The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

Phil1320 · Jan 15, 2013

ARFWD said:
Were you logging those runs Phil?? Your Mph varies alot thoughout a day.

No, never logged one run. Yes, mph does change alot. Generally, if you see a low 1/8 mph, the.1/4 mph is high. I've attributed it to heat soak of the EVO intercooler. Of note, before the chip, 9 passes trapping 115+ mph. After the chip, only twice in the 115s, and never in the 116s...

1qkfwd · Jan 15, 2013

Phil1320 said:
No, never logged one run. Yes, mph does change alot. Generally, if you see a low 1/8 mph, the.1/4 mph is high. I've attributed it to heat soak of the EVO intercooler. Of note, before the chip, 9 passes trapping 115+ mph. After the chip, only twice in the 115s, and never in the 116s...

Might be yanking timing giving you that power loss. Kind of looks like you ended up making less power but the car was hooking better towards the end. Now that you have link im sure you can keep things more in check.

Phil1320 · Jan 15, 2013

ARFWD said:
Might be yanking timing giving you that power loss. Kind of looks like you ended up making less power but the car was hooking better towards the end. Now that you have link im sure you can keep things more in check.

You're probably right. I'm pretty confident that the car felt stronger before the chip with timing mods, and you can see it. No doubt the studderbox works well though. It brought my best 60' of 1.54 down to 1.48, however that doesn't do a ton for overall ET. I will be shooting for 1.30's next time out. And, yeah, dsmlink should help in many ways...

1qkfwd · Jan 16, 2013

Phil1320 said:
You're probably right. I'm pretty confident that the car felt stronger before the chip with timing mods, and you can see it. No doubt the studderbox works well though. It brought my best 60' of 1.54 down to 1.48, however that doesn't do a ton for overall ET. I will be shooting for 1.30's next time out. And, yeah, dsmlink should help in many ways...

I first read this and thought maybe 1.3s where a far fetched goal on a lower powered car. But then I got to thinkin. Our 16g we got the car to consistently hit mid 1.5s on bfg 225-45-17 drag radials. There was more left on the table with that car to. I think if we did more tweaking the could possibly cut a high 1.4. Then I thought about my 1.3 and how easily attainable it was. That car could've cut better 60' time as well. So I think that you have yourself a pretty good goal set for yourself with that. Here I am trying to hit 1.5s and that's not close to awd status on your level.

Phil1320 · Jan 16, 2013

ARFWD said:
I first read this and thought maybe 1.3s where a far fetched goal on a lower powered car. But then I got to thinkin. Our 16g we got the car to consistently hit mid 1.5s on bfg 225-45-17 drag radials. There was more left on the table with that car to. I think if we did more tweaking the could possibly cut a high 1.4. Then I thought about my 1.3 and how easily attainable it was. That car could've cut better 60' time as well. So I think that you have yourself a pretty good goal set for yourself with that. Here I am trying to hit 1.5s and that's not close to awd status on your level.

That's cool, glad to see you're open-minded to it! With some supporting reasons as well from your own experiences. By NO means am I believing: I can easily cut 1.30's. However, with Nate hitting 1.46....I truly think it's in the realm of being attainable.

You don't think?

I'd say it's close if not...

1.39 is probably as hard for me to hit as it would be for you to hit, say....1.50-1.53 ?

1qkfwd · Jan 16, 2013

Phil1320 said:
That's cool, glad to see you're open-minded to it! With some supporting reasons as well from your own experiences. By NO means am I believing: I can easily cut 1.30's. However, with Nate hitting 1.46....I truly think it's in the realm of being attainable.

You don't think?

I'd say it's close if not...

1.39 is probably as hard for me to hit as it would be for you to hit, say....1.50-1.53 ?

I wouldnt say its out of the question. I know gaining tenths in the 60' time is the hardest thing to do and keep it consistant. Definately not the same as cutting tenths off of the 1/4 mile et. Buy looking at your slips and how youve managed to consistantly drop your 60' times to what they are now, I see room for improvement. Also you know your car more than anyone else. So youll see something that others dont.

Now how done up is your suspension and are you running a welded diff?? Forgive me if the info is out there already.

Id say yes that you shooting for that would be like me trying for low 1.5s. I know Joe was hitting like mid 1.5s with his car. So I know I can at least do that. I will also see if there is room for improvement.

Phil1320 · Jan 16, 2013

Also, another goal I have set is to run a quicker 1/8 mile than Joe B. did on his 10.87, which is 6.99. Some may say that's useless, or stupid, however, I think bettering his 1/8 mile time is a more attainable goal, then the 1/4. I have my doubts that 14b power can run 10's in the AWD platform.

Nate Crisman · Jan 16, 2013

My 1.46 was leaving at full power, the only way it would leave harder is more power/weight ratio. I don't think there was anything left in the setup/tune/suspension that would have dropped it to 1.39

Maybe with a 16g that would make more than 21psi on the converter. (Launch it at 30psi!!!!). Maybe if I could get 400lb more out?

With the clutch/stick trans you can always add more flywheel weight and rpm & drop the clutch faster provided the traction is there. It's an adjustable system unlike the automatic that has no realistic adjustment for launch rpm without modifying the converter.

I could see a hydraulic staging brake being usefull in a stick/14b car in order to come out at a lower engine rpm but higher boost level. More torque than +rpm/-boost and gives you more time to make the 1-2 shift.

I know when I had a 14b in my gvr4 on slicks, I had the launch rev limit at like 6800rpm and was trying to shift at 7000. Basically trying to hit the tires with as much inertia as possible, but it often lead to massive overrevs on first gear and missed 1-2 shifts.

Phil1320 · Jan 16, 2013

ARFWD said:
I wouldnt say its out of the question. I know gaining tenths in the 60' time is the hardest thing to do and keep it consistant. Definately not the same as cutting tenths off of the 1/4 mile et. Buy looking at your slips and how youve managed to consistantly drop your 60' times to what they are now, I see room for improvement. Also you know your car more than anyone else. So youll see something that others dont.

Now how done up is your suspension and are you running a welded diff?? Forgive me if the info is out there already.

Id say yes that you shooting for that would be like me trying for low 1.5s. I know Joe was hitting like mid 1.5s with his car. So I know I can at least do that. I will also see if there is room for improvement.

Nice, glad you see some room there.

Very true about knowing your own car. Not sure what my final weight will be, but I should be about 150 lbs. lighter than last time out, but it depends. My goal for total weight is around 2300, which still puts me more than 200 lbs. over your race weight! LOL

Well heres what my suspension consisted of last time out:
(no worries about asking questions that may have already been answered)

- JIC Coilovers
- Suspension Tech rear anti-sway bar
- no front anti-sway
- Energy front control arm bushings
- Noltec Mustache Brace bushings
- Noltec rear subframe bushings
- Prothane motor mount bushings, front stock with inserts
- Ingalls Rear Upper Adj. Arms
- DSS Toe-Eliminator Kit

That's it, however, much of that will be changed when the car goes back together.

1qkfwd · Jan 16, 2013

Phil1320 said:
Also, another goal I have set is to run a quicker 1/8 mile than Joe B. did on his 10.87, which is 6.99. Some may say that's useless, or stupid, however, I think bettering his 1/8 mile time is a more attainable goal, then the 1/4. I have my doubts that 14b power can run 10's in the AWD platform.

Well thats staying on the right track. I always try to gain as much as possible in the1/8. If you can better the 60' and make a little more power I think it should get you close to that 1/8 time of Joe's.

I wouldnt count out having the awd platform not hitting 10s. I really think that its possible. Just takes having the car very light and making the right power. For some that means making the sacrifice of keeping the car a street car or not.

Nate Crisman said:
My 1.46 was leaving at full power, the only way it would leave harder is more power/weight ratio. I don't think there was anything left in the setup/tune/suspension that would have dropped it to 1.39

Maybe with a 16g that would make more than 21psi on the converter. (Launch it at 30psi!!!!). Maybe if I could get 400lb more out?

With the clutch/stick trans you can always add more flywheel weight and rpm & drop the clutch faster provided the traction is there. It's an adjustable system unlike the automatic that has no realistic adjustment for launch rpm without modifying the converter.

I could see a hydraulic staging brake being usefull in a stick/14b car in order to come out at a lower engine rpm but higher boost level. More torque than +rpm/-boost and gives you more time to make the 1-2 shift.

I know when I had a 14b in my gvr4 on slicks, I had the launch rev limit at like 6800rpm and was trying to shift at 7000. Basically trying to hit the tires with as much inertia as possible, but it often lead to massive overrevs on first gear and missed 1-2 shifts.

I just cant see the 14b making enough torque to push the auto into a quicker 60' time. But I could be wrong. It is a possibilty with a auto fwd.

I plan to add a staging brake to my car so thats something I will have to try out.

Those rpms seem a little high. Must be a pretty heavy car to have to move out.

Phil1320 · Jan 16, 2013

Nate Crisman said:
My 1.46 was leaving at full power, the only way it would leave harder is more power/weight ratio. I don't think there was anything left in the setup/tune/suspension that would have dropped it to 1.39

Maybe with a 16g that would make more than 21psi on the converter. (Launch it at 30psi!!!!). Maybe if I could get 400lb more out?

With the clutch/stick trans you can always add more flywheel weight and rpm & drop the clutch faster provided the traction is there. It's an adjustable system unlike the automatic that has no realistic adjustment for launch rpm without modifying the converter.

I could see a hydraulic staging brake being usefull in a stick/14b car in order to come out at a lower engine rpm but higher boost level. More torque than +rpm/-boost and gives you more time to make the 1-2 shift.

I know when I had a 14b in my gvr4 on slicks, I had the launch rev limit at like 6800rpm and was trying to shift at 7000. Basically trying to hit the tires with as much inertia as possible, but it often lead to massive overrevs on first gear and missed 1-2 shifts.

Either way you are a whisper closer to 1.3X than I am.

I leave at 6000 rpm....

I looked into doing a staging brake, I passed. My car is multi-purpose focused, so I refuse to do any drag-only stuff that can't be bolted/unbolted in a reasonable amount of time. I do think it could help, but, I'll let someone else try that one out.

1qkfwd · Jan 16, 2013

Phil1320 said:
Nice, glad you see some room there.

Very true about knowing your own car. Not sure what my final weight will be, but I should be about 150 lbs. lighter than last time out, but it depends. My goal for total weight is around 2300, which still puts me more than 200 lbs. over your race weight!

Well heres what my suspension consisted of last time out:
(no worries about asking questions that may have already been answered)

- JIC Coilovers
- Suspension Tech rear anti-sway bar
- no front anti-sway
- Energy front control arm bushings
- Noltec Mustache Brace bushings
- Noltec rear subframe bushings
- Prothane motor mount bushings, front stock with inserts

That's it, however, much of that will be changed when the car goes back together.

The weight should help out so much. If it doesnt move the car out quicker, it will help out in the reliability department for the drivetrain thats for sure.

Are you not happy with that suspension setup. Looks pretty sound with the exception of toe elim kit, welded center diff, and rear alignment arms.

Bud92gsx · Jan 16, 2013

I'm not going back 115 pages..But whos auto awd/What are you guys using for staging..

A staging brake was just mentioned..The dynatek is a a big deal for the auto guys as far as launch control..I'm gonna try using a regular 2 step with my auto..Even tho I've been told not too..But I break the trans its a great time for a rebuild..

Phil1320 · Jan 16, 2013

ARFWD said:
Well thats staying on the right track. I always try to gain as much as possible in the1/8. If you can better the 60' and make a little more power I think it should get you close to that 1/8 time of Joe's.

I wouldnt count out having the awd platform not hitting 10s. I really think that its possible. Just takes having the car very light and making the right power. For some that means making the sacrifice of keeping the car a street car or not.

Well, the weight reduction alone should really help.

Not ruling out 10's in general, but maybe for me. I think running a 6.98 1/8 would net me 11.05 1/4 mile ET.

I don't think anything near a street car with 14b power can run 10's.

Of course that depends on what anyone's idea of street car is.

1qkfwd · Jan 16, 2013

Phil1320 said:
Of course that depends on what anyone's idea of street car is.

Radials, glass, a seat, working lights, and legal docs.

LandSpeed-DSM · Jan 16, 2013

Radio

Bud92gsx · Jan 16, 2013

Street legal,,what you have that the cops can't see.. LOL

Phil1320 · Jan 16, 2013

ARFWD said:
The weight should help out so much. If it doesnt move the car out quicker, it will help out in the reliability department for the drivetrain thats for sure.

Are you not happy with that suspension setup. Looks pretty sound with the exception of toe elim kit, welded center diff, and rear alignment arms.

No doubt.

Sorry, I left out:

- Ingalls rear upper adjustable arms

- DSS Toe-Eliminator Kit

Plenty happy with it for sure, here's the changes:

- removal of rear Suspension Tech anti-sway bar

- Bulfab Rear Mustache Brace

- Bulfab Solid Front Rollstop

- Bulfab Aluminum Rear Subframe Bushings

- Polk Tubular Front Control Arms

ARFWD said:
Radials, glass, a seat, working lights, and legal docs.

Right, and zero fun to drive around. Why I took mine off the road. And then there's claims of street car this and that. Not a chance.

1qkfwd · Jan 16, 2013

Phil1320 said:
No doubt.

Sorry, I left out:

- Ingalls rear upper adjustable arms

- DSS Toe-Eliminator Kit

Plenty happy with it for sure, here's the changes:

- removal of rear Suspension Tech anti-sway bar

- Bulfab Rear Mustache Brace

- Bulfab Solid Front Rollstop

- Bulfab Aluminum Rear Subframe Bushings

- Polk Tubular Front Control Arms

Right, and zero fun to drive around. Why I took mine off the road. And then there's claims of street car this and that. Not a chance.

So basically switching to stronger lighter stuff over what you have now. Any reason why you want to ditch the rear sway???

I know the street car/race car debate has been beaten to death. Just had to poke that out there.

LandSpeed-DSM said:
Radio

I-phone and a set of headphones hahaha.

Phil1320 · Jan 16, 2013

ARFWD said:
So basically switching to stronger lighter stuff over what you have now. Any reason why you want to ditch the rear sway???

WEIGHT

It used to be an integral part to help 60' times but as stiff as my car is with the JIC's, I don't think it's necessary.

Now, if in fact 60' times were to suffer, I'd obviously toss it back on. It's a super heavy, solid bar.
Almost 30 lbs. if I remember correctly.

Also, the front roll stop should aid in 60' and is one of my main reasons for thinking I can improve on my 1.48 and head toward 1.30's.

1SloEvo · Jan 16, 2013

Got my slicks and wheels in the mail today! Weld draglites, size 13x8 with M&H 24.5x8.5 slicks. 22lb per wheel and tire!!!!

Too bad it's still 3-4 months before the car will be anywhere near ready to hit the track.

But each day gets a little more done!

Phil1320 · Jan 17, 2013

SO FVck the Haters. they are all running around swinging off the balls of others who have done the same exact thing. Not me, I dont follow footsteps I LEAD my own path and make my own path. SO first off I would like to thank a couple of my sponsors! Drew Jones at RCI and Red Jack Racing. Precision PSI, Stroud, SW Racecars and Kirkey Racing. Shyts getting real in here. We are talking a perfectly setup 1g ready to rip that 14b to shreds. In a 2000 LB car! Let the flaming begin blah blah blah. But I am taking my 1g 14b into the 10's and making a record NOBODY with an AWD will break for a very long time. Anyways here are some updates on the car that has been laughed at for the past few months.

^^^^^^^^^^
Here's what one of our fellow 14b contenders(well, maybe) has to say. Wonder who he's referring to? Hmmm...

His 'sponsors' should be proud...

Thoughts ?

SBstar · Jan 17, 2013

So much for not cutting any sheetmetal, structural integrity blah blah blah, street car, blah blah. So in the end, he actually took our advice about being lighter. I'm kind of flattered

Phil1320 · Jan 17, 2013

1SloEvo said:
Got my slicks and wheels in the mail today! Weld draglites, size 13x8 with M&H 24.5x8.5 slicks. 22lb per wheel and tire!!!!

Too bad it's still 3-4 months before the car will be anywhere near ready to hit the track. But each day gets a little more done!

Congrats, that's a superlight combo!

SBstar said:
So much for not cutting any sheetmetal, structural integrity blah blah blah, street car, blah blah. So in the end, he actually took our advice about being lighter. I'm kind of flattered

I'm totally tickled myself! But he's a leader, NOT a follower, remember that!

Nate Crisman · Jan 17, 2013

Pronouncement of "should/would" record breaking in advance almost never turn out.

The Top DSM Community on the Web

The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

Phil1320

1qkfwd

Phil1320

1qkfwd

Phil1320

1qkfwd

Phil1320

Nate Crisman

Phil1320

1qkfwd

Phil1320

1qkfwd

Bud92gsx

Phil1320

1qkfwd

LandSpeed-DSM

Bud92gsx

Phil1320

1qkfwd

Phil1320

1SloEvo

Phil1320

SBstar

Phil1320

Nate Crisman

Similar threads

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds