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Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

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prodsm

20+ Year Contributor
258
0
Nov 12, 2002
canada, Manitoba_Canada
All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.




I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks
 
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It could be the fuel pump relay switch under the hood above the intake manifold. it has a vacuum line running from it to the fuel pressure regulator on the right side of the fuel rail. my understanding is that this electrical component allows an increase in fuel pressure (43-45 psi) upon startup in order to promote cold startup. if it is a summer day out (ex: 70 degrees Fahrenheit) this part is not needed, (some people remove them when they do the taboo speed shop vacuum line delete.)

Also I thought DSM's don't prime the fuel pump? I can't here mine when I turn the key to accessory. I hear it wind down when i turn the car off.
 
So after reading some my observation is your trying to get your car to tuned to run 1650cc injectors but you don't know how to tune them? They ran fine with stock injectors and your 1650cc been tested they run fine. But when you try and run them on your car you can't get them to work properly. Looks like you messed with some settings and got a little out of it but then your stumped. If everything checks out I would really go see if you can get someone to tune it for you. I know there some people on here like my1gdsm can do great remote tunes. Atleast rule that out if anything. As far as I know there low z injectors so you really don't need anything fany for them. Did you order or install the resistor pack delete? Hope you get it figured out.
 
So after reading some my observation is your trying to get your car to tuned to run 1650cc injectors but you don't know how to tune them? They ran fine with stock injectors and your 1650cc been tested they run fine. But when you try and run them on your car you can't get them to work properly. Looks like you messed with some settings and got a little out of it but then your stumped. If everything checks out I would really go see if you can get someone to tune it for you. I know there some people on here like my1gdsm can do great remote tunes. Atleast rule that out if anything. As far as I know there low z injectors so you really don't need anything fany for them. Did you order or install the resistor pack delete? Hope you get it figured out.

thanks for your input, let me clarify a few things.

i'm not confused on the tuning aspect, i have helped tune several cars.

the BM1650 settings should be as such -
E85 - -59% global - 500-800usecs deadtime.
93oct - -72% global - 500-800usecs deadtime.

with these settings the car should start and idle, which is not the case, it will start with stock injectors and FIC850 injectors with the ECU set up accordingly, but will not start with the bm1650's.

because the bm1650's are a low impedance injector deleting the resistor pack will just fry the ECU, so no i haven't ordered one.
 
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So if it working fine with all the other injectors then last but not least my style would be get a different set from fic and have them look at those ones. Sence you know the tuning part on your end and everything else is fine then it's got to be those injectors. I am use to old school injectors they have changed alot over the years. So get to fic and have them do work.
 
So here's the story...
My car has been sitting for a while because I don't drive it in the winter. Last weekend, I changed the crankshaft pulley/harmonic balancer on my car. I went to drive the car afterwards and it made it half a mile down the road when it stuttered and died on me. I finally got it to start back up and made it back to the house. Stalled again. Got it started, gave it gas and let the rpms drop down like normal and it stalled. Couldn't get it to start after that.
I got time today to work on the car again. I couldn't get it to start at all. I checked fuel, all seemed good. I then went to check for spark. I pulled out the farthest to the passenger side spark plug, set it on the vc and had the gf crank the car. To my surprise, the car fired right up! I put the spark plug back in, put the wire on, and it started right up now. I put a full tank of gas in it now.
My question is.....W.T.F?!?!? I'm supposed to be driving this car tonight (about an hour drive) but I'm a little bit leery about driving it that far at this point. Any clue what would cause this? Should it be ok to drive now?

My thought was possibly bad gas from it sitting in the freezing cold.

Thanks!

Well apparently it wasn't ok to drive. I took it down the road and noticed that my afr was way lean, like 19ish. I couldn't give it more than about 20% throttle or it bogged. I turned around after about a mile, and it stuttered and stalled about 200 feet from my driveway. Right before it stalled, my wideband went all the way lean and if I pushed the gas at all, it bogged a little bit. It would stay running until I pushed in the clutch. Then it died and I couldn't start it again. I tried pulling the spark plug again like I did earlier and no luck this time.
 
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well just because the fuel pump turns on doesn't mean that it's putting out enough pressure to start and run your car. I think you're on the right track with the fuel pump though. Make sure that it is coming on and then do a pressure Check.

Pressure was fine, I disconnect the hose from fuel rail and then I jump the relay to spark the fuel pump and gas were coming out. thanks

[PROBLEM SOLVED] My ECU was died already, I replaced with a Neon one just to make sure it works, and it did :hellyeah: now I have all lights on my dashboard and it started !! Thanks one more time your help, I appreciated.
 
thanks for your input, let me clarify a few things.

i'm not confused on the tuning aspect, i have helped tune several cars.

the BM1650 settings should be as such -
E85 - -59% global - 500-800usecs deadtime.
93oct - -72% global - 500-800usecs deadtime.

I don't get on here much anymore. But seen my name mentioned and think I recognize the car setup if I have spoke with you... Anyway.

Problem is that like as mentioned the Latency of the Injector is going to be different at lower/higher voltage and not linear to the setting in DA. If you read over the links posted IIRC. I mention this in those threads (if they are the ones I'm thinking of) I talk about adjusting these values and not using the base stock injector setting in DA and why this can be a issue.

With these settings the car should start and idle, which is not the case, it will start with stock injectors and FIC850 injectors with the ECU set up accordingly, but will not start with the bm1650's.

because the bm1650's are a low impedance injector deleting the resistor pack will just fry the ECU, so no i haven't ordered one.

I think there is a bit a confusion on this if you were going to get anything it would be a injector driver. But, it really shouldn't be needed in most cases with proper deadtimes.

Your injectors are low-z you wouldn't want to delete the resistor pack as you know.

As far as the log the car is low on voltage and trying to fire the injectors and crank the car at 9.6 volts. I'd adjust the deadtime in DA and post another log of the car cranking with a good 12+ voltage in the battery and hopefully a good reserve of power to not be dropping like it is... .
 
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I don't get on here much anymore. But seen my name mentioned and think I recognize the car setup if I have spoke with you... Anyway.

Problem is that like as mentioned the Latency of the Injector is going to be different at lower/higher voltage and not linear to the setting in DA. If you read over the links posted IIRC. I mention this in those threads (if they are the ones I'm thinking of) I talk about adjusting these values and not using the base stock injector setting in DA and why this can be a issue.



I think there is a bit a confusion on this if you were going to get anything it would be a injector driver. But, it really shouldn't be needed in most cases with proper deadtimes.

Your injectors are low-z you wouldn't want to delete the resistor pack as you know.

As far as the log the car is low on voltage and trying to fire the injectors and crank the car at 9.6 volts. I'd adjust the deadtime in DA and post another log of the car cranking with a good 12+ voltage in the battery and hopefully a good reserve of power to not be dropping like it is... .

thanks for the added info.

i have gone into DA and added 500usecs to each column, i have read that people are adding as much as 1500to the 7&9 volt settings.

do you think i need to add more?

the car has been on the charger for the past two days so i will add a fresh log with the added settings.
i will try on 93oct first since its 34'F here and will probably have a better chance of having it fire than E85 even with the extremely short pulse width thats required.

if it doesn't fire i will switch to e85 to try and get something.


i am arranging to swap my BM1650's with another car early next week to see if it effects the other car the same.
 
It's nearly impossible to say anything with out a log or more exact info... Post one up with some of the changes mentioned and the car charged and you should get some more help I'm sure.
 
sat in cold could have gotten moisture in the gas.. some heet with injector cleaner would probably clear it up
 
How long did the car sit?
Sounds like water in the gas. Get an additive for drying out the fuel.
 
If it does turn out to be water, Check the Fuel pump/sending unit assembly for condensation as that tends to cause corrosion and foul out the connections. My 1st 1G's gas gauge never worked, pulled the assembly out, a little sanding later and ta-da. Just a preventive measure.
 
Thanks for the responses. Water in the gas is really the only thing I can think of with these symptoms. I'll try that additive stuff and see what happens. I have a fresh set of injectors ready. The pump was just installed before I let it sit. I didn't plan on letting the car sit for so long, but I got caught in a snow storm so I didn't have much choice. Stupid on my part.
Should I change out the fuel filter too? I have a brand new one from extreme psi. Also, should I change out the spark plugs?
 
Alright will do. Any clue why it would start up when I pulled a spark plug out?
 
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