This is old news.

gob4sho89 said:

Only update I have as of now.... Blocked from their FB page right after posting a link to this thread.

Also, Austin from turbo lab and Ian have both deleted me as friends on FB.

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Your link is still up on the Turbo lab FB page for the moment.




Also anyone that doesn't know pj91gsx = Austin @ TurboLab. Just so you know who to avoid.

I could see them wanting some money in this situation, but the blatant disrespect that they showed you was uncalled for and very unprofessional. I hope they realize that a customer with a bad experience tells ten times as many people on average than someone with a good experience.

As far as the guys at FP, all I can say is WOW. Its nice to know that there are companies willing to make things work for you when you are in the worst of situations.

My post is not still there. Someone else re-posted it.

ZenkaiRacerDsM said:

I'm tired of seeing vendors bashed when turbo's fail and who the heck knows why it failed, then when they don't get a free replacement it's bash city.

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You wouldn't be upset if the company didn't honor their "warranty"

^^Better be careful, they might delete you!

ebailey95 said:

You wouldn't be upset if the company didn't honor their "warranty"

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A warranty on a turbo is very broad, unless you can pinpoint that the cause of failure was them then hell no I wouldn't be mad at them for not giving me another turbo.

Think about it, people buy turbos all the time and then install them on some rigged ass cars with any number of things that could cause a premature turbo failure, then they call up who they bought the turbo from and blame them. If they gave free turbos/rebuilds to everyone and their mom who's turbo blew for whatever the hell reason then they would not have a business.

The same type's of "warranties" go hand in hand with pretty much any performance part.

Edit: A response on the original post on FB from them said they offered a rebuild at the cost of parts. What happened with that?

I was driving with Chad on the trip to TX, and was present for everything he mentioned. I was also banned then subsequently allowed back on the TL page, and my comments were deleted as well. I don't have a personal problem with them, I had referred two people to them for rebuilds before this whole scenario happened.

I was on the laptop making changes to the SD table after the last 22psi pull that the turbo ever made, and he tells me "I have no boost"... I jokingly said "of course, you're out of the throttle!", he then went WOT to show me, and sure enough, boost gauge went to zero...

The turbo had in-out and touch-down levels of side-to-side play that I felt first hand. This was with only a few hundred miles on that CHRA!

I can say there was no turbine balance mark as shown in the pictures that Turbo Lab sent him, as well as the fact that I have pictures showing touch-down of the compressor wheel:





Interesting pic regarding "component vs. assembly balanced"... Here's a picture of a BRAND NEW Holset HX40 CHRA, and a pic of the Holset sticker to prove it was truly an OEM part:





My last comment for now, is that if the feed line was truly "bad", why would the new FP turbo work flawlessly at 30+psi during the entire rest of the trip? The scientific method says to change only one thing, and keep everything else controlled, and you'll get good data. Well, the only change was the turbocharger, and I know FP JB turbos require good oiling supply to live, so you guys can draw your own conclusions.

One more thing, I'm glad to have two Forced Performance Turbos, this whole situation just reinforces what I already knew, that FP is the way to go!

Robert/Michael/Amber/Tex and the Wookie are all good people, and their customer service is awesome!

ZenkaiRacerDsM said:

A warranty on a turbo is very broad, unless you can pinpoint that the cause of failure was them then hell no I wouldn't be mad at them for not giving me another turbo.

Think about it, people buy turbos all the time and then install them on some rigged ass cars with any number of things that could cause a premature turbo failure, then they call up who they bought the turbo from and blame them. If they gave free turbos/rebuilds to everyone and their mom who's turbo blew for whatever the hell reason then they would not have a business.

The same type's of "warranties" go hand in hand with pretty much any performance part.

Edit: A response on the original post on FB from them said they offered a rebuild at the cost of parts. What happened with that?

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Yes but the warranty isn't the huge issue here. The main issue I see is that the picture they sent of the turbo is not the same turbo Chad had... And the un-professionalism of talking crap behind a customers back by calling him names. Or trying to make him look like a "beeitch."

I've been dealing with Holset, for past few years. These turbos are extremely picky about oil supply or drain! Friend of mine went true 2 OEM hx35 and and one H1C, till he listened to me at the end about his turbo failures. He learn the hard way! Oil feed, drain even engine oil are very very important, when it comes to holset ! You not the first one with brand new, or new rebuild Holset that fails! Holset turbos are not for everyone . You asking why ## FP turbo still runs good. FP turbos oil feed is completely different than Holset, trust bearings journal bearings, everything is different . Many people blame the turbo for the failure or whoever rebuild it. 90% of the times problems comes from , wrong size oil restrictor or too small drain line .

Also just to finish , i use quite few Chinese HX40 carthages, Chinese rebuild kits, compressor wheels and turbine wheels also. When you put two different Chinese parts like compressor wheel and turbine wheel, with out balancing you expect that S&%^ to blow up right away right !? well it never did , still runs for over year on my buddy's DSM who boost 30PSi on Chinese hx40 .....

-12 oil drain line....
-4an oil feed line from OFH no restrictor
- did not smoke at all till failure resulting in no boost.
-I MEASURED PRESSURE AT THE TURBO AT IDLE AND AT ALL CONDITIONS DURING A DRIVE CYCLE TO MAKE SURE IT WAS GETTING PROPER OIL.
I understand many turbo failures are user error. They keep saying its the filter I run in line... If that was the problem, why did it not show up at all when I was testing after it? The filter was clean because I took it off to inspect it when replacing it after failure.

gob4sho89 said:

-12 oil drain line....
-4an oil feed line from OFH no restrictor
- did not smoke at all till failure resulting in no boost.
-I MEASURED PRESSURE AT THE TURBO AT IDLE AND AT ALL CONDITIONS DURING A DRIVE CYCLE TO MAKE SURE IT WAS GETTING PROPER OIL.
I understand many turbo failures are user error. They keep saying its the filter I run in line... If that was the problem, why did it not show up at all when I was testing after it? The filter was clean because I took it off to inspect it when replacing it after failure.

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No restrictor on holset = very bad idea.

Not when I measured the pressure the turbocharger was getting... Plus, they said it starved of oil, which I know a restriction would have prevented!

Pursuit said:

No restrictor on holset = very bad idea.

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Did you miss the part where he had a pressure gauge on it and logged pressure at idle and all driving conditions?

gob4sho89 said:

Not when I measured the pressure the turbocharger was getting... Plus, they said it starved of oil, which I know a restriction would have prevented!

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to much oil pressure can cause the problem you have.

Anyway , i use same method on my cars , or my customer cars , i always get
Turbo Oil Feed Adapter Fitting M12x1 5 w 1 5mm Hole Volvo TD04L TD04H TD04HL | eBay

This and drill out the hole little more depend on the oil pressure, if car have removed balance shafts , and stuff.

no matter what pressure you gettin , you can't live the holset with out restrictor. I know from personal experience.

Guess reading the entire original post is over rated? I measured it at not only idle but under all driving conditions. Too much oil can not cause a turbo to starve of oil, or cause the shaft to become blue. The oil that made it past the seal was from my few hundred mile drive to FP from where the turbo failed.

gob4sho89 said:

Guess reading the entire original post is over rated? I measured it at not only idle but under all driving conditions.

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I read everything very carefully. Just sharing ! not trying to say is your fault ! Not taking anyone side !

I had case that cold start 70psi , warm idle 10\15 psi cruse around 50psi WOT 70 75 max oil pressure, no restrictor , New Holset H1E fail same as yours up less than month ! That was on stock 7 bolt motor with balance shafts.

HATS OFF TO fp. Michael@fp, YOU'RE A STAND UP GUY AND THAT GOES BEYOND ANY CUSTOMER SERVICE. EXPECT MY BUSINESS IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

I think you all are missing the point. Turbolab posted failure picures of A DIFFERENT TURBO. That in itself shows how far they'll go to lie to their customers.

I've been asked why spend a couple grand on a turbo from FP, well read this post and the answer will become clear.

If I were in this situation, the first thing I would ask to see is detailed photos of the oil drain setup and PCV / Catch Can setup exactly as it sits on the car with the turbo still installed just to cover all of the bases and rule out the oil drain. Like I said before- the turbo was getting plenty of oil as noted by the lack of bearing transfer on the shaft. If it wasn't getting enough oil there would be notable amounts of bearing transfer on both sides of the shaft including the heat scoring, like this:



^ You'll see that the shaft also bent on the turbo in question as a result of the compressor wheel contacting the housing at great speed, causing a sudden stall which twisted the shaft like a pretzel stick.


Even the *slightest* kink in an oil return line can restrict drain flow to half what is required for the turbo to adequately drain. I try to tell all of my customers doing a custom install to make sure any bend in the line is done with a fitting and the flexible portion of the hose is straight as it can be, like this example by Kyle Henny:




^ That is a perfectly-plumbed 12AN drain.


Even with a good oil return you can still have drainage issues if your crankcase pressure is too excessive because the crankcase will be trying to vent through the turbo's drain line. I had a customer not long ago claim his freshly-rebuilt 16G was smoking heavily immediately after installation which is damn-near impossible. Posted photos of the drain, it looked great. Posted photos of the PCV system, and what I got looked identical to this:



^ Both lines to the can, no vent....so the engine was using the oil drain tube as a crankcase vent, not allowing the turbo to drain at all.


I have no trouble honoring any warranty as long as the customer works with me to help figure out what went wrong so it doesn't happen again. There are millions of Holset turbos in operation every day on everything from pickups to over-the-road trucks to marine engines to natural gas compressors in pump stations across the world...they're a very durable breed, but you gotta have both ends of your oiling within spec or it's going to cause immediate problems.

As stated previously, I can see how an extended period of time with a turbine seal leaking may cause the turbo to fail by letting exhaust enter the cartridge until it scorches the turbine-side journal bearing, wears it out, and eventually bends the shaft when one of the wheels contact the housings...but it doesn't happen as rapidly as your example. Hell a good friend of mine in MD ran his H1E all last summer on a daily-driven car with thrust plate wear to the point where the in/out play eroded the turbine sealing ring away completely and the car didn't smoke one bit because the oil drain was doing it's job and the crankcase ventilation system was built properly. Still made 28psi perfectly- if you were riding in the car you never would've known anything was wrong.

To me it just seems like the details of the situation just don't add up- the information the O.P.'s giving just doesn't agree with what the rebuilder claims to have caused the turbo to fail.

In my experiences turbo lab has been very helpful i do think they were wr to handle it with disrespect i cant imagine any company you call and tell them your turbo failed and you want them to send you a replacement without sending the badone in for inspection doing it. All in all im glad to hear you foumd a company you are happy with and sorry for the situation you were put in and wow fp really stepped up and you were very lucky for that.

Interesting...

I dont know why anyone deals with those guy. They change their name every couple of months. Theres a reason for that.

^^They have? As far as I know they have always operated under the same name.

They have always been Turbo Lab far as ive known Austin