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2G Wont shift into 1st gear (picture)

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Proven Member
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Mar 24, 2013
Charlottetown, PE_Canada
Ok hi everyone Im kinda new to this site and to my dsm, just recently bought a 97 talon tsi with 190,000kms for 1200$, cars in fairly good shape some rust underneath it that scares me a little.
Anyways onto the point of my thread, the guy I bought the car off said the car hasnt gone into 1st gear about a couple days before he put it away for the winter, The car wont go into first when its turned off, you cant hear it engage like it does in every other gear. Ive taken the center console apart and it seems the bushings for the shift cable aswell selector cable are in good shape, I tried disconnecting the shift cable from the shifter and pull the cable to get it into gear but I can only get it into 3rd(hence the reason for the selector cable) I heard alot of people using zipties to fix this but im not sure what your wanting me to ziptie to, from shift cable to selector cable? or shift cable to the knob(if bushings were gone)? Anyways heres a pic of the cables aswell as my new baby.
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I had this problem with my galant. You should check the gears on the tranny itself, this way your 100% sure its not the problem. If thats oke, disconnect the cables on both sides and check if the cables can move Freely. If they turn out ok, it must be the shifter.
 
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ok and how would I go upon checking the gears on the tranny itself? is there a gear selector ontop on the transmission if i got it up on stands and got underneath would I be able to cycle the tranny through the gears?
 
On top of your tranny you can see the selectors where your cables hook up. Unhook the cables and lay them aside. Now you can select a gear with your hands, it's just like shifting in your car. It sounds weird now but when you do it you will understand. This way you can find out if your tranny is ok.
 
Ok so today I got into the shop and got everything apart to get the the gear selector, and disconnected the shifter cable put it into 1st gear by hand and still grinding, didnt disconnect the selector cable, can that cause this problem sometimes too? Im guessing that im looking at some tranny work, I have all the available tools and shop space for weekends and after 5 during the week, how hard would it be to drop this tranny myself?
 
Your right lever viewed from engine front that goes up/down (which is your gear shift lever left/right) is called the select lever. It selects the shift gear pair - either 1-2, or 3-4, or 5-R. The other lever called the shift lever, selects which one of the pair is selected.

Before pulling the tranny take a look at the "select lever shoe" which is attached to the select lever and rides in the ring of the control shaft (so it can move it up/down) to see if it is missing or severely worn down: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/mai...t-fifth-gear-grinding-help.html#post152266167. If so, it is probably your problem (especially if, with both cables disconnected from tranny shift levers, you can put it in 1st by hand moving those levers - definately try this before pulling tranny). Here's a good pic of it: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=142964&d=1343796178.

Of course if you can manually shift the tranny levers (without cables connected) by hand into 2nd but not 1st, then you probably have an internal tranny problem.
 
ya ive disconnected both the selector cable and shift cable put it into first by hand with all the wheels off the ground and still have a grinding. id say its internals
 
anyone know of any transmission rebuild threads? When I get it dropped id kinda like to do the work myself on the tranny to save $$ aswell as the learning expierience, have never taken apart a tranny before. could a amateur mechanic be able to do this or would I probably just mess things up worst?
 
anyone know of any transmission rebuild threads? When I get it dropped id kinda like to do the work myself on the tranny to save $$ aswell as the learning expierience, have never taken apart a tranny before. could a amateur mechanic be able to do this or would I probably just mess things up worst?
It's a lot of work and scary (don't believe those who say it isn't) but this will help:

1) Removal (although this is for a fwd, it's similiar except for the transfer case): 2G FWD 4G63 - Transmission Removal - Columbus DSM Forums

2) I disagree with some of the above Removal proceedure: You don't have to remove the axels from the hubs at all (leave wheel nuts on). You also don't have to remove ANY ball joints! Just unbolt the 2 lower arms at the chassis end (READ THIS proceedure: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/awd-drivers-axle-help.462647/#post-153254703) and remove the damper fork bolt and the entire assembly will swing out far enough to pull the axles out of the tranny (pry axle out the first inch with a flat blade screwdriver between the inner CV housing and tranny on each side of that housing 180 apart). Move tranny axle end out of tranny and down where it won't bump into anything. Here the control arms, damper fork, and driveshaft are shown disconnected: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=142961&d=1343792826.

3) my tips: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...build-dsm-fwd-transmission.html#post151757065

4) Extremely complete rebuild article with pics on every step: Dre. This is the one you follow to do the actual rebuild or parts replacement (along with the factory manual for presets & end play proceedures and shims part numbers).

5) A peek at what you're getting into (this is fwd): http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151917&d=1360233681. This looks scary and don't kid yourself, it is, but the Dre article and factory manual cover it all. Read them before even starting to remove tranny. And if you have a regular job, give yourself a couple weeks minimum. It will take 5-7 days just to receive the correct shims (Mitsu calls them spacers) in the mail (dealers don't carry them of course) after you do the factory presets proceedure (where you measure crushed solder) to figure out which ones you need.

6) You will need a press if you disassemble the input and intermediate shafts gear stacks (like for syncros, bearings, sliders, hubs - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=99045&d=1250237960). I did mine with no previous tranny experience but I really took my time and followed the DRE article and factory manual exactly.
 
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alright thanks rallye, I was thinking how much of a bi*** it would be to get the balljoints and the axles disconnected at the hub would be but your method seems alot more practical, might have to bungee the axles up because the car will have to be mobile, because of where the car is my dad owns the shop area and needs the space for work.

As for the transmission rebuild itself, it does look scary, lots of parts to memorize where there going ect, plus Im sure I wont have a clue to whats going to be wrong with it by looking at it, it looks to be that where im looking to get to is the very end part of the disassembly too, 1st gear and the shifter.

Ill definetly bookmark the dre guide though and use it, I found something on youtube looks to be russian and speed up 400% through the whole video(pretty hard to follow that)

Thanks for the feedback and guidance, not many people would take time out of there day to help someone they dont know.
 
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alright thanks, gonna go try that synchro test out now and see what i come up with.

Ya i did the test rally, and it seems the synchros are alright in each gear, the gar idles down say 100 rpm. no grinding, any other tests you know of?
 
No but I took mine to a Kennedy Transmission to get their free opinion (so I had something to look for once I got it open) before I started removal. In fact after I got the gear stacks out I carried them to them for an opinion also. Be aware that most transmission shops now farm out MT as they only now do AT themselves (so it might be hard to find a MT rebuild expert locally - call first and ask).
 
ya ive disconnected both the selector cable and shift cable put it into first by hand with all the wheels off the ground and still have a grinding. id say its internals
I hope you had the cables disconnected at the tranny end and hand shifted the tranny levers when you did this. It should shift without engine even running or clutch depressed if tranny is ok. You won't want to tear the tranny apart, rebuild, and find the problem still there because it wasn't inside the tranny.
 
Ya im gonna take it apart again tommorow ( lower coolant hose,upper hose, air filter intake to get to the cables again, I have to try and get a pin out that siezed and broke off of where the shifter cable goes onto anyways, but im pretty certain that it wont make a difference but hell its worth another shot before I get into tearing that tranny out. 1st gear is down on the weight and towards the back of the car right?
 
I believe theres one in the car, although it might be in rough shape and have water damage, gonna get into the talon today and see if i cant get it into first.

Wasnt able to get at it today ffs, my damn jimmy sprung a gas leak, so gotta fix that first seeing its my everyday driver atm.
 
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hey rally. finally got to it tonight buddy, been busy fixing my jimmy and other personal events, Anyways got both the cables disconnected at the transmission and I got excited for a second, didnt hear a grinding noise but I have no movement, and the grinding isnt as loud im guessing because the cables arent connected? anyways seems to be im gonna be looking into dropping this transmission. should be fun.
 
one thing I recommend here if you actually are going to drop the tranny and tear into it is take tons if pictures as you go. sounds silly but pictures are a lifesaver when tackling big tasks like this.
 
Alright so, Followed the Dre guide, got the transmission apart. I believe its the intermediate shaft? ( one holding 1st and 2nd gear. The bottom bearing just fell out when i pulled it off. Aswell theres scoring where the gear shaft sits on the bellhousing. Theres quite a bit of up and down play in the bearing. Would this cause the car not to go into first? What am I gonna have to order to get this transmission fixed. Cant really do the crush test with a bum bearing can i? heres some pics.
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How is the clutch itself looking? the flywheel pressure plate the throw out bearing? there is a lot of miles on it so I'm sure some of that stuff could be a problem. Also look at the slave cylinder. I did a rebuild on manual tranny but wasn't awd with the gearing but I replaced slave cylinder the pressure plate the throw out bearing and had the flywheel machined out when I did that work in school. and while its a part might as well buy the clutch kit and make the tranny solid and not do the work twice. and make sure to bleed the system really well to get all air out of the lines and a nice solid pedal. I am sure you know most of this just wanted to give you some idea of what parts need or should be replaced while your there.
 
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