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7 bolt top end build questions

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mechanix565

10+ Year Contributor
165
1
Apr 19, 2009
Pawtucket, Rhode_Island
sooo I lifted my head today and am now pushing water and have a rough idle. soo I made a few purchases heres what I bough so far

-OEM intake gasket
-OEM Exhaust manifold gasket
-Felpro Valve Cover gaskets
-Super Viton valve seals
-STM BSE kit
-felpro oil pump gasket
-Felpro Composite Head gasket
-ARP head Studs
-3g Lifters
-FIAV Blockoff
-complete gates timing set with idlers
-Oem hydraulic tensioner
-Gates water pump

anything else I should grab

should I use copper spray on the headgasket???
 
Should I use copper spray on the headgasket???
Yes.

It makes sense to "rebuild" the head with fresh parts since you're already pulling it correct? I've been on a budget before trying to do a head rebuild and this is what I ended up with...

- engnbldr valves, bronze valve guides, & revised lash adjusters (lifters)
- Evo 8 springs and retainers (they are beehives and can be found for $70 or less)
- Supertech valve seals
- ARP headstuds torqued to 85ft lbs
- OEM headgasket
- Oil port mod http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html
- Oil port mod #2 (if you put a 2g head on a 1g block) http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/341885-oil-port-mod-2-4g63t.html?highlight=oil+port+mod & http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341625-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod-2-a.html?highlight=oil+port+mod
- Resurfaced & lap the valves​
And just out of curiosity, why the BSEK for a head rebuild? :hmm:

:dsm:
 
reason for the bsek is because I have to take the timing belt off anyways, and my oil pan is seeping so im dropping that too so mind as well just pull the pump off and remove the shafts. I plan to have the head sent to the machine shop and have .005 cut off it just to make sure its perfectly clean I might do a little smoothing work on the exhaust side was looking at the BC valve springs for 80 bucks but will my stock retainers and locks work with them?
 
oh and by the way I did the same swap as you, fwd auto to awd 5 speed and I cant make my gas gause work right for the life of me it reads like half way to a quarter and I ran out at a quarter tank the other week LOL an tips I wired it exactly like the vfaq
 
Gofer covered pretty much everything I would say.

Keep in mind if you change the guides, the valve seats will need to be cut to index the guide center line to the seat.

Also do you know how the shop will surface the head?
 
Hopefully a CBN deck!!!! You most likely will not need guides but if you are replacing the VSS then I would make sure that all your seats and valves are sealing, so you minus well have them cut.. If you do plan on purchasing a cylinder head feel free to shoot me a PM, we have awesome pricing on our heads. Also what ever other parts you need we can ship with the cylinder head for free :). Here is a quick link to some of our most popular builds, but feel free to call or email with any questions. DSM Race Heads
 
Wow I really wish I had the money for a stage 1 head just really need to get it back on the road I'm gonna have them pull vacuum on the head and if the valves are all sealing I'm gonna leave it alone just have it cleaned and checked for straightness. For some Evo 8 springs and followers today and viton valve seals so ill put them in. And do the oil port mod and install 3G lifters
 
so ive decided that while im in this thing im gonna do the bottom end to i got a line on some parts for short money heres the additions to the list


11k mile evo 8 rods and pistons
arp rod bolts
arp main studs
new oil jets
evo 8 Hastings piston rings

i understand that with these modifications i will also have to

resurface/hone/hot tank the block
line bore the mains and rods and rebalance the rotating assembly but the evo guys make alot of power on stock bottom end and with the addition of the ARP rods and mains i see this setup being safe to 450 what do you guys think also bogussvo wanna give me a quote on doing the head and bottom end work total package deal ill buy all the parts im saying just the machine work
 
So your plan is to install used pistons into a well-worn block which has cylinders which are not round and are also worn. Where is the advantage?

1.)You're going to use new rings but the cylinder walls are glazed which means the new rings will never seat in.
2.)You could use a ball hone to break the glaze but you will still have out-of-round and likely oversized cylinders.
3.)Plus the pistons will have wear and possibly collapsed skirts. Combine that with the previous comment and the result is a lot of PTW clearance so it's not only going to smoke but also make a bunch of racket and wear prematurely.

As for the cylinder head and the parts that you've mentioned it looks like a decent plan for a stock rebuild but I don't see anything that will increase HP or support 450hp reliably or efficiently. Also, if you're replacing guides you'll need to go to oversized valves which will require cutting the seats. It's not as easy as buying a pile of parts and putting it together.
 
To sort of expand on what JAM said.

Have the block checked before you buy the pistons. A decent hone job will add .001-.002 to the PTW.

You do not have any idea what condition the pistons are in, they may look good to the nekkid eye, but they could have collapsed by .002-.005 and the only way to find that out is lay a mic on them.

Also, by the time you buy the rods, and then the ARP rod bolts and have the rods resized for the new bolts, you will be close in the same cash outlay as an entry set of H beam rods.

I have built many of engines on used parts, they are called "Grenade" builds, because you never know how long they will last before they blow. Most were built for bomber class dirt track racing, or other limited use builds. Yes they will run, yes they can make power, but do not think you will get 100k miles out of them for DD use.
 
Some pretty looking Ross Hard Anodized pistons.

Look pretty don't they???

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Some light minor scuffing, the crown looks just fine.

Wrist pin moves just like it should.


They are junk, worth nothing more than scrap weight

The skirts have collapsed, just by looking, you can not see the damage.

I call Ross tech support, to get more info on this run of pistons.

They are supposed to be 85.5mm,

85.5mm is 3.366

The piston to wall clearance is machined into the piston appox .0035 is common
So I should have seen around 3.3625 or there abouts.

After talking to Ross, the base piston is machined to 3.360 then the anodized coating adds appox .002

So I should see 3.362-3.363 with the mic.

These 4 pistons mic'ed out 3.356-3.358 that means the skirts have collapsed .004-.007

Also these pistons were made about 10 years ago, according to the Tech at Ross and rings are no longer available.

Now I have to call the customer, and let him know the used pistons he bought are no good and can not be used.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jam... I thought it was fitting to post here.

I thought my mic was off at first, So I pulled a set of new .020 Wisecos, and I saw the numbers I was looking for.
 
well guys got my head off today and ive got some serious wear in 2 of the cylinders so heres the new plan since it will cost the same and I scored a set of scat rods brand new for 130 bucks.. I can get a good 97 Galant 4g64 bottom end, so since I can still use all the parts I got already i think its a good idea here are my concerns

-will my drivers side axle carrier bolt to the back of the block?
-what do i do about the knock sensor

other than that from what im reading it drops right in.. just need a good set of pistons im thinking manleys or weiscos... what do you think if i know the block will work im gonna pull the trigger on it tommoro and get it delivered

i know it was stupid to think i could use used parts im not sure what i was thinking i was going to have the pistons checked before installation but since my block needs a lot of work they would be useless anyway
 
I wouldn't recommend using copper spray anywhere in your car unless the Factory Service Manual (you have one of those right?) says to use it. The OEM didn't use it anywhere in the cars and it's not "sealing" any extra power anywhere that wouldn't be sealed otherwise by proper part installation and selection.
 
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