1fastlaser said:

E85 isnt a gas at all, its a FUEL. Certain areas have a lot of E85 fuel pumps. You cant call e85 PUMP GAS because it ISNT GAS!

Kiggly is the fastest fwd 4g63 on GAS...he is running race GAS.

Dogboxracings evo went its fastest pass on methonal.

Methonal has a octane rating at 110 octane.

E85 fuel is 102-106 ish

The united states has more 87-92 octane pumps then E85 FUEL so 87-93/94 octane is PUMP GAS. When you inject a higher octane into a motor its no longer PUMP GAS. I do a lot of grudge racing, and IT IS HOW IT IS. If you cant drive your car to any place without needing a JUG of something "special to add to any tank then its RACE FUEL!

My automatic made 604 on straight 92 octane, and went 10.2@134 full weight. NO octane in anything higher then 92 octane.

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We get 93oct E10 as Premium here

I run E85 with Water Injection though.

Boostdriven said:

I see the change of attitude, I'm guessing you got a friendly rule reminder as well no offence taken on my end, just got a little irritated with your first comment. Yes 10.22 is impressive, what kind of car was it?

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No friendly reminder or anything its an opinion and i hardly even change my attitude. The post was referred to the whole discussion of people fighting over what was is pump and was is not, why not refer to it as 100% 93oct, 91oct 91 + Meth ect? that's what i though was ignorant and funny if you take things to personal that's not my problem, but you shouldn't, i don't remember quoting you. I didn't even know you where The OP.
Anyways it was a 1993 Porsche 993 with custom spec Garret turbos.

You should see what you can do on pump gas, make both parties happy .

That and I can always use pump gas tuning pointers!

kidtsi said:

Anyways it was a 1993 Porsche 993 with custom spec Garret turbos.

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9 Years old! 10.22 secs,6 speed ,Porsche 993 tt, and you were driving? Any pics or vids?

ceedawg said:

9 Years old! 10.22 secs,6 speed ,Porsche 993 tt, and you were driving? Any pics or vids?

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1998 quality photo paper photos yeah probably, just stay on topic that would be for another thread another time, i don't like to brag at all about anything, i keep it to myself, family and close friends, its just the reason of my username...

Thursday I mixed up some of that meth with distilled water (75/25) and at about midnight I took the car out for some tuning. It was nice and cool outside about 55 degrees. I had to do very minimum amount of correction to the VE table, car ran really good at 33 psi.

Friday about noon I went to see what it will do on the dyno. Dyno pictures are in order from 1st pull to 4th pull as well as screen shots of the logs. With out touching the boost controller the car ran 30-31 psi. My guess its the lack of load on the dyno and the fact that it was like 85-90 degrees outside. Car ran a little rich too 10.9-11.2 I'm sure ECU compensated with the fuel but water/meth stayed unchanged. Car made 560 HP and 395 torque. Not as good as I would expect it to but it had a really nice power band and the power never fell off all the way to 8400 rpms where I let off. I made few adjustments to the VE table and crank the boost controller 2 turns. Did another pull, car ran 36 psi and made only 626 HP and 434 torque. Air/fuel ratios were a little better but dove down to 10.9 after 8000 rpms and that's where you can see HP drop on the second picture.

I thought maybe the fact that its hot outside is the reason for lower numbers, so I though let's do a 4th gear pull and see what the difference will be in HP and torque. I turned the boost controller down 1 turn just in case cause the car has a tendency to run higher boost in 4th. Did the pull and boost hit 39 psi and stayed there until I let off at 7800 rpms because it was knocking a bit. Car made only 627 HP and 482 torque, air/fuel ratios stayed steady at 11.3 so I thought well shit something has to be at fault here for such low numbers

I let the car cool of for few minutes and thought let's do one more 3rd gear pull and see what happens. I turned the boost controller up 1 more turn making it 2 turns like the second pull where it ran 36 psi. Did the pull and this time something was definitely wrong, it spooled really slow and reached peak boost of 39 psi at 7700 rpms and dropped back down to 37 psi by 8400 rpms. Car made 671 HP at 8250 rpms and 438 torque at 8000 rpms, I was like this is weird Unfortunately all this time I didn't even bother to look at the driver pressure.

So after I got the car off the dyno I started to look through my logs and noticed that my 3 bar EMAP sensor was pegged out at 30.9 psi before the car made full boost and stayed there all the way till I let off, this was the same on the 2rd, 3rd and 4th pull. The first pull everything was normal, in the first log picture you can see how the drive pressure just drops as the spool valve gradually opens and boost increases. I thought well maybe my quick spool valve got stuck and wouldn't open. When I got the car home I pulled the actuator arm off and the valve arm just pulled out of the manifold because the valve shaft had broke. I was like son of a bi*** My first thought was damn I hope nothing broke off and went through the exhaust wheel

Saturday as I was pulling the turbo off I noticed that the boost line that runs to my cut-out (60mm wastegate) was off and that's when realized what happened From the nipple on my compressor cover I run a boost line to a T that goes to my MBC for the spool valve actuator, from that T I run a line to another T which then feeds my cut-out and the other MBC for the wastegate. Having a major leak in the boost controlling system caused the spool valve to stay closed by disabling my MBCs to the spool valve actuator and the wastegate. Fortunately for me I didn't replace my 25 psi spring yet so the wastegate opened just with drive pressure. If you look at the log pictures 2 and 3 you can see drive pressure is still climbing before the EMAP sensor was pegs out at 30.9 psi and the boost is still climbing until the drive pressure pushed the gate open which is about 36-37 psi of boost. So now not only I don't have my cut-out I'm also forcing all the exhaust through half of the housing which caused crazy drive pressure and a lot of heat. When I did the 3rd pull in 4th gear the spool valve was still closed. On the 4th pull in 3rd gear I think that's when the shaft on the spool valve broke and caused the flapper to be part open wedged sideways not letting all of the exhaust in to the secondary chamber but creating enough leak from the primary chamber which made the car spool really slow. In the first 3 log pictures you can when the valve is closed how the drive pressure is higher then boost as boost comes up but in 4th picture 4th pull its actually lower. I can only imagine the hostile conditions that poor spool valve had to go through I don't think that shaft would have broke if the boost line didn't come off, it has works through many pulls flawlessly. I think the added drive pressure and heat were a little more then that 6.3mm rod could handle, and shaving almost half of it down to make a flat spot for the flapper to sit against better didn't help either. I have a 8mm rod that I'm going to use this time. I was thinking of building a true divided top mount manifold just not sure if I want to do it, that would take some serious time and I'm getting lazy

The good new is that there was no damage to the turbo, I can see where there are few pin size dents on the blade tips of the inducer but nothing to worry about.

One hell of a experiment if I may say so myself

1fastlaser said:

My automatic made 604 on straight 92 octane, and went 10.2@134 full weight. NO octane in anything higher then 92 octane.

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Those are good numbers, what turbo did you use and how much boost were you able to run on straight 92?

I would try a twin scroll t4 manifold if you are running a t4 twin scroll turbine housing. I think you can get more out of the turbo this way.

Boostdriven said:

Those are good numbers, what turbo did you use and how much boost were you able to run on straight 92?

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Maybe a 2.3L on a day with ambient temps around -10*F, and throw in a ice packed water to air ic?? , im just throwin it out there. I would like to know as well.
What were the conditions like to get 604 from straight pump? And the displacement? How much head work? I would have to assume everything was done very well to achieve that. Awesome numbers bro.

Boost, glad you didnt bust anything and go t the prob solved. I bet your heart sank when you did that first pull and look at the numbers! Its all good though.

killercolt said:

I would try a twin scroll t4 manifold if you are running a t4 twin scroll turbine housing. I think you can get more out of the turbo this way.

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Edited out. Corrected by colt. Thx

The title of this thread says 19cm hx40 housing. It is a divided t4 housing. You are confusing this one with the other t3 hx52.

Boostdriven said:

Those are good numbers, what turbo did you use and how much boost were you able to run on straight 92?

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His mod list said he has Aem and gt4294. That is a big turbo that usually make 800+hp. With Aem, monitoring knock is useless. You basically pump the boost and timing in to get what you want and pray it does not blow up. However with a big turbo like the gt4294, you maybe able to move a lot of air effiicently to limit the amount of knock. With the right supporting mods, I can believe 600hp is very possible.

Boostdriven said:

Those are good numbers, what turbo did you use and how much boost were you able to run on straight 92?

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Gt4294 journel bearing, Yes it was on straight 92 octane wawa gas. I dont have meth or anything on the car. I read the plugs. Knock in aem is monitored as much as I read the plugs after a pull. They will tell you EVERYTHING. I have a new motor going in (was a 2.4 now going to a 2.0) Good ol EBAY 24/12/3 front mount thats 9 years old. Intake temps are a little high after a pull, even though the nitrous for stall when racing cools it down without getting that reading I dont know how much. Tune was tapering too rich 6500-8k 10.9-10.2. Leaned it up top and went back to staging to piss off the officials a little more, but closed staging lanes.

Turbo is big for the power I am making, but for 300 dollars Ill take it . Ill be turning the wick up on race gas to see what it does, but its nice to be able to drive it anywhere, and race at any time.

On the dyno [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc4aekG5EbM[/ame]

10.2 pass [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM7DqvDa5Ic&list=UU1fO77nv63odQ9XqTmKJVFA&index=4[/ame]

The OPs car will definitely make a shit ton more power. Take that bi*** to the track!

boost97gst said:

Boost, glad you didnt bust anything and got the prob solved. I bet your heart sank when you did that first pull and look at the numbers! Its all good though.

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The first pull numbers didn't bother me as much because the engine was making power all the way to 8400 rpms where I let off and it was only 30 psi of boost. That's why I built the engine the way I did to make power well in to higher rpms. I should be able to rev it higher with minimum HP drop by 9000 rpms let's say, just didn't feel like abusing it that much, its not like I'm racing on the dyno

The second pull at 36 psi where it made 626 HP that's what made me wonder a bit considering my last trip to the dyno car made 663 at 37 psi. Of course later I found out that the spool valve was never opening along with my cut-out. I should have the spool valve rebuilt with a bigger shaft here in the next few days. My lesson was that I should have used a zip-tie on every boost line connection and not just assume that if its a bi*** to take off by hand it don't mean it won't come off with boost

killercolt said:

I would try a twin scroll t4 manifold if you are running a t4 twin scroll turbine housing. I think you can get more out of the turbo this way.

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Yeah the divided manifold would be nice but I don't think it will spool the turbo as fast as my setup with a spool valve. I think the stock 16cm would probably be a better option for the divided manifold. Even thought it looks bigger on the outside the bottom of the funnel right before exhaust hits the wheel is smaller then the 19cm housing I'm using now. It would take more exhaust flow to generate the same pressure in the 19cm housing vs the 16cm, this is just my speculation, I didn't test the 16cm housing to really see the difference.

Part of the reason why I chose the 19cm housing to use with the spool valve was because the bottom of the funnel is bigger on it vs 16cm. From my experience I've learned that even though you can generate the drive pressure with a smaller housing (like with the use of a spool valve) but if its to small you're not getting the flow to the wheel. I've seen this when I used garrett T4 .84 housing on the HX40 with my spool valve. When the valve was closed all the exhaust was forced through one side, at that point my drive pressure was higher then boost and even though it was building boost the car felt dead. I think it was because exhaust wasn't getting out of the engine like it should have. So when I port that primary chamber in the housing it dropped my drive pressure by few psi, the spool stayed about the same but the car felt more alive as boost was coming up.

1fastlaser said:

Gt4294 journel bearing, Yes it was on straight 92 octane wawa gas. I dont have meth or anything on the car. I read the plugs. Knock in aem is monitored as much as I read the plugs after a pull. They will tell you EVERYTHING. I have a new motor going in (was a 2.4 now going to a 2.0) Good ol EBAY 24/12/3 front mount thats 9 years old. Intake temps are a little high after a pull, even though the nitrous for stall when racing cools it down without getting that reading I dont know how much. Tune was tapering too rich 6500-8k 10.9-10.2. Leaned it up top and went back to staging to piss off the officials a little more, but closed staging lanes.

The OPs car will definitely make a shit ton more power. Take that bi*** to the track!

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Yeah that gt4294 is a big boy, I don't think I would dare to run it on my 2.0L daily driver. I don't think there is anything I can do to make it spool like the HX52 The 2.4L is a different story, I have no doubt that it can make great numbers even on 92 octane, its that damn stroke
I think there is more power to be made out of my setup I just need to start playing with some real fuel and not that pump gas crap but then in my opinion its not daily driving HP but more like track HP.
You mentioned that you're switching to a 2.0L why is that?

Car a auto, so it will benefit in the long run with the 2.0.

I'm sure the car will make the same power regardless 2.0/2.4 not worried about that. And for actual racing I use nitrous to get everything moving so not worried about loosing maybe 3-500rpms of spool.

1fastlaser said:

Car a auto, so it will benefit in the long run with the 2.0.

I'm sure the car will make the same power regardless 2.0/2.4 not worried about that. And for actual racing I use nitrous to get everything moving so not worried about loosing maybe 3-500rpms of spool.

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I think a 2.0L would make a little less power and torque with the same turbo and boost on 93 octane, but like you said it will be a better option in the long run. You can rev it higher safer which should put you in a better power band between shifts.