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21st ANNUAL DSM/EVO SHOOTOUT

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You are right, it's one small class this year. What about five years from now? And really, calling people whining little b**ches that need to grow the f**k up? It personally sounds like you have some growing up to do. If you think it would be "badass" to watch GTRs race then go to a GTR event and watch them but not at the DSM Shootout. Nobody asked you if you thought it would be cool seeing it either but thanks for your opinion.

x2

And that's the kind of attitude I would expect from a group of GTR owners. (For the love of god, don't think I'm grouping EVERYONE with a GTR into the "asshole" category) but a majority of people with expensive cars tend to talk down to those of us building little 4-cylinders that might clear $2k on their KBB value.

I'm still going this year, but if this turns into the beginning of the end of the DSM/EVO Shootout with more non-Mitsu categories, I'm going to save myself the 18 hour drive.
 
I wouldn't miss it for anything. If Dave want's to take another step much like the Evo step back when to help this continue for our discontinued vehicles, then so be it. Who else has stuck around this long for us DSM'ers? Who else has made it possible to have events like this? It's the 21st event for Christ's sake, I'm grateful for everything the event is. You don't like, stay home. The rest of us will go and find reasons to keep going year after year.

Thank you Dave, logistically I get it. Besides, it's your shop and your race so who are we to tell you what to do? Lol. The GTR class will be more of an exhibition class for your latest endeavors.
 
Isn't there a Buschur Evo vs Subaru Shootout already ??? He should incorporate the GTRs at the Evo vs Subaru event, but NOT at the DSM/Evo Shootout which main identity is a Mitsubishi event. I can get Buschur is now wrenching GTRs but like Jax said most GTR owners don't respect 4cyl Mitsubishi and will certainly cause some animosity between us and the GTRs especially now allowing them at the event. But in a business standpoint for Buschur, bringing on the GTRs into the event would mean more revenue, more sponsorship, more crowd, and more exposure for him. I favor the DSM/Evo Shootout should remain a strictly Mitsubishi event like Honda day, which is the biggest Honda event nationwide as well as the DSM/Evo shootout is the biggest Mitsubishi nationwide event. I still haven't attended a DSM/Evo Shootout to this day, but hopefully will have my race car ready and set to be at the 2014 Shootout, but every year I see pics, and unfortunately eventhough the event has grown there are a lot od DSM hardcore race cars that have quit the DSM game for example Brent Rau which is a celebrity that bring mass crowds. Not to criticize Dave, but a few other tracks and event pay for international racers to race at their event, eventhough the promoter has to pay the race car transportation usually known international race cars attract big crowds just to see a race car that not often is at US soil, in the DSM Shootout case having Jett Racing from Australia or HD2 Racing from New Zealand would definitely attract more crowd which would mean more revenue.. That is a practice well used by others tracks and events that has always worked... Another thing, the RWD 4G63 race cars are growing by the day and having a class just for RWD Mitsubishi powered cars could definitely be looked into... I love the DSM/Evo Shootout and last year was known as been one of the best Shootout and even Dave said the Shootout is growing by the year... At the end of the day, I'm going to say I'm a Mitsubishi ride or die gearhead, and atleast we have a Mitsubishi ONLY event, and it should stay a Mitsubishi ONLY event... Eventho the DSM/Evo Shootout might be growing by the year and DSMs race car are been taken further than before, the DSM community in general is dying in a sense, so revolutionizing the Shootout is the wisest thing Buschur is doing, just don't know if that's the way to revolutionize it...
 
I have added a GTR class to the Shootout! With us moving into building and tuning some GTR's, the fact I've always tried to keep the event growing I think it's a smart move.

Are you gonna do all qualifying for all the classes on Saturday then now? Seems like there was barely enough time for the event to finish with the classes you already had? I think it being a two day race has always been the better idea starting qualifying early on Saturday. I know we did one round on Saturday last year and you spoke about doing more this year but I may have missed reading it somewhere.
 
For those of you who see the big picture and support the change, thank you. For the rest, well I will try to explain more but most times people are STUCK on their opinion and no matter of reasoning will help, that's probably the situation I'm in. So here are random thoughts from all the stuff posted. You can figure out who it's directed at.

1. I am not going to pay to have someone come and run because they are "famous". Ridiculous idea. I can justify it too, this event hasn't stopped growing yet and there have been plenty of guys who decided they were not coming here to race anymore, threatening that if they didn't show the event would suck and people wouldn't come. For example, Turbo Trix, Magnus, AMS and guys who don't race their cars anymore who just didn't come, like Extreme Motorsports, Shepherd and even Rau. They have NO effect on the event, sure it's nice to see them but the draw of the event is the atmosphere and comradely.

2. The GTR's have been running at this even the last few years in Test and Tune. Last year there were about 6 of them. There were also all kinds of odd ball stuff in that same class that ran. Nobody complained there was a Test and Tune class with misc cars in there. Fact is we need racers at the event. There is a huge spectator count now but not a growth in racers. Without the test and tune class being implemented by myself a few years ago, the racer count would have dropped and continued to drop. Eventually you end up with no racers, no friends coming to watch them, people count dropping and the event failing. I know this as I have studied it for 15 years watching NOPI and NHRA not accept new cars, call for overly ridiculous safety rules and the Buick events die. You guys want to keep it all Mitsubishi........I can assure you as sexy as it sounds it won't last forever like that, it can't.

3. The GTR's are being allowed in, ONE class this year and it's their own GTR class. They can NOT compete in any class against an EVO or DSM. They can NOT compete in Quick 16. They were there last year, this year they just get to run against each other.

4. I do not have a Mitsubishi vs Subaru race, it hasn't been that in years. It's a simple Sport Compact Race. I considered having the GTR Class, as I did have it a few years back, at that event. There are multiple problems there too. First is the event is in 3 weeks, no time to get that arranged and expect people to show up. Second is the most important part, that is I LOVE THE SHOOTOUT!!!!! I do not want to see the Shootout EVER-EVER not be a huge success. So, let's say I put the GTR's into the Sport Compact race and it's a big hit, then I add another class maybe for Supra VS GTR and then it just continues to grow and as I make changes it turns into a monster like the Shootout, that's great right? Well now consider that nothing changes with the DSM/EVO Shootout and it will absolutely start to die off because there are no new Mitsubishi's and the actual Mitsubishi racer attendance hasn't grown in years, it's leveled out. So now the Shootout gets smaller and smaller and eventually just dies........what then? Tell you guys, "Hey, there's a bigger race, I'll make a class for the EVO's and DSM's to compete in the Sport Compact Race, come there." Is that the solution you guys want? Hell I sure don't. I'd rather do something to ensure that the Shootout is the best race and if adding another bad ass AWD platform to the event keeps is going that is what I want to do.

Unlike many of you, I think about this long and hard and 24 hours a day. Then I make a change. THIS is the best change I can see to insure the success and longevity of the event. I mean if there were no more Mitsubishi's what would you buy? A FWD Honda? No, you'd find another bad ass AWD and my friends that would just about have to be a GTR or maybe a Subaru.

BTW, if the DSE class needs changed, I have asked for input on what needs changed on the Shootout page on Facebook. I am also listening here. I am ALWAYS up for adapting the Shootout to what works, if you don't think I've busted my ass to improve the race, well then you haven't paid attention. I've added 100 racers to the mix from adding an Autocross and Max Effort Classes. So get the RACERS who attend the event to say they want the exhaust rule in DSE dropped, not spectators and not people who never even come but run their mouths and if enough of the racers in the class want the rule dropped, then I'll drop it.

As for qualifying, we will all get one qualifier for the heads up classes Saturday night, just like last year. The reason the event ran late was the HUGE AMOUNT OF BROKEN TRASH that oiled down the track that I HAD TO PAY TO CLEAN UP.

You want the event to run faster? Put catch trays and diapers on your cars. Don't run your half assed leaking trash on the track and prepare your cars better. THAT is what slowed down the races, not the amount of cars (which hasn't grown). It was the broken cars that slowed us up.
 
As for qualifying, we will all get one qualifier for the heads up classes Saturday night, just like last year. The reason the event ran late was the HUGE AMOUNT OF BROKEN TRASH that oiled down the track that I HAD TO PAY TO CLEAN UP.

You want the event to run faster? Put catch trays and diapers on your cars. Don't run your half assed leaking trash on the track and prepare your cars better. THAT is what slowed down the races, not the amount of cars (which hasn't grown). It was the broken cars that slowed us up.

And I can appreciate that but we cannot help what other racers pull onto the track either. And to run almost any track and be legal in the northeast you have to have a pan or diaper now. I bet if someone made a bolt on pan for our cars they could make a few bucks ;).
 
I have a blast every year. I always bring a car and only sometimes race. I don't give a crap if gtr's are there. I'll enjoy watching the older dsm's kill them. The more the merrier!. I also enjoy reading all the comments by the people who have never had a car or have been to the shootout complain about how it's going to be just like a local track. I want to see your track with zero SBC's running. O well, I cannot wait for my August vacation.
 
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BTW, if the DSE class needs changed, I have asked for input on what needs changed on the Shootout page on Facebook. I am also listening here. I am ALWAYS up for adapting the Shootout to what works, if you don't think I've busted my ass to improve the race, well then you haven't paid attention. I've added 100 racers to the mix from adding an Autocross and Max Effort Classes. So get the RACERS who attend the event to say they want the exhaust rule in DSE dropped, not spectators and not people who never even come but run their mouths and if enough of the racers in the class want the rule dropped, then I'll drop it.

I've raced in DSE the past 3 years. I'm OK with the exhaust rule. I say BRING IT. It will make the competition a little more fun. It will also bring in all the guys who should be in DSE, but were forced to race Quick 16. Maybe a turbo size limit needs to compliment the possible change of the exhaust rule. <67 or 68mm perhaps? With the no nitrous rule in place, that will eliminate any 8 second auto cars, and any "street" DSM under 67mm will make for a very competitive final round.
 
I would definitely buy a bolt on pan if someone made them!! Also, would be sweet to allow side exit exhaust in dse! I'm not fast enough for q16, and want more of a challenge then b1, but I won't go to full exhaust.

Count me in DSE, if you lift the exhaust rule!
 
Bring in the GTR's, its not that big of a deal. Hopefully Nelson comes back with his 3000gt and maybe some other old schoolers would bring theirs to play.

As for DSE, dammit, I just put on a 4" full exhaust and my special passenger seat to race last year in the class after being kicked out of it 2 years ago for no passenger seat and my exhaust didn't exit past the rear wheels. Keep full exhaust.
 
Bring in the GTR's, its not that big of a deal. Hopefully Nelson comes back with his 3000gt and maybe some other old schoolers would bring theirs to play.

As for DSE, dammit, I just put on a 4" full exhaust and my special passenger seat to race last year in the class after being kicked out of it 2 years ago for no passenger seat and my exhaust didn't exit past the rear wheels. Keep full exhaust.

You can still run your full exhaust, just let side exit guys play too! :D unless you're worried? :p
 
this is going to be my first year going and honestly I dont really care if there are gtr's there or not. I agree its a bad ass AWD platform. I cant wait for my vacation in August to get here so i can attend this awesome looking event. I understand some people not caring for the change but if this is what it takes for the event to stay alive then it has to be done, and I dont mind a change. I am looking forward to many more years of this event.
 
I think adding a Gtr class will take nothing away from the DSM/Evo experience at the shoot out. One request I have is to not allow some 18 second cars(like that avenger last year)or 20 second trucks to race. It's kind of making a mockery of what a race event should be.
 
Leave the DSE class as it is, otherwise it will just end up as another "pop-can" class. The class is not dying and most have invested good money and time to comply with the rules.
 
I can see David's point on this because Mitsubishi really does not have anything new to offer, so eventually there is going to be nothing left. Which is a shame, but what are you going to do? In a perfect world, the event would stay all-mitsu, but its not a perfect world.

I'm ok with it, as long as this doesn't turn into a GT-R focused event. Might get some crap for this, but the GT-R's really do not do much for me... yea, they are fast and can be driven daily. But any car that costs 100k+ is expected to do those things. What really impresses me is what your average person can do! Anyone with money can buy a supercar, and typically those people just buy it for the status and do not even know how to change a tire. Granted the everyday joe's racecar takes some drivability away in most cases, but without millions of dollars in R&D, engineers, and test equipment, it is more difficult to make something with very high horsepower AND daily drivable.
 
I think adding a Gtr class will take nothing away from the DSM/Evo experience at the shoot out. One request I have is to not allow some 18 second cars(like that avenger last year)or 20 second trucks to race. It's kind of making a mockery of what a race event should be.

Those race in the brackets. That's a different ballgame, as it is about reaction time and consistency. Also, it doesn't matter to me who races or how fast/slow a car is... this is about people having fun!
 
DSE is a street eliminator class. If there is any rule in the book that is more important than any other rule is the exhaust rule. If I'm on the street and a police officer does not see an exhaust he will pull me over. The muffler rule is dumb because in Michigan at least the turbo counts as a resonator and thankfully I have two(which makes my exhaust extremely quiet). Full interior(from back seat forward) and 2 seats is cool. That is easy to do and still leaves it look like a street car inside. DOT tire and no nitrous I like. Everything else doesn't matter either way.

It would be interesting to see where this street class is going considering it is getting faster and faster every year having people following the no nitrous, DOT tire, full exhaust rules.

I'm cool with the compressor wheel limit. I think it would be cool if they turned the "stock appearing" turbo class into a compressor wheel limit rule so we don't have to run only a DSM or EVO compressor cover. Limit that class to 56mm or smaller or something like that.(HX35/BW256/etc).
 
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Leave the DSE class as it is, otherwise it will just end up as another "pop-can" class. The class is not dying and most have invested good money and time to comply with the rules.

Full exhaust is money and time? It's just a full exhaust. I guess leave the rules alone, we have people shaking at the knees. :applause:
 
I'm excited about the whole thing, it's just too bad I can't make it this year. I'd have to hitch a ride with someone because my car is under construction still and probably won't be ready until the winter months.

Anyone up for letting me hitch a ride???:thumb:
 
Full exhaust is money and time? It's just a full exhaust. I guess leave the rules alone, we have people shaking at the knees. :applause:

Hahahaha.. You have been around this long enough. You put a full exhaust on and comply to the rules and see where the chips land.
 
I'm excited about the whole thing, it's just too bad I can't make it this year. I'd have to hitch a ride with someone because my car is under construction still and probably won't be ready until the winter months.

Anyone up for letting me hitch a ride???:thumb:


If I lived in Michigan then I would gladly let you hitch a ride with me and the wife. Only problem is I live in Oklahoma and that would be way out of my way. LOL
 
I'm excited about the whole thing, it's just too bad I can't make it this year. I'd have to hitch a ride with someone because my car is under construction still and probably won't be ready until the winter months.

Anyone up for letting me hitch a ride???:thumb:

Remind me as the date gets closer... will be coming form Chicago, so a ride may be possible. Depends on if we trailer the car there or not, since we use a regular cab truck for towing.
 
You can still run your full exhaust, just let side exit guys play too! :D unless you're worried? :p

I am not worried about my 3300#+ Panzer tank whooping your 2000# can. You still trap nearly what I do, and I had a smoked cylinder head doing it for a couple years. The only way you will be faster is if I keep my car at home! ROFL!


Can't wait to see you up there dude! Always a great time hanging out!
 
This is a good move.

The GT-R market is strong and getting stronger and there is a lot of shop rivalry which leads to a lot of good racing. Which who doesn't want to see a slew of 8 and 9 second GT-R's going at it?

David is absolutely right more and more of these cars die every year and it won't be long that they're as rare as a properly running Starquest.

-Michael
 
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