Hi guys, so I have rebuilt my engine (7bolt) with wisecos 10.5:1, manly rods, (stil a 2.0 lt), cometic head gasket, ARP bolts, and some new oem parts, like water pump and piping, poly motor mounts and some front suspension new parts (like almost all!)

Anyway, my next concern is a quick spooling turbo setup suitable for street...
I know my question is too vague, because I still don´t decide on power goals, I am still on 400'ish 500'ish...

Well what I am asking from you guys is to share your setups with me and tell me how they work for you and what you advice.

I am completely ignorant in waste gates and how to choose one for me...

I been thinking on an S366, maybe a FP Big28, or even a PT6262

So? Wath can you tell me?

Thanks =D

I think your next step should be concerning how your going to tune that thing (in other words I hope you are getting DSMlink..). Also are you going to be running pump or e85??

To your question, I don't think your gonna find a very fast spooling turbo for the goal of 500. Hopefully justin hops in here and could throw you some ideas.

*** edit - you should also update your mods list

Yes I'm aware of the need for tunning thanks, and I did updated my profile a few secs ago...
I am currently using pump gas but I plan on using race gas on special days
And I know 500hp is a lot to ask for quick spooling but I want the quickes spool that I can get for that goal ( i mean full bost on 4500 or 5000 is better than fullboost in 5500 or 6000)

thats somewhat the reason why I am asking, to know what levels of boost expect on certain setups

How about the pte 5858? I made 402awhp on 91 pump gas on a mustang dyno..should be around 500hp on race gas.

10.5:1 turbo motor? I sure hope you have E85 available

You need to nail down your goals more precisely. The s366 and FP28 aren't in the same ball park, not even the same league. The s366 is good for 800whp. FP B28 might get you half that.

Much more research is in order before you worry about wastegates and such

Expecting full boost in third by mid-late 4k range is reasonable atleast for a 500whp turbo. You will have to run enough boost to sit on part of the map where the turbo ismoving enough air to support the power you want to make.

Pump gas and your compression pretty much dictate low boost, so you need a compressor large enough to move 50lbs/min at low PR, and so relatively efficiently. Then you need to turn enough rpm at a high enough VE to creep that far right on the map at that PR

If you are stuck with that compression and pump gas .. build your valvetrain, get a big cam with a serious clutch and use the s366 in a big T4 Airwerks housing and the 79mm turbine wheel. Also invest in water injection system and a large intercooler.

There will be lag but that combo will at least get you your goal with a bit of margin for error in the tune.

I'm a huge fan of the FP 3586HTA or the PTE6466. Both would be monsters!

dexterholland04 said:

I'm a huge fan of the FP 3586HTA or the PTE6466. Both would be monsters!

Click to expand...

Those would bee the smallest I would run on that setup, but they cost triple what an s300sx3 in an airwerks housing does. You can't rebuild them affordably either.

S300sx3-66 in .91 T4 goes for $730 at boost lab

3586 HTA is 2200 from FP

x98awddsm said:

How about the pte 5858? I made 402awhp on 91 pump gas on a mustang dyno..should be around 500hp on race gas.

Click to expand...

Seems really expensive, my three options are under $1000, how much you got it for?

LandSpeed-DSM I know they are really diferent turbos, but thats what I have considered...

LandSpeed-DSM said:

.. build your valvetrain, get a big cam with a serious clutch and use the s366 in a big T4 Airwerks housing and the 79mm turbine wheel. Also invest in water injection system and a large intercooler.

Click to expand...

Yep, i have in mind a really fancy headwork in the future. I apreciate your sugestion, but won´t a large inercooler give me more lag?

Daiboro said:

Seems really expensive, my three options are under $1000, how much you got it for?

LandSpeed-DSM I know they are really diferent turbos, but thats what I have considered...



Yep, i have in mind a really fancy headwork in the future. I apreciate your sugestion, but won´t a large inercooler give me more lag?

Click to expand...

Only one of your options was under 1k, and one of them has been discontinued. The B28 was tapped out at less than 400.. if you are aiming 400+ why was it considered?

You really need to put less emphasis on lag. Its entirely overblown and mostly by people who have never run a legitimately laggy large turbo on one of these cars.

Ive had nearly two dozen turbo setups on my DSMs and other projects over the years.. so theres has been much to experiment with.

Ive had a 30X12X3 FMIC with 2.75" piping on a 14B back to back with the stock cooler and piping before putting an s200sx-59 on. Spool change after the IC change was negligible. But instead I picked up a ton of power on the same tune and again when it allowed me to advance timing, lean out and run more boost.

Then after installing the 59mm turbo and a custom cam, there was a 1200rpm penalty in spool which was easily forgotten because I gained over 30lbs/min airflow and extended my power band from choking by 6500 to pulling like a train through 9250 while experimenting with turbine housings.

You are looking at 62 and 66mm turbos, take in the bigger picture. Your combo has you pigeon holed as well. What possessed you to build such a high comp turbo motor for pump gas?

Daiboro said:

wisecos 10.5:1,

Click to expand...

quick spooling turbo

Click to expand...

400'ish 500'ish...

Click to expand...

using pump gas

Click to expand...

All of these things aren't going to work. Your compression alone is way too high to run anything on plain pump gas IMO.

But even compression aside, there's a good saying about turbo setups: Quick spool, pump gas, high horsepower. Pick only 2. A 16g will spool around 3k and can run pump gas, but it won't make 450hp. A PTE 6262 will make 450hp on pump gas, but forget about spooling anytime today. The closest you can get to all 3 is a Holset. But again, your 10.5:1 CR is likely too high for even an HX40.

LandSpeed-DSM said:

Then after installing the 59mm turbo and a custom cam, there was a 1200rpm penalty in spool which was easily forgotten because I gained over 30lbs/min airflow and extended my power band from choking by 6500 to pulling like a train through 9250 while experimenting with turbine housings.

You are looking at 62 and 66mm turbos, take in the bigger picture. Your combo has you pigeon holed as well. What possessed you to build such a high comp turbo motor for pump gas?

Click to expand...

You are reving to 9250??

And I got possessed by curiosity, I want to squeeze the 10.5:1 CR, I kind of think I can get better results on a higher CR, even on pump gas due to fuel eficiency and some other calculations that theoricaly give you an advantage.... and if it does not work I may change it in a year or so for lower CR along with a lighter crankshaft

I think this car will be with me till the end of his days and he is getting Xmas presents every year

Yes that was on an old combo, felt it would've made power past that but I felt I was at the limit of my valve springs then, and keeping oil in the pan/draining the head was proving difficult.

New setup should pull to 11k or thereabouts if needed.. shimmed kiggly high pressure springs and HLA, much better crankcase evac setup, breathing with a custom GSC S3 cam on adjustable gears fed by a 71mm T4 Holset. 4 inch thick intercooler, E85 and three meth nozzles.

Aiming to max out the 71mm and step up to an s400-75. Provided the bottom end holds together and shifts don't lock out.

I'm not sure what fuel efficiency has to do with what you are proposing, and I'd be curious to see these calculations

A serious cam would soak up that CR and drop your dynamic compression, btw.

You may just have to learn the hardway though, it can be a great teacher! Hope things work out.

Daiboro said:

I been thinking on an S366, maybe a FP Big28, or even a PT6262

Click to expand...

Just curious why an OEM upgrade like a T28 is even being considered versus a 62mm PTE and 66mm Borg. Both of those turbos have a larger compressor INducer than the T28's EXducer spec.

Your entire build is all over the place- you don't need 10.5:1 compression to make power, especially if you're considering pump gas. You'd be lucky to make 25psi with no knock on a 6262 and compression that high using pump gas.

JusMX141 said:

Just curious why an OEM upgrade like a T28 is even being considered versus a 62mm PTE and 66mm Borg. Both of those turbos have a larger compressor INducer than the T28's EXducer spec.

Your entire build is all over the place- you don't need 10.5:1 compression to make power, especially if you're considering pump gas. You'd be lucky to make 25psi with no knock on a 6262 and compression that high using pump gas.

Click to expand...

Because it seemed like a good option it flows air realy steady acording to some dyno sheets I saw and given the fact that I am going to run low bost level it was a good option, but I sarted to think bigger....

LandSpeed-DSM said:

I'm not sure what fuel efficiency has to do with what you are proposing, and I'd be curious to see these calculations

A serious cam would soak up that CR and drop your dynamic compression, btw.

You may just have to learn the hardway though, it can be a great teacher! Hope things work out.

Click to expand...

hehe well the thing that got me is this....
kind of find it hard to explain but here I go

On an engine, you are looking for a really good explosion, for that you increase the pressure of the stuff you are going to ignite, on a turbo engine you do it by increasing boost, lets say ...You are running 24 PSI of boost at an altitude of 3730 feet. Your motor's static compression is 8.5 :1. At this boost level and altitude your effective compression ratio is 21.63 :1... but by running 16 PSI of boost at same altitude. and motor's static compression is 10.5 :1. At this boost level and altitude your effective compression ratio is 21.18 :1....

botom line, you can get a smaller turbo, to flow a relatively lower level of boost and hit approximately the same HP

So, I need a turbo that will make full boost (18-22 psi) by end of low range or mid range (or ASAP) and keep it up till the red line.

What do you think?

LandSpeed-DSM said:

10.5:1 turbo motor? I sure hope you have E85 available
.

Click to expand...

I have 2 gas stations nearby with e85, hope they still sell it

/I don't know that you are absorbing what we are trying to tell you.. your calculations are neglecting a great many things
//We've tried to help point you down the right path, but I think you may just have to find out on your own

Daiboro said:

On an engine, you are looking for a really good explosion, for that you increase the pressure of the stuff you are going to ignite, on a turbo engine you do it by increasing boost,

Click to expand...

Your actually looking for a precise and extremely rapid expansion. Yes, raising the pressure applied to the fuel will result in higher efficiency. But that's not the main purpose of a turbo, which is used to increase volumetric efficiency; Simply how much air the engine can move. This is largely dependent upon the airflow capabilities of the turbo, not just boost pressure. A T28 at 20psi will flow much less volume than a PTE6262 at 20psi. More air means more fuel, which leads to more power.

lets say ...You are running 24 PSI of boost at an altitude of 3730 feet. Your motor's static compression is 8.5 :1. At this boost level and altitude your effective compression ratio is 21.63 :1... but by running 16 PSI of boost at same altitude. and motor's static compression is 10.5 :1. At this boost level and altitude your effective compression ratio is 21.18 :1....

Click to expand...

Like I said, this shows how more compression (pressure) can result in higher efficiency. Your able to make more power with the same mass of fuel, there's no doubt about that. But keep in mind that higher compression increases thermal efficiency. Too much heat will eventually cause the fuel to ignite automatically (preignition) or even explode (detonation). The more heat the fuel can handle, the higher it's octane rating.

botom line, you can get a smaller turbo, to flow a relatively lower level of boost and hit approximately the same HP

Click to expand...

Again, there's a difference between pressure and airflow. Higher compression means more power from a given volume of fuel, therefore you won't need as much airflow. But now you have to consider the efficiency of the turbo itself. A smaller turbo will typically produce more heat at the same airflow. Since your already heating the air/fuel significantly with compression, the added heat of the compressed air charge and additional air/fuel being compressed will be a recipe for preignition/detonation. So even if you only need the airflow of a T28, you'll still need the efficiency of a PTE 6262.

What do you think?

Click to expand...

I think you should find an alternative fuel source before anything. You won't make it far on pump gas with 10.5:1 compression. Plain and simple.

=D haha landspeed....

And wes393, it seems to me that I am getting closer to find the right turbo, now I know it has to be one with realy high flow rate and be efficient... now, what turbo will do that?

And I´am thinking that a racing thermostat (with lower open temp) and a radiator are needed now...

And there is E85 in my area in case 91 octane does not work, don't get stressed, just help me work it out and if it does not work I will admit it and switch to 9:1 cr or 8.5:1 cr

I know it is a challenge but go on and step out of your confort zone

Thanks for the help guys, keep it up

up to speed quickly with big flow-
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/457852-vgt-blaylock-switchblade.html#post153205948

Daiboro said:

=D haha landspeed....

And wes393, it seems to me that I am getting closer to find the right turbo, now I know it has to be one with realy high flow rate and be efficient... now, what turbo will do that?

And I´am thinking that a racing thermostat (with lower open temp) and a radiator are needed now...

And there is E85 in my area in case 91 octane does not work, don't get stressed, just help me work it out and if it does not work I will admit it and switch to 9:1 cr or 8.5:1 cr

I know it is a challenge but go on and step out of your confort zone

Thanks for the help guys, keep it up

Click to expand...

See post #5, and 7.

I design and tune pump gas builds on 10.4:1 L series Honda motors regularly, this is my comfort zone. We are trying to help, please start listening.

Not intending to be rude, but I'm not sure how many different ways it can be said.

Theres what you want to read that affirms your decisions, and then theres what you should be roing because it works. You will learn one way or the other.

I'm listening hehe even if it does not look like... I'am aware that i don't know, thats why i'am asking... and no one is being rude, I apreciate that.

LandSpeed-DSM said:

use the s366 in a big T4 Airwerks housing and the 79mm turbine wheel.

Click to expand...

so that will do it? can you also advice me in in wastegate, blow off valve, bost controler, and water meth? to run with this turbo and anything else i need to run it (I know I need a bigger fuelpump, fuelrail and pressure regulator and injectors...)

Daiboro said:

so that will do it? can you also advice me in in wastegate, blow off valve, bost controler, and water meth? to run with this turbo and anything else i need to run it (I know I need a bigger fuelpump, fuelrail and pressure regulator and injectors...)

Click to expand...

Honestly if you have to ask you probably shouldn't run it. I would research what people are putting down with the 366 & see if its for you. Running a big turbo isn't cheap & with one wrong move you can easily destroy a lot of things.

You might wanna look at something smaller like a 3076 or look into the BW 200's

Bringing this one back up after 5mos eh? Well, after reading through and looking at OPs mods, i dont think he ever picked one .
E85 with a 6 blade 40 on t3 housing would work well for 500hp.
Ive personally been looking at the bullseye version of the s364 ett. Looks pretty nice and i would assume its easily rebuilt unlike a ball bearing unit. OP probably wont read this but oh well

boost97gst said:

Bringing this one back up after 5mos eh? Well, after reading through and looking at OPs mods, i dont think he ever picked one .
E85 with a 6 blade 40 on t3 housing would work well for 500hp.
Ive personally been looking at the bullseye version of the s364 ett. Looks pretty nice and i would assume its easily rebuilt unlike a ball bearing unit. OP probably wont read this but oh well

Click to expand...

I was highly intoxicated when I bumped this.. i didn't even notice the dates

11Banger said:

I was highly intoxicated when I bumped this.. i didn't even notice the dates

Click to expand...

You were highly intoxicated on a Monday at 5:16 in the afternoon??

grothe3297venge said:

You were highly intoxicated on a Monday at 5:16 in the afternoon??

Click to expand...

I just got back from deployment & don't have work for the next 30 days... what would you do