This might turn into a novel so please bear with me. I am officially in DSM hell.

As some of you know I have been building my GSX for several months now. I've had the usual hiccups and false starts along the way but nothing really atypical. Last Wednesday I went to do the initial start-up only to have the ECU cook itself, a quick examination by ECMLink showed that the flash module had been installed backwards resulting in the damage. Thomas at ECMLink fixed me up and I got the repaired ECU last night. Exited as hell, I thought to finally start up the car and start attacking my goals... Alas, it was not to be.

I pulled the MPI fuse and cranked the motor a bit t build oil pressure, everything cranked freely, pressure came up and I was satisfied enough to fire it up. I set all the parameters in Link, did some final checks and twisted the key... The motor cranked slowly and my lights were dimmed so I figured the battery was low after having sat for 7 months. Checked the battery and sure enough it was at 11.9 volts, no big. I threw some jumper cables on and went back to try again... Crank, crank, cranks then vroom, it started, ran for 5 seconds, clanged loudly and quit. Tried the key, no dice, motor won't crank, oh shit.

At this point 800,000 things were going through my head but I stepped back and approached it calmly and methodically. I put a breaker bar on the crank and tried to turn the motor by hand... Nope, not moving. The crank will turn approximately 10* in either direction but stops hard with a metallic clunk after that. My first thought of course was that the car jumped time and I had the valves clashed against the pistons preventing rotation. It was dark by then, so I buttoned it up and made ready to attack it in the morning.

This morning I went out and started going down the checklist... Pulled the plugs, motor doesn't spin, ok. Pulled the starter, motor doesn't spin, ok, the easy shit is out of the way. Pulled the VC, all the rockers are connected and I can see the cams and pistons moving together, the little bit that the motor would turn anyway, ok, now it starts to get fun. I pulled the drive belts and all the accessories spin freely so no seized alternator, water pump or P/S pump. Pulled the timing cover and to my surprise, everything is as it should be, the belt is tensioned properly, the components are rotating together and in the correct positions, no teeth are sheared from the belt, nothing appears wrong, except the motor won't turn. I proceeded to pull the timing belt and check the components individually. Intake cam spins fine, no contact, no binding, same for the exhaust cam, oil pump spins fine, no binding, no rough spots, etc... On to the crank, fock me, it won't spin, same amount of rotation as before, roughly 10* in either direction with a nasty sounding metallic clunk at either end of the turn. Son of a motherfockin bi***.

I know what the next step is... Gotta pull the motor back out and start tearing it down. In the mean time, is there anything you guys can think of that I am overlooking? I'm assuming something in the bottom end got focked somehow but can't for the life of me figure out what the fock happened. As an aside, I had concerns about the transmission before. Is there any way the transmission (auto) can lock up and prevent engine rotation? One other bit of info, I did notice that I had my AFPR plumbed incorrectly, I used both of the side ports and blocked the bottom one off. Could unregulated fuel pressure during cranking have filled my oil pan with E85 thus diluting the oil to the point that it stopped lubricating?

So, that's where I'm at. Any help, comments, ideas would be greatly appreciated, if you have any questions or require any additional info please feel free to ask, I'll tell you anything you want to know. Thanks in advance for any and all help you guys can provide. Sorry for the novel but...

Does the metal clunk sound come from the motor or the transmission side? Might want to grab a friend to help you out. Drain the oil and see if any metal chunks come out of it. Or just pull the oil pan off and inspect from there. I don't have experience with the auto trans. so I will not comment on that part.

Yeah, I'll drain the oil and check it out. On the ground it's as hard to pull the pan as it is the entire motor.

As far as the clunk, it seems to come from the motor but it also sounds like it's in open air, not dull like it was enclosed. My inspection plate is off for clearance on the Kiggly flexplate and I noticed that it looks like on the flexplate bolts has backed out a couple of turns. I'm wondering if an upper bolt that I can't see backed out further and is interfering with something.

if the engine seized it wouldnt turn at all.. maybe pull the plugs and check if any of the pistons are at TDC or close to, if all the pistons are half way down you cant be hitting valves.. also you could try pulling the oil pan first to see if theres something F'ed in the rotating assembly, like a screwdriver or socket you never know, sounds like something id do..

ricktb said:

if the engine seized it wouldnt turn at all.. maybe pull the plugs and check if any of the pistons are at TDC or close to, if all the pistons are half way down you cant be hitting valves.. also you could try pulling the oil pan first to see if theres something F'ed in the rotating assembly, like a screwdriver or socket you never know, sounds like something id do..

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Plugs have been pulled. Timing belt is off, cams spin freely. It's the crank that will only move about 10* in either direction. Thanks.

Just drained the oil and took a good look... nothing. I poured the oil into a glass jar and looks for anything in suspension, nada, no chunks, no metallic particles, it's a perfect honey yellow, no smell of gas, nothing.

I would lean more towards a flex plate bolt backing out and binding. Sounds as if the engine ran just long enough to loosen something up and lodge it to immobility

Cdc1221 said:

I would lean more towards a flex plate bolt backing out and binding. Sounds as if the engine ran just long enough to loosen something up and lodge it to immobility

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That's what I'm thinking and hopefully everything else is salvageable. (seems that way by the way you are describing the condition of T belt components)

Sorry for the bad luck, seems strange flex plate bolts would back out after 5 seconds of running! Unless you left them loose from the get go. Hope it's something simple man!!

Well when you put a lot of time into a build sometimes you leave off because you get excited or frustrated with something then you forget to tighten some stuff down. I just finished my build and forgot one of the oil gallery bolts behind a cam shaft gear after I swapped my heads. Thought I blew all kinds of gaskets or installed one wrong. Just saying it happens, it sucks that you will have to pull the tranny but hopefully that's all it is. Sound's like something simple just a pain to take apart and put back together.

Could be a number of things.

Are you sure you didnt install the crank trigger plate backwards resulting in piston to valve contact? Did you spin the motor after timing belt install like you are supposed to? If you didnt feel contact then, you should be OK (so to speak).

If you assembled the motor you should had spun the crank after main cap install, after piston/rods install, then after timing belt install checking all area's along the way. If you did this and nothing was binding or hitting along the way, I'd lean towards the drivetrain issue like suggested. If you had the motor assembled by someone else and had them do the timing belt, you could have issue.

These arent aluminum rods are they?

little-razcal said:

Could be a number of things.

Are you sure you didnt install the crank trigger plate backwards resulting in piston to valve contact? Did you spin the motor after timing belt install like you are supposed to? If you didnt feel contact then, you should be OK (so to speak).

If you assembled the motor you should had spun the crank after main cap install, after piston/rods install, then after timing belt install checking all area's along the way. If you did this and nothing was binding or hitting along the way, I'd lean towards the drivetrain issue like suggested. If you had the motor assembled by someone else and had them do the timing belt, you could have issue.

These arent aluminum rods are they?

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1G 6 bolt so no crank trigger plate. Also cams spin free with the timing belt off so no contact there. The motor was spun over by hand during every stage of assembly and never had any binding issues. It also spun freely when I cranked it with the key to prime the oil pump. There was never an issue until the motor actually started and ran... for 5 seconds. Nope, not aluminum rods, Manley H-beam.

I'm leaning more toward a flexplate issue, the blots were tightened to 100 ft/lbs with red Loctite but if one backed out others could have as well. I'm trying to figure out how to address that possibility without pulling the motor right now.

Thanks for the replies and ideas, I'll keep checking piece by piece. Any other ideas/suggestions are more than welcome.

Might wanna pull the trans next then. A ton easier than pulling the engine, and if you can already see a problem in that area you need to address it anyway.

StarFawkes said:

Might wanna pull the trans next then. A ton easier than pulling the engine, and if you can already see a problem in that area you need to address it anyway.

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I tried that on the ground once before and it was a focking nightmare. Any tips on getting the trans out on the ground?

Rockers on doesnt mean everything is fine. Any chance you put the plate on timing plate on backwards?

5150DSM said:

I tried that on the ground once before and it was a focking nightmare. Any tips on getting the trans out on the ground?

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A 4"x4", and a ratcheting strap. Think of it like a well and bucket.

5150DSM said:

I tried that on the ground once before and it was a focking nightmare. Any tips on getting the trans out on the ground?

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I have removed mine on the ground and on a lift. Took the same amount of time. Get a pair of jackstands, an extra set of hands, and a couple hours of your time. The more stuff you take out of the passenger side the easier it will be.

Drop a long screwdriver down each plug hole and ensure all pistons are moving when you turn the crank back and forth.

pauleyman said:

Rockers on doesnt mean everything is fine. Any chance you put the plate on timing plate on backwards?

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Very small chance, I was extremely meticulous when assembling the motor, I will double check though.

There is no contact between valves and piston, verified, for sure. The cams spin freely with no contact, it's the crank that seems to be locked up.

PieEyedPiper said:

A 4"x4", and a ratcheting strap. Think of it like a well and bucket.

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Ok. But how would I get it to clear the converter which will have to stay with the motor being that I can't rotate anything to unbolt the flexplate?

Back to square one: After the belt install, you had no problems with the six times rotating thing we do on the belt (with no issues) to see if all marks come back together .... ?

Wonder if you got a connecting rod cap worked loose on you jamming up a piston or similar...

Good luck with your find. - DSM

Maybe wrist pin broke and a rod got lodged. Just .02

Should be fine to drop it down. You may need to take the roll stops out to let the trans drop down some though

5150DSM said:

1G 6 bolt so no crank trigger plate. Also cams spin free with the timing belt off so no contact there. The motor was spun over by hand during every stage of assembly and never had any binding issues. It also spun freely when I cranked it with the key to prime the oil pump. There was never an issue until the motor actually started and ran... for 5 seconds. Nope, not aluminum rods, Manley H-beam.

I'm leaning more toward a flexplate issue, the blots were tightened to 100 ft/lbs with red Loctite but if one backed out others could have as well. I'm trying to figure out how to address that possibility without pulling the motor right now.

Thanks for the replies and ideas, I'll keep checking piece by piece. Any other ideas/suggestions are more than welcome.

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I meant crank timing plate (trigger plate)...whatever. Of you put it on backwards you will bend exhaust valves. Spinning the cams by themselves with timing belt off tells you nothing other than the cam caps aren't binding.

DSM1G90 said:

Back to square one: After the belt install, you had no problems with the six times rotating thing we do on the belt (with no issues) to see if all marks come back together .... ?

Wonder if you got a connecting rod cap worked loose on you jamming up a piston or similar...

Good luck with your find. - DSM

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This sounds likely. First thing i thought after the top post was a rod cap. I dropped my 2g auto trans on the ground in a few hours. I pulled off the strut, halfshaft, t-case and center drive line and unbolted the mounts. Not that diffucult. Good luck!!!

If you pull the Trans without the motor the converter MUST come out with the trans!!! It is damn near impossible to get that thing out of there with the converter still on the motor. Save yourself some issues and just pull it all. If that TQ gets bound up in the pump your in for a ride. Just some advice i have had this happen to me.