankwalk is because after the head was rebuilt and we got everything put back together we let the car run at idle for probably 20-30 min just to make sure there were no leaks and let the oil circulate for a little bit because the car hadn't been ran in just under 2 years. My problem came the next day when I was going to my appt to get it tuned. After letting it warm up for about 20 min I got in the car to load it on the trailer but when I pressed the clutch in it stalled out and died. And it did it every time I pressed the clutch in. I could let it sit there and idle until it ran out of fuel and no issues but as soon as the clutch pedal was pressed that was it. I also tried starting the car in gear but it was as if the pedal wasn't pressed because it wanted to start almost wanted to lurch forward but wouldnt crank over...kinda like I was feathering the clutch.... I was also having a hard time getting it into gear while the vehicle was off almost like something was off in the tranny which is possible because the same shop that told me I had crankwalk was the one that rebuilt it... great shop but I'm not sure how precise they were during the build of the trans... I know the trans doesn't have over 250 miles on it so its fairly new yet too....

Any help or opinions on this subject would be great!! I just want to cover all my bases before I decide to jump in to a whole new rebuild again and then come to find out it was something simple.
Thanks in advance for any and all help guys!!

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91 GSX Project Rebuild: Experienced DSM'rs input appreciated!!

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