pneumo said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that!
I was running 52psi base pressure on the stock 450's with a rewired Walbro and C16. I remember when inj DC transitioned over 100% the car would give out a little cough/sputter then run cleanly above 100% DC.

Phil, I can look up the timing in the chip I made for you. IIRC I left the timing stock up to 6k rpm where the stock map peaks, then I added one degree for every 500 rpm. So 6k was 24*, 6500 was 25*, 7k was 26*. I think you said you were using the CAS to fine tune it?

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Yep, that sounds right. Yeah, I had base timing set at 10° BTDC.

Phil1320 said:

12.02@112

stock engine
stock ecu-non eprom
stock injectors
stock FPR
no fuel pump rewire
walbro 255 low pressure
21 psi
266 awhp, 282 lb.-ft.

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If the car that did that was that stock thats awsome..

I'll have only stock engine from that list,and 450s

Bud92gsx said:

If the car that did that was that stock thats awsome..

I'll have only stock engine from that list,and 450s

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Yes it was...thanks....I had the luxury of buying it from the original owner in bone stock trim. The car ran very well, and I never had one issue.

Phil1320 said:

Yes it was...thanks....I had the luxury of buying it from the original owner in bone stock trim. The car ran very well, and I never had one issue.

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Wish we could all be that lucky

hey phill don't forget it was also on stock 1g maf.and hey buddy

Phil1320 said:

Yep, that sounds right. Yeah, I had base timing set at 10° BTDC.

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So this puts your overall timing pretty high. And here I sit thinking I need to only fine tune my car. I have a lot of fuel and timing changes to play with. Im gonna look over my logs tonight and see where I sit for timing numbers.

When we ran 11.3 with my buddies 2950lb 16g car, I just tuned like it was an N/A car to compensate for the loss of boost in the upper rpms.

MJcanada said:

Wish we could all be that lucky

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It was definitely a plus for sure. I have full record of all the steps it took from my best stock run of 14.85 all the way down to 11.49.

If you always look, you may be able to find some box stock dsm's around. I found an unmolested 90 Laser RST a few years back, but the owner was unrealistic with his price, and didn't budge one penny after I made two aggressive offers.

Most of the box stock dsm's I find are AT, and that's something that just doesn't interest me.

fastrst said:

hey phill don't forget it was also on stock 1g maf.and hey buddy

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Hey! Good call! This is true, stock MAF, aircan & rubber inlet tube...

ARFWD said:

So this puts your overall timing pretty high. And here I sit thinking I need to only fine tune my car. I have a lot of fuel and timing changes to play with. Im gonna look over my logs tonight and see where I sit for timing numbers.

When we ran 11.3 with my buddies 2950lb 16g car, I just tuned like it was an N/A car to compensate for the loss of boost in the upper rpms.

Click to expand...

Yes. Let's see.......back when I was at 12.49@107, another quick 14b guy at the time(Greg Horn 12.40@110) asked where my timing was set. I had never even checked it. Upon checking it, for whatever reason, it was 10° ATDC! So, we bumped it a full 20°! Pretty sure I added an 02 dump at that time as well, went back to the track and pulled 12.29@110 with no other changes.

fastrst said:

hey phill don't forget it was also on stock 1g maf.and hey buddy

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1g maf, so played out even 1g's dont have them anymore..

Bud92gsx said:

1g maf, so played out even 1g's dont have them anymore..

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Sure, but back in the day, it was good enough to blow the doors of SEVERAL HKS VPC speed density cars with 16g & 20g turbos....

On a current note, I've been speaking to an engine builder about doing an engine up a little. Before anyone asks, he is experienced with the 4G63. I told him I have some parts gathered. He wanted the cam specs, so I gave them to him. Upon review, he really feels that there will be little, if any gain by using the FP1x one-offs that I have. Not to mention the added stress on the drivetrain because of the aggressive ramp. So, thought I had a cam decision made, now, I guess I don't. So, at this point, it's possible that I may just have the head checked, and toss it back together. January is here, no time like the present if I want to hit the track this year.

Honestly, even if I don't improve on the 11.49, I just want some seat time this year...

I believe with some seat time and added tunability via V3, you should still be able to pick up a little extra power to give yourself the chance to run a little quicker than your PB. IMO.

There is always a little chunk of ET left just to luck as well, and you can snag that chunk by going to the track more often. It's that magic combo day of sun on the track with ideal VHT stickiness + cool air temps + tailwind + perfect driving + perfect tune + shallowest stage + least fuel weight on the last pass before running out of fuel.

You can't control most of those factors, so I chalk it up to the luck of the draw. When you only make 7 runs a year on two track visits, your chances of the stars lining up perfectly are slim. Go every weekend and make 175 passes a season and the odds go up that at least one of those track days will be ideal conditions for record setting, and that's where all the practice counts!

Phil1320 said:

Sure, but back in the day, it was good enough to blow the doors of SEVERAL HKS VPC speed density cars with 16g & 20g turbos....

On a current note, I've been speaking to an engine builder about doing an engine up a little. Before anyone asks, he is experienced with the 4G63. I told him I have some parts gathered. He wanted the cam specs, so I gave them to him. Upon review, he really feels that there will be little, if any gain by using the FP1x one-offs that I have. Not to mention the added stress on the drivetrain because of the aggressive ramp. So, thought I had a cam decision made, now, I guess I don't. So, at this point, it's possible that I may just have the head checked, and toss it back together. January is here, no time like the present if I want to hit the track this year.

Honestly, even if I don't improve on the 11.49, I just want some seat time this year...

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Really hes saying the fp1s may be too much..Thats strange..I'm looking for a s1,fp1,264 type cam as well..Just to give a tad more umphhh on stock springs and retainers.

I just don't see how the fp1 cams are to aggressive for what your doin. Joe B ran them to the low 11s at 120 before returning them and switching to the crower 413s, which is what I'm running. I think just the 14b alone in full street trim, ya the stock cams are fine.

I'll be going to stock 5 speed cams.But thats the only thing I have that a solid gonna happen..But I want more cam than that..


Maybe I should have someone throw together a 6 bolt block with 2g pistons and call it a day.

1SloEvo said:

I believe with some seat time and added tunability via V3, you should still be able to pick up a little extra power to give yourself the chance to run a little quicker than your PB. IMO.

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One would speculate

Let's hope!

Nate Crisman said:

There is always a little chunk of ET left just to luck as well, and you can snag that chunk by going to the track more often. It's that magic combo day of sun on the track with ideal VHT stickiness + cool air temps + tailwind + perfect driving + perfect tune + shallowest stage + least fuel weight on the last pass before running out of fuel.

You can't control most of those factors, so I chalk it up to the luck of the draw. When you only make 7 runs a year on two track visits, your chances of the stars lining up perfectly are slim. Go every weekend and make 175 passes a season and the odds go up that at least one of those track days will be ideal conditions for record setting, and that's where all the practice counts!

Click to expand...

Without a doubt there are better days than others...

I wish I could make 175 passes a season!

Bud92gsx said:

Really hes saying the fp1s may be too much..Thats strange..I'm looking for a s1,fp1,264 type cam as well..Just to give a tad more umphhh on stock springs and retainers.

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Incorrect.

ARFWD said:

I just don't see how the fp1 cams are to aggressive for what your doin. Joe B ran them to the low 11s at 120 before returning them and switching to the crower 413s, which is what I'm running. I think just the 14b alone in full street trim, ya the stock cams are fine.

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Again, these ARE NOT the off the shelf FP1X cams that you can buy from FP. They are ONE-OFFs, as in the only set. They were designed with the mid range hit of the 14b in mind. It's the increased ramp speed the makes upgrade valve springs necessary. However, the engine builder stated, ''that they are not much better than stock cams,'' and at the same time are adding a significant amount of stress to te associated parts. So, I'm gonna believe what he's telling me and stick with the stockers, or possibly just do the basic 264\272 combo or something along those lines.

Wait a minute Phil correct me if I'm wrong but your still on the stock 90 cam's right? I remember having a brief discussion with you at the track and mentioning that 90 cams were the worse off all 1g's (you agreed) and suggested that you try some 93 5 speed cams cause they were a bit more aggressive. I know in my old 16g powered 90 it made a pretty big difference upgrading the cams (web street grinds). With the stock 90 cams the car kinda fell on its face around 5k rpm's.

DJ23GSX said:

Wait a minute Phil correct me if I'm wrong but your still on the stock 90 cam's right? I remember having a brief discussion with you at the track and mentioning that 90 cams were the worse off all 1g's (you agreed) and suggested that you try some 93 5 speed cams cause they were a bit more aggressive. I know in my old 16g powered 90 it made a pretty big difference upgrading the cams (web street grinds). With the stock 90 cams the car kinda fell on its face around 5k rpm's.

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Yep, correct. And, I do remember that convo. Yeah 90 stockers definitely can be replaced with something that will make better power. And as we've seen with others here, big cams work with the 14b...

wWhats the deal with 90 cams..Are they like auto cams?

I thought the '90 manual cams were the most aggressive 1g cams, no?

--1990-1992 turbo 5speed cams: 244 ex, 252 in
--1990-1994 turbo auto: 244 ex, 244 in
--1990-1994 n/t: 244 ex, 252 in; intake cam is advanced about 5 degrees vs. the 1990-1992 turbo 5speed, 1993-1994 turbo manual and 1995-1999
--1993-1994turbo 5pseed: 252 ex, 252 in; the intake cams have .05ish more total lift than all the other intake cams but the exhaust cam has the same lift as 1995-1999 cams
--1995-1999 all trannies: 252 ex, 252 in; same peak lift on both sides as 1990-1992 turbo 5speed, and all auto & n/t cams

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/376569-1g-cams-2g.html#post152269850

My 5 speed cams that are goin on in the spring must be the 93-94 5 speed cause they measured the same..

ARFWD said:

Well according to a simple hp calculator based on weight and trap speeds, you and I are making the same power. You at 2450 with 116 and me at 2105 at 121.5

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I just read this again....this can't be right man.

If your engine, with higher comp, no balance shafts, and Crower 413 cams, isn't making more power than my original 86,000 mile, bone stock, with balance shafts, engine....something must be wrong with one of two things, or both:

1. your set-up/tune

2. the HP calculator


?

Just curious how many of you are running the 14b without the water lines? I'm debating on just blocking all of mine off and just giving the car plenty of cool down time before shutting her down after each run. I just wanted to get some input from some of you that are actually pushing the turbo at it's limits before I decided.

I haven't run water lines on a TD05H based turbo in as long as I can remember, haven't had any fail yet.

Thanks Steve!