The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support Kiggly Racing
Please Support Morrison Fabrication

The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Hope you didn't take that wrong Dave, I was using you as an example as to why my thought process of saying (stock 4g63 motor as from the factory) didn't necessarily make sense. I don't think the 1.6 head was a real advantage and I wouldn't consider your setup outside of the "record" books.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the "run what you brung" modded dsm statement though. Obviously the normal modifications are already considered ok, provided you slap on a 14b. But, things like the rwd stuff aren't normal and seperate you from the discussion. Perhaps you mean things like the stroker motors?

I still don't like changing the block to the 2.4, and it's not because I think it's an advantage, in fact I don't really think it is at all. To me the 4G63 has to be the engine utilized, which has more to do with the block then the head as there really aren't any heads available that create a real advantage.

So, we agree fwd or awd using only available T/E/L or GVR4 drivetrain configuration components.

Also we haven't discussed fuel. I think standard racing fuels should be allowable, ie. methanol, ethanol, C16, VP Import, whatever. But things like those "super fuels" and/or "nitromethane" should be left out.

No worries, I know you were just citing an example. To further extend this example I also feel that the 1.6 head might have given me a slight advantage, but I also didn't go out searching for that head. I just happened to need a new head since the old one dropped 2 valves and got munched badly. My car was not complete without a head. So I called around, found a head and put it on. I didn't take off a perfectly good stock head and replace it with another.

This may be painting a fine line, but I have to question guys who are going out of their way to buy expensive parts while not putting in the time and applying their know-how to build the important parts of the car. A good example is aluminum rods; they're nice and pretty and I'd love to have a set, but reality is they will make very little difference.

I also think that getting the car on the track is a big part of this thread. It's been said many times. If any of the newbies and outsiders want to do a big build to see what it will run, I don't think anyone here is stopping you. Personally I'd encourage everyone to take it to the track and see what their car can do. Racing is fun! It's a blast and I wouldn't stop anyone from racing no matter what they drive. If you happen to set a record breaking time, then we'll sort out the details afterwards. I think we'll be able to decide if any new time qualifies as a DSM 14B record.
 
I say any engine configuration that came in a dsm, thats what the rule should be. That way i'll be eligible with the 1.8. So i can at least attempt to compete for a record. If not im stuck setting my own records. That's no fun.
 
I just had a few more thoughts on the rules.
'Acceptable mods must be common, inexpensive, or easily adaptable to the DSM platform.' I'm thinking about the RWD cars here. I know that a good RWD car is best at drag racing, but it's not a common mod. As far as I know, there are no kits to bolt on a RWD conversion even though Buschur raced a DSM that was converted to RWD approx 16 (?) years ago.

I also use the word 'or' because using an AWD trans in a FWD car can be expensive, but it's common on high powered FWD DSM's and uses stock off the shelf parts.

IMHO I would accept methanol if it was used through an injection kit, but I'd hesitate to accept it if meth was used as the primary fuel.
 
Last edited:
Well, theres definitely more to consider here than just what's on the surface.

I guess my #1 thing is chassis configuration -

- AWD

- FWD

- Should maintain full unibody construction with all factory suspension points

- and for you sneaky guys, this doesn't mean you can tube the whole front end and then weld the factory strut mounts in place.....I've seen it done before to stretch and exploit the exact wording in a rules book

You wanna build a tube car, build it.

Here's something that we haven't discussed, but again, falls under 'configuration.'

Turbo mounting location. Not that I see any gains per se', but I'm sure someone here either mentioned, or has the idea to place the turbo out front with some crazy long tube japandrel manifold...

Ideas on that?
 
Sorry just trying to compile the questions that are sticking out.

Engine: Anything that came in a DSM? Or 4G63 only?

Fuel: Methanol? (Popular Race gas is ok, E-85/E-98 ok, Pump gas ok)(methanol injection ok) Not ok: Superfuels such as FTW purple, nitromethane injection etc.

Chassis: Tubed front ends? (No tube frames, unibody chassis only)

Bolt-ons: Forward facing manifolds?

Drivetrain: I think we're in agreement, FWD or AWD utilizing factory DSM drivetrain configuration components.

I'm trying to find my way around the engine question. Allowing anything dsm allows the 1.8, 2.4, 420a etc. Maybe specify it needs to stay within the 4g series of engines that came inside a DSM vehicle?

I don't mind forward facing manifolds, it's starting to become popular and I'm not sure I really buy into it being some big advantage anyways.

As for the chassis questions, to me it's one thing to replace certain parts with tubular replacements, but another to tube the whole front end or whatever. It takes away from the integrity of a stock type car running a stock type turbo.

I think the difficulty is that although the idea of the "14b record" concentrates mostly on the turbo designation I believe that the car is also important. It's a stock turbo record, but it also means stock to it's specific vehicle and the integrity of that vehicle remaining somewhere close to "stock configuration" is important.
 
I also think that getting the car on the track is a big part of this thread. It's been said many times. If any of the newbies and outsiders want to do a big build to see what it will run, I don't think anyone here is stopping you. Personally I'd encourage everyone to take it to the track and see what their car can do. Racing is fun! It's a blast and I wouldn't stop anyone from racing no matter what they drive. If you happen to set a record breaking time, then we'll sort out the details afterwards. I think we'll be able to decide if any new time qualifies as a DSM 14B record.

The whole idea behind discussing the "rules" that qualify for the record is to be proactive and sort this out first. If you wait until after someone throws a 14b on a rail car and claims the record and then say, we'll that doesn't count, it will only cause issues. Better to clarify everything upfront.

I agree that forward facing manifolds should be allowed, as well as strokers and any DSM engine. I also agree on keeping AWD or FWD only.
 
IMHO limiting the opportunities to push the envelope In setup has the adverse effect of squashing any invention or progress. When you take away all the areas that can be improved, then why bother making an effort if the ultimate setup is a basic 2.0 with generic mods in a gutted fwd. we have all already seen how that works out.

Banning methanol as a fuel
Banning tube chassis work in whole or part
Banning 1.8, 2.3, 2.4 displacements
Banning alternate versions of cyl heads
Banning drivetrain alterations
Banning changes in turbo location, turbine housings.


These are all bad rules in my opinion. We have gone nearly a decade without any change in the record and with no serious challenge utilizing the above methods. At this point, banning all of the above simply puts the nail in the coffin of 14b racing and relegates it to obscurity once we see how ultimately quick a fwd 1g stick can go with 325hp.

I see the spirit of 14b racing as trying to get as much performance as you can out of 32lb/min of airflow from a relatively generic compressor side. I would personally rather see someone step up with a crazy setup and run it fast, give everyone something to learn from and strive for....

Rather than "official rules" bind all future efforts to mediocrity.

What some of you are proposing seems like spec miata racing to me. Lame when every car runs that same stuff and "racing" amount to minor tune/adjustment/driving with some luck thrown in, and engineering is moot.
 
The whole idea behind discussing the "rules" that qualify for the record is to be proactive and sort this out first. If you wait until after someone throws a 14b on a rail car and claims the record and then say, we'll that doesn't count, it will only cause issues. Better to clarify everything upfront.

I agree that forward facing manifolds should be allowed, as well as strokers and any DSM engine. I also agree on keeping AWD or FWD only.

IMHO limiting the opportunities to push the envelope In setup has the adverse effect of squashing any invention or progress. When you take away all the areas that can be improved, then why bother making an effort if the ultimate setup is a basic 2.0 with generic mods in a gutted fwd. we have all already seen how that works out.

Banning methanol as a fuel
Banning tube chassis work in whole or part
Banning 1.8, 2.3, 2.4 displacements
Banning alternate versions of cyl heads
Banning drivetrain alterations
Banning changes in turbo location, turbine housings.


These are all bad rules in my opinion. We have gone nearly a decade without any change in the record and with no serious challenge utilizing the above methods. At this point, banning all of the above simply puts the nail in the coffin of 14b racing and relegates it to obscurity once we see how ultimately quick a fwd 1g stick can go with 325hp.

I see the spirit of 14b racing as trying to get as much performance as you can out of 32lb/min of airflow from a relatively generic compressor side. I would personally rather see someone step up with a crazy setup and run it fast, give everyone something to learn from and strive for....

Rather than "official rules" bind all future efforts to mediocrity.

What some of you are proposing seems like spec moats racing to me. Lame.

These two posts pretty much encapsulate what I've been saying. Is it a 14B record or not?

"Stock Drivetrain/Unibody 1G (2Gs may apply) with a 14B in one of two turbine housings and a cast factory locating manifold, but no methanol unless its a single water/meth nozzle at tracks open on tuesday evenings in september" doesn't really do it for me.

It's pretty telling that next to no one, those already on the list included, can agree on what it is supposed to be.

And the idea of evaluating someones setup after posting a time is real shady. Nail it down now and let those who qualify get after it.

Tyler's 16G car is on Methanol, with a FF manifold and a partially tubed front end, nobody questions that..
 
I agree with you on some levels Nate. But, the problem is then you've made it a race/record for the guy with the thickest pocket-book. Which makes it uninteresting for the regular joe out there, no pun intended.

As if its not already that way? With the above proposed bans limiting the "field" to 1g fwd stick cars running 2.0l bottoms with 1g heads, on e98 with only generic exhaust/airflow potential....

The ONLY way left to increase performance is with spending big money on custom lightweight parts: tube suspension (but not chassis), carbon/fiberglass body parts, aluminum brakes, maybe a custom TI rear bar suspension, magnesium wheels.

If you leave no options for increasing power. No options for increasing traction and drivetrain efficiency. No options for engine efficiency. No options for fuel related gains. Where else is there to go from here ?

If it comes down to instituting rules that basically amount to "ban everything above and beyond what is already done"....them this the end of any progress.
 
I agree with you on some levels Nate. But, the problem is then you've made it a race/record for the guy with the thickest pocket-book. Which makes it uninteresting for the regular joe out there, no pun intended.

But how many Daddy Warbucks are there now or have ever participated in 14B racing? Besides, what you are proposing could well lead to it being a wallet fight.
 
I would rather have the opportunity to out engineer a competitor with a crazier setup than he can imagine, than be forced to beat him by being able to afford the ceramic wheel bearings, titanium axles, and magnesium wheels when there is no options left to explore.
 
So where is the line then? Does it have to even be a dsm? Because a tube-frame vehicle isn't any more a dsm because of the shell strapped over it then a colt, or a dragster...

Maybe you're right, maybe there shouldn't be any rules, run whatever your mind can create.
 
Well, this is certainly more complicated then I thought. Hell, I don't know. There's alot more variables then there really should be.
 
Tyler's 16G car is on Methanol, with a FF manifold and a partially tubed front end, nobody questions that..

Well, I already agree that methanol and ff manifolds should be ok. And Tyler's front end isn't tubed in the manner we're describing. I'm talking about the whole front end being tubed from the firewall.
 
My only two things are that the stock 14b be used unmodified and that it be done with a dsm platform. So only T/E/L or galant.

It may take some of you awd some custom tube chassis stuff to get down to the weight of a fwd. I wouldn't exactly exclude that one.

Remember to get close to the record it pretty much takes a race car thats trailered to the track to get the numbers we want. Any half and half street car just won't cut it.
 
Pretty Crazy what you guys are doing with the lil snail!
 
Ok, let's start here:

A. Who thinks this should be limited to the T/E/L & GVR4?

B. Who thinks FWD Colt/Mirage, RWD Starquest with 4G63 swap should be eligible?

C. Who thinks Purpose built RWD or FWD drag cars should be?


Or D - All of the above
 
Last edited:
Ok, let's start here:

A. Who thinks this should be limited to the T/E/L & GVR4? Yes

B. Who thinks FWD Colt/Mirage, RWD Starquest with 4G63 swap should be eligible? No

C. Who thinks Purpose built RWD or FWD drag cars should be? I didn't realize FWD's eligibility was being questioned?
 
Ok, let's start here:

A. Who thinks this should be limited to the T/E/L & GVR4? Yes

B. Who thinks FWD Colt/Mirage, RWD Starquest with 4G63 swap should be eligible? No

C. Who thinks Purpose built RWD or FWD drag cars should be? I didn't realize FWD's eligibility was being questioned?

Sorry! Purpose built tube style or front-halved FWD drag cars:coy:
 
Sorry! Purpose built tube style or front-halved FWD drag cars:coy:

I understood what ya ment.


I mean when it comes down to it, we are talking about a junkyard 14b turbo here. I wanna say no to tube style drag cars. But who really wants to spend that kind of money based on a turbo so small?? I thought of a forward facing and yada yada, but its not worth the money if I plan to move on later. I do plan to push the 14b a bit harder than Joe did. Not to the extent we are talking though. No methanol for me or anything exotic.

If someone wants to spend that kind of money so be it. We will all know the integrity of our own setups and the times they run.

I still think the the turbo needs to stick with the chassis it was bred in. If you open it to other mitsu cars then you might as well open it to all others makes. But keep the rules simple. To modify the 14B cartridge is a definate NO NO. Should be stock from wheel to wheel. Turbine housings do what you will. And if you want to port the compressor housing so be it. Im sure we've all looked at the compressor housing at some point in time and said "Im sure if this was smoother it would flow a tad more".
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top