destruckeclipse said:

Yup 4.20 in SD for 87 as well, I would still never bother running it. If my math is correct, the difference between 87 and 91 in cost every fill up is 5 dollars on a empty tank...

Can't afford it you should buy a honda to daily / save gas monies. I bought a Jeep to daily, didn't save any gas money =x

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That's because jeeps have the aerodynamic efficiency of a brick!

^

Bricks are more pleasant to drive than Jeeps.

If anyone believes in meth inj it would be me, . Although if you have e85 avail, I'd run that, unfortunately I don't have any down here. I run 100% denatured alcohol and went from 435hp very conservative tune to 609hp no timing in the motor, and rich, super safe tune. But, depending on how radical you want to get warning meters are more important than ever when you use this. I have a spray on LED, knock light, and a level gauge on my tank, so I can always monitor any aspect of the system.

If I were building a DD DSM right now, with only 1 E85 station in 50 miles, I would install a meth kit with a failsafe. Use Ceddymods map switch for problems, be done. I ran it on a beater for 2 years, and the only thing I lost was an IAT at the beginning as I was being stupid. Buy a good system with a good failsafe, and set it up right. I would also probably tune for 87 as well. 87 with meth should be at or better than 91-93, depending on tuner, and how much you trust the failsafe. Why waste 93 all the time when you can waste methanol some of the time? Don't have to worry about someone else putting in the wrong nozzle at the gas station. And if you get bad gas and need to bump your octame, adding 93 to 87 is much simpler than adding 94+ to 93.

I used an m1 nozzle (660cc engine) that kicked on at 2 psi. My 4 liter tank lasted probably most of a month, and I wasn't nice to the car.

I've been running water/meth for few years now with out any issues. I have aem progressive kit, it comes with 1 gallon tank that has a low level sensor in it.

I ran out of mix one time during a pull (30 psi) check engine flashed few times because of knock, I glanced at my wideband and it was 12.5 instead of 11.5 I knew right away what happened so I let off. It's not that common to run out of mix on your daily driver if you check it at least every 10th time you drive it I have my tank mounted where the stock intercooler used to be so its just a matter of looking in to a bumper.

I used to run 2-550cc nozzles before the throttle body but one time when I took my intake manifold off I noticed that it looked like there was more water getting in to cylinders #1 and less in #4, water don't like to change direction as easy as air does. Since then I've ran 4-315cc nozzles 1 in each runner of the intake manifold, total of 1260cc. The only problem with running nozzles in the intake manifold is that there is vacuum in the manifold and it will pull all the fluid out of your tank unless you put a check valve or an electronic solenoid before all the nozzles. I have all 4 aem nozzles and they each have a check valve built it them, so far I had no issues.

I've read that some of you are running denatured alcohol and sounds like you're having good luck with it. I don't know if any of you have ever tried this or not but for the past year and a half I've been running -20 degrees windshield washer fluid mixed in with 4 yellow bottles of HEET. It ends up being about 50/50 water/meth

I'm able to run 35-36 psi of boost on my HX52 at 19 degrees of timing at 8000 rpms with few blimps of knock here and there but never going over .7-1.1
My friend ran 44psi on this HX52 with the same mix but his timing was a bit more conservative about 14 degrees.

If any of you guys know of something that might work better I would be glad to try it out.

SHaman said:

If I were building a DD DSM right now, with only 1 E85 station in 50 miles, I would install a meth kit with a failsafe. Use Ceddymods map switch for problems, be done. I ran it on a beater for 2 years, and the only thing I lost was an IAT at the beginning as I was being stupid. Buy a good system with a good failsafe, and set it up right. I would also probably tune for 87 as well. 87 with meth should be at or better than 91-93, depending on tuner, and how much you trust the failsafe. Why waste 93 all the time when you can waste methanol some of the time? Don't have to worry about someone else putting in the wrong nozzle at the gas station. And if you get bad gas and need to bump your octame, adding 93 to 87 is much simpler than adding 94+ to 93.

I used an m1 nozzle (660cc engine) that kicked on at 2 psi. My 4 liter tank lasted probably most of a month, and I wasn't nice to the car.

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I would not recommend running 87 octane and trying to use meth to bump it up. Most of us are running meth because we are pushing the limits of pump gas already. Why would you run a low octane fuel to save a few bucks.

Also I didnt have meth kick in till about 18psi. There is no reason to run it on low boost you are just using up more meth than you need to.

silvreclips said:

I would not recommend running 87 octane and trying to use meth to bump it up.

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I did regular and meth with my DD for several years, again without problems.

Most of us are running meth because we are pushing the limits of pump gas already.

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I don't plan on skating the thin line. Never really been that hardcore, especially on a DD. I just like the idea of keeping things clean, having a cool intake tract, and low EGTs. Call me easily amused.

Why would you run a low octane fuel to save a few bucks.

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It's not about saving a few bucks, it's about safety and past experience for me. Living where I have, bad gas is always a thought, and the only thing that could be mixed with 87 to drop it's octane is diesel or kero, which is much less likely than 87 into 93. Add that to single hoses per pump and filling up at 3/4 to 1/2 of a tank after the earthquake, you can see where the extra insurance would come from. But to directly address your question, how much of the time does the average engine need the extra octane? Inversely, how much money am I wasting running 93 when the car is only "using it" 10-15% of the time?

Also I didn't have meth kick in till about 18psi. There is no reason to run it on low boost you are just using up more meth than you need to.

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In 30C 80% humidity weather with a 25 mph average speed in a 660cc engine with a A4top mount intercooler, I would disagree. My max was 13-12psi depending on the season. Different car, different use.

Direct port water/meth FTW!

Does meth/water cause a lot of rust in the piping?

If you have steel piping it can. If you have aluminum it can corrode it some, but not enough to worry about.

Looking for more reasons NOT to run meth/water on a dd. My car is knock happy but did good on 110 octane. Trying to figure out if I should run meth/water but would like to know all the cons besides pump failure.

E85 will eat up certain injectors. If I called a couple of vendors on here out for falsifying that their injectors are e85 compatible, I will probably get a pm from the admin for ruining the site support. I am an e85 user but I highly recommend asking the guys from FIC for injector recommendation. So far PTE 1000cc, 1200cc, and 1600cc works for me and my friends. Bosch 1650cc high impedence will rust up very fast. We are talking about failure within week with the Bosch 1650cc. RC 1200cc will rust up. Gumming of the injector tip is very likely with e85 as a daily. MPG is terrible with E85. E85 is a great fuel but it is definitely not perfect for dd.

I don't have enough experience with meth/water injection to give a good opinion on it. I can say that it can drop iat down significant and allow for a lot more timing. I have see. As much as 80 degree drop on an MR2.

I have a few suggestions for running meth/h2o on a daily.
-sacrifice a little hp and run the lowest level of meth/h2o possible to control knock.
-Tune the car a little richer to buffer meth/h2o system failure. 11:1 is pretty safe. With a low level meth injection jet like 175cc, afr will not be lean enough meth anything. Even at 13:1 afr, you are likely not going to melt your pistons. The car will buck and you will know to let off.
-If you are running sd on ecmlink, trim the iat vs fuel graph to inject more fuel at high iat. Let pretend that you run 75-80 or less degree of iat with meth/h2o. Trim it so it will run richer above 75-80 iat. This way you will be cover if your meth system fail.
-Spend a little more money for the flow sensor that will cut boost or switch you fuel map if you meth fail. This means getting a electric boost controller.

If you planning to bust someone up on the street or race your car at the track, you should know that your meth/h2o system is working.

The main unavoidable issue is manifold design. The intake manifold on a fuel injected car is not designed as a wet manifold. In a carb type manifold the manifold is designed to equally distribute a fuel air mixture. Not so on a fuel injected car. Just because the wideband reads 11.5, it doesn't mean that all 4 cylinders are running at 11.5:1. Some will be richer, and some leaner. A direct port setup can get around this, but at that point, why not just run a better fuel?


Don't get me wrong, I ran meth injection on my stealth tt, with boltons, to be able to run a few more psi of boost safely. But, on a fully built car, why risk it?

donniekak said:

A direct port setup can get around this, but at that point, why not just run a better fuel?

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Especially when some guys are injecting such a large volume of methanol, with such a complex system, that in reality it's a second fuel system all together. So I agree, why not just use your existing fuel system with a better fuel? The cons of E85 really aren't that bad and can be easily avoided.

E85 is about 40 mins away and putting it in barrels just seems too much of a hassel for a dd.