gabytech said:

Mistake kid... I hope for your sake you outsource stuff you really dont have a clue about... I can tell you that cage was built (welded) wrong... I feel sorry for you, you going to end up with a cheap looking car and probably a race car that wont launch straight and be all over the track. Seen it to many times to know this is starting ad one of those.. Its still early in the build to think about it kid, outsource what you dont have the skills and knowledge... Is there a way for you to listen or you really believe in your own mind you can do the custom fab ???

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Just curious what exactly I fabricate wrong?

cant wait for the part out. $375.00 for the cage ? C/M or Steel

DSM's 4 life said:

Just curious what exactly I fabricate wrong?

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First off Im going to start with saying, even if it was a roll cage made for a 1G, the bars come a few inches longer for you to cut to exact length when building it.. Specific car cages are NOT a direct bolt-in... The angle the frame support bars are welded to the main hoop/crossmember seems off, seems the notch wasn't done right probably due to you not cutting the tube to the correct length for the provided notch, it suppose to be as tight fit as possible where the tubes connect one to another. By the pic I can see theirs a gap between them that wont make the cage as strong as its design to be, no matter if you weld the gap, in case of an accident that brace bar can break real easy by the way you notched them together and cause the driver to get harm instead of safe... By the pic it looks like you didn't spot weld the cage first and then loose it to weld it like a puzzle like its done by chassis fabricators. There's a way to build the cage for the welder to have better position welding the tubes together and end up with a better welded cage... You didn't use steel plates in the rear strut bar, which will lead to chassis/tower flex in a RWD drag car, the plates in the shock towers are used for stiffness... Welding a cage isn't just as easy as taking a welder and weld some tubes together, they are certain functions to the tubes that need to work in certain ways. The cage is design to work certain ways at several key points that when not build right wont serve the correct purpose of behaving its certain way when crashing. Although not in your case and your cage, bet you didn't know certain parts of a cage are design to break out of the car and not be a harm to the driver in case of an accident...

I'm an engine builder and eventhough I'm not a chassis builder, I've been racing for years and have been lots of times at REAL chassis shops specialized in drag cars and have watch them fabricate cages, I know the ins and outs of building a cage...

nitrouskris said:

cant wait for the part out. $375.00 for the cage ? M/C or Steel

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Chrysler Products, 1990-1994 Eagle Talon 10 Point Roll Cage Race Car Dragster Chassis, Roll bars, Cages, Suspensions, Parts

DSM's 4 life said:

Chrysler Products, 1990-1994 Eagle Talon 10 Point Roll Cage Race Car Dragster Chassis, Roll bars, Cages, Suspensions, Parts

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its a steel cage...waste of money. you should have gone to a local fab shop

nitrouskris said:

its a steel cage...waste of money. you should have gone to a local fab shop

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Not only it was a waste of money, it's a waste off weight been his swapping a heavy big block and converting to RWD which will add a substantial amount of weight. He should want to keep the weight down due to the RWD conversion, not add, going with the steel cage was a mistake.. He's going to end up with a 3,600lbs car, hope he really brings the horsepower to compensate for it or he's going to end up with a cow for a race car... , he isn't doing his homework and listening to others... I can get he wants to build a unique car, but he should be smart about it...

All bashing here aside, I cannot comprehend (and i have some crazy ideas) why you would put a stock all iron boat anchor hanging off the nose that's only going to be making 16g power levels. Sure it'll make the power with less rpm and more torque but seems pointless unless you just wish to do burnouts.

I also can't comprehend it, but we all can't think alike. But if he's going forward with it, atleast he should do his homework, learn to listen to those who do, and build it the right way from the get go...

Most of the RWD DSMs have been 3/4 and full tube chassis race cars. Theres only one other RWD DSM other than mine that I know off that was built stock chassis, which makes my DSM only the 2nd stock chassis RWD DSM..NOT any other member has done this so they don't really know what it involves to correctly encourage or advice him. There's a lot of chassis/body fabrication involved. That's why most ppl who have stock chassis RWD 4G63s, swap the engine in a RWD factory chassis like MAP's 4G63 RX7, TJ's 4G63 S2OOO, Adnan's 4G63 Monza, etc etc and avoid the chassis/body custom fabrication nightmares and high expenses... There's no way to get him to listen, its useless... There's NO way a 5k budget is enough for this type of build...

I do agree with you, I research til i know every inch of what im working on and how i am going to do it before ever touching anything. But some do learn best for themselves. I have no problem promising you that with that shotty workmanship and blatant lack of experience you are bound to go well over budget if you plan to be nhra legal.

Seriously though, im not a greater welder by any means, but my welds looked like that when i was in my first week of welding class at age 16. That cage will not get certified or get passed by tech nearly any where. Honestly i am not bashing (with some practice your welding could very well far surpass mine) but you cannot be cutting corners like that to make budget, in reality it will only put you further over doing the work twice. If you wanted to weld it yourself, go get a few scraps from a local machine shop and work on weld quality first. Some things take dedication and practice, not just diving in head first, imo.

DSM's 4 life said:

Just curious what exactly I fabricate wrong?

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I aint trying to discourage you or bring you down, I would hate for you to waste unnecessary money or have to over do the work twice. Try and listen to what some of us are saying and advising you, plus spend a few hours online searching magazine articles written by the pros, so you can have a better knowledge and idea about your build... Even with my experience and skills already been involved hands on in the sport for years, before I started the build I spent probably around 6 months brainstorming and online searching and talking with RWD DSM guys so I could have a better idea what I was about to embark in...

Do you even know what rear end you going to go with, what's going to be the wheel/tire size, what rear suspension you going to use, are you going to mini wheel tub it to fit wider wheels/tires ????? Those are things you should know down to the wire before you welded that cage. Those who have done a live axle rear end in their DSMs and leave the rear chassis stock are AWD, remember you going RWD all your grip will be at the rear, so you'll need wider wheels/tires than stock to have the right launch or you'll stay at the line spinning the OEM small tires or whatever size fits the OEM wheeltubs without the suspension been to high and take away 60ft times.. If you think you going to get away with the OEM AWD rear end you'll run into rear end breakage real quick. You need to beef up the rear end to hold the power and torque produce by that big block...

Just so you have an idea. Im going with small 15x10 in. wheels and 275 drag radials in the rear and I had to modified and narrowed the rear frame rails and mini tub it to be able to fit them inside the tubs and be able to have the suspension low enough for the car to have the desired launch....





Just so you can compare what I'm talking about regarding the cage. Here's a 2G S&W Race Cars weld-in kit.

Note: Notice the shock tower strut bar has steel plates.



Note: Notice the angle/notch in main hoop support bars. They already welded but you can see the difference between yours and how these where fitted real tight without the gap between bars.

I'm all for swaps, even this excersise in creativity. My biggest problem with the cage, besides fitment, craftsmanship etc.
Launching, and straight line performance aside.. This first and foremost is a safety item, it is meant to save your life first, and serve as a backbone second. Even you you wanted to do the work yourself it isn't exactly the place to "practicing".

I'm an ex V8 hotrodder..
Buy yourself a cheap V8 racecar.
Remove body and install DSM body..
Done!!!!!

daniel dee said:

I'm an ex V8 hotrodder..
Buy yourself a cheap V8 racecar.
Remove body and install DSM body..
Done!!!!!

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Actually, best idea yet

daniel dee said:

I'm an ex V8 hotrodder..
Buy yourself a cheap V8 racecar.
Remove body and install DSM body..
Done!!!!!

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Better said than done... The DSM is a unibody NOT a body-on-frame car like most muscle cars, so unless he was building a 3/4 or a full tube chassis that aint possible...

gabytech said:

Better said than done... The DSM is a unibody NOT a body-on-frame car like most muscle cars, so unless he was building a 3/4 or a full tube chassis that aint possible...

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Oh it's possible, but not practical or pretty . Rednecks have been doing that stuff for years. Mustangs, pintos, Miata's, even a smart car body mounted to full frame truck chassis. All unibody's....he could drop that she'll on to a 4x4 pick up frame and off road that sucker, then it wouldn't matter if it tracked straight from the home engineering. Mud that sucker!

4g63tc said:

Oh it's possible, but not practical or pretty . Rednecks have been doing that stuff for years. Mustangs, pintos, Miata's, even a smart car body mounted to full frame truck chassis. All unibody's....he could drop that she'll on to a 4x4 pick up frame and off road that sucker, then it wouldn't matter if it tracked straight from the home engineering. Mud that sucker!

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When you put it "Buy a V8 race car" Im assuming its a caged car and probably either a ladder bar or 4-link suspension... In other words doing something like that its pretty much pointless and a waste of money... Some rednecks need to stay away from cars and stay with their 4x4...

gabytech said:

Some rednecks need to stay away from cars and stay with their 4x4...

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QFT

Isn't a 7.5L damn near 800 pounds?

Its been done before I just cant get in contact with anyone that has.

Do you really think those two are 5k builds ??? You can't get in contact with them, yet someone like me who knows is trying to advice you with the best intentions even when I know I'm a bit hard on my words I still keep coming back with real intentions with advice and not criticize you and you won't listen. What makes you think you'll listen to them? When I bet they both are going to tell you the same story I'm trying to get across thru your budget head, It's going to be more than a 5k budget build and unless you REALLY have the skills and knowledge to do the fabrication work involving the chassis and body leave that to those that do.... Go with the flow brother, I'm not a newbie criticizing your big block DSM swap. I'm a real knowledgeable car guy as I've been wrenching and modifying cars for years along with been real involved in the racing sport, yet I still have a lot to learn and I definitely not know it all, the reason why I spent so many hours, days, weeks, months researching as much info about this type of build and even talked with more experienced guys including professional chassis builders before starting my current project to have the best idea what my project was going to need in order for me to design the best possible build plan before hand. I even wrote you a map about the chassis fabrication involved, the skills and knowledge required, what you doing wrong, and what should be your steps and for some reason you can't get it and understand it.. Or do you prefer fake and unknowledgeable people who are going to tell you, you going thru the right path ?? Cause If you prefer someone like that on the contrary to someone telling you when you are wrong I can quit my words and just let you be and figure it all by yourself and learn by trial and error and spend more than what's seems to be your unreal budget spend it redoing stuff when you realize it didn't work how you expected or how it ended up breaking... If you don't change your thinking you going to remember my name and how I told you so...

I thought about not going through with it a few times. But I have told everyone my plans for this car and If I fail I will never live it down so I must go through with it. To be honest all of you telling me I can't do it gives me more incentive. People act like these things are hard but it comes easy to me and doesn't seem to difficult. I know you are trying to advise me but clearly I'm not going to listen to you so let me figure out the hard way and you can say I told you so if I fail.

DSM's 4 life said:

I thought about not going through with it a few times. But I have told everyone my plans for this car and If I fail I will never live it down so I must go through with it. To be honest all of you telling me I can't do it gives me more incentive. People act like these things are hard but it comes easy to me and doesn't seem to difficult. I know you are trying to advise me but clearly I'm not going to listen to you so let me figure out the hard way and you can say I told you so if I fail.

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DULLY NOTED, I'LL LET YOU LEARN THE HARD WAY.. I never said it cant be done, I said it can't be done realistically under your budget. Even myself who did as much info gathering and expected to be a 20k project learned it was going to be an expensier project when I started, probably for a different reason that what your will sure be as mine went from a street/track car to a track only drag car. And yet still you say " People act like these things are hard but it comes easy to me and doesn't seem to difficult" but still your 1st initial post you came asking how to make the steering R&P fit... But whatever bro, guess you'll have to learn by making mistakes and doubling that budget in unnecessary ways cause you didn't want to listen instead of someone telling you do this this way don't do this that way... If you don't want to listen and still want to go thru the custom work yourself, atleast make a visit to a real chassis shop and talk with them, they going to tell you my same story, but hey that's you who want to take a project blind sided and not acknowledge advice probably you aint going to listen to them anyways...

Do what you like. That is all that matters. You have a ton of work ahead of you but you seem confident and have determination so as long as you keep that going, you can finish this.

To everyone else who does not like his idea or whatnot, you have made your point, move on... No need to beat a dead horse.

BTW I like the idea. Sure that motor is stock now but can be built upon later with no problem. It could also be swapped out (with a few changes) later with just about any other V8 once the initial fab work is done. Keep up the good work, ignore the haters!

okcpopeman said:

Do what you like. That is all that matters. You have a ton of work ahead of you but you seem confident and have determination so as long as you keep that going, you can finish this.

To everyone else who does not like his idea or whatnot, you have made your point, move on... No need to beat a dead horse.

BTW I like the idea. Sure that motor is stock now but can be built upon later with no problem. It could also be swapped out (with a few changes) later with just about any other V8 once the initial fab work is done. Keep up the good work, ignore the haters!

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That's exactly whats wrong, people who haven't done a similar project don't know what it takes and come encouraging someone without any real similar build to show for it... If you read all of my post, not a single time Ive hated, although I personally wouldn't do such a big block DSM swap, its his build, I still explained various times down to the letter what its needed and whats going to happen in certain scenarios... Can you do that okcpopeman ???? I bet you cant cause you probably have never taken a FWD/AWD chassis and convert it to RWD. Its not hating when you tell someone do this this way don't do that that way, its called advice... But obviously he don't want no advice, so deuces...

gabytech said:

That's exactly whats wrong, people who haven't done a similar project don't know what it takes and come encouraging someone without any real similar build to show for it... If you read all of my post, not a single time Ive hated, although I personally wouldn't do such a big block DSM swap, its his build, I still explained various times down to the letter what its needed and whats going to happen in certain scenarios... Can you do that okcpopeman ???? I bet you cant cause you probably have never taken a FWD/AWD chassis and convert it to RWD. Its not hating when you tell someone do this this way don't do that that way, its called advice... But obviously he don't want no advice, so deuces...

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Your issue is you get upset when someone doesn't take your opinion as fact. There are MANY different ways to do something so just because one way worked for you doesn't mean it cannot be done successfully another way for someone else.

I did not single you out as a hater either now did I? Guilty conscious maybe?

Also you make WAY too many assumptions about people. Is it because I don't have a build thread on here that leads you to believe that I have not done this sort of swap/conversion? You think you are the only one who has ever done this? Not everyone out there has to come post their issues or successes on a message board. Maybe I have a RWD swapped car... maybe I don't... My point is don't be so critical to the OP. You could have easily said "Hey OP, here is the way I did my conversion (insert advice here). I have not seen it done they way you are talking about so it may not work. If you try it let us know if it was successful or not." or something to that nature.

Message boards...

okcpopeman said:

Your issue is you get upset when someone doesn't take your opinion as fact. There are MANY different ways to do something so just because one way worked for you doesn't mean it cannot be done successfully another way for someone else.

I did not single you out as a hater either now did I? Guilty conscious maybe?

Also you make WAY too many assumptions about people. Is it because I don't have a build thread on here that leads you to believe that I have not done this sort of swap/conversion? You think you are the only one who has ever done this? Not everyone out there has to come post their issues or successes on a message board. Maybe I have a RWD swapped car... maybe I don't... My point is don't be so critical to the OP. You could have easily said "Hey OP, here is the way I did my conversion (insert advice here). I have not seen it done they way you are talking about so it may not work. If you try it let us know if it was successful or not." or something to that nature.

Message boards...

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Agreed to a certain extent, but my issue is not to get upset about as its not my project, my issue is me giving the kid the realest advice someone who have seen stuff like this gone wrong and someone who have seen them built right as well as Im taking a similar journey as him just not using a big block, and for some who I know by the way they advice him reflects they haven't done anything close to this kind of custom build is just ridiculous. That's my issue, why would you advice someone to go forward when you don't know the ins and out of a similar build ??? I actually never said he couldn't, I just said numerous times do it this way and don't do it that way which is beyond just saying go forward or not go forward.

I aint going to try and keep beating the subject, whats said in my part is already said, won't keep advicing someone who doesn't want to listen. But I would encourage ppl who say its possible to atleast say it if they have done it before or have done similar builds, cause if not its just flat out pointless to say do something with no real knowledge behind to back up what they advicing...