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mod choice critique, hoping to go e85

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EisHERE

Proven Member
188
0
Nov 13, 2012
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Well, next week I'll have about $2,500 to drop on my talon. So I've come up with a list of things I want to do with it. Please give me your input and tell me if I need other things for e85. Going to try and get most things second hand to save money. thanks guys.

DSMlink lite/do I need full for e85?
1650cc injectors
20g w/ anti surge housing with tial 40mm WG - $450
New DP - $100
SMIM? - $400
Wally 255/rewire kit with afpr - apprx. $200
good fuel filter, any ideas/links?
and a professional tune in the cities, unsure of which tuner. probably going to run $300

All I have for now, thinking maybe some used coilovers or something? Let me know what you guys think.
 
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1000cc injectors can work fine. Depends on how far you want to push that 20g. Also you should add a rewire to that 255. You also should use a fuel filter with a stainless steel element. V3 lite will be fine. You will definitely need the afpr. You will also need a solution to monitor airflow that isn't a 1g maf. Sd or gmmaf. I would recommend the sd.
 
Upgrade to a good stainless steel fuel filter or at least change your fuel filter. It is a good idea to go with a better fuel feed line and fitting after the filter too.
 
I'd like to push the 20g pretty hard. I also have cams on my list, unsure of what to get though. thinking maybe just 264's. Also, I do have a gm maf-maf-t, and thanks for pointing out the rewire I would've forgotten that ;) I'll update the first post with that. also if you know of a good place to get better feed lines post up a link, thanks guys! If I have enough left over I'm going for a jacks transmission rebuild for stage 1
 
My friend runs a bigger version of the 20g with 880cc injectors and is fine. We both run e85 stock filter and fuel lines you will be fine. Your setup is more then enough.
 
If you keep it under 26/27psi on those injectors and run 4 bar (43.5) base fuel pressure those injectors will be fine. I'm not pulling this out of my ass. It's real world experience. Would it be nice to have a little more headroom in the injectors? Yes. Should you get rid of those if you already have them and/or the budget is tight? No.
 
Go bigger on the injectors. 1650cc or bigger. It covers you in the future so youre not like most of us: buying parts twice.
 
my friend runs burned chips from my1gdsm works grear tune program don't matter as long as you can change tuning fuel air flow etc they all work fine just more people prefere ecmlink.
 
Thanks for the great replies guys! I will definitely take that into consideration, it doesn't make sense to buy injectors twice :p so go big or go home I guess. I already have a custom burned chip right now, I'd like to be able to tune on the fly. Plus dsmlink seems to be one of the most easy to work with compared to others, such as stand alones. I don't have injectors purchased yet either so it's no problem. thanks again!
 
Injectors can be resold, and they are not hard to change out. 1050's would be fine with that turbo and 25-28psi but you would have to go above 80% duty cycle. 1200s might be a better compromise.

I would get an evo3/RVR intake manifold instead of an SMIM as well. They can be resold for the same price you get them, and it is less than half the price of the SMIM used.

And the cheapest way into a 20g is to buy an anti-surge cover with compressor wheel from ebay for $150. There's a guy selling $100 billet 20g wheels as well. This will drop right into your big16g.

This is all what I am doing to my car.
 
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OEM filter is 1/4 the cost of the fuelab listed above. Just saying, you stated you wanted to save money and I am currently running stock fuel lines and stock filter on e85 with a walbro 450lph and 30psi on a 3065, and a friend of mine running a holset he351 variation at 30+psi on stock lines and filter with e85 for 3yrs now with no issues.

Also not sure how much an Evo 3/RVR IM is going to help you on a big port head which I am guessing you have right now, unless you did a 2g head swap.
 
OEM filter is 1/4 the cost of the fuelab listed above. Just saying, you stated you wanted to save money and I am currently running stock fuel lines and stock filter on e85 with a walbro 450lph and 30psi on a 3065, and a friend of mine running a holset he351 variation at 30+psi on stock lines and filter with e85 for 3yrs now with no issues.

Also not sure how much an Evo 3/RVR IM is going to help you on a big port head which I am guessing you have right now, unless you did a 2g head swap.

I forgot about that, I have a 2g head. ported and polished. but, today I've found this problem. there was white in one of the manifold tubes to the turbo? manifold cracked and took it off to weld it. ummm blown hg? or bad turbo? is an ebay turbo... that happened within 10 mins of driving.
 
DSMLink V3 lite will work for E85. I'm currently running my 1150's with Lite.

You don't necessarily need a SS filter upgrade, it's just recommended. I was also running E85 with stock lines and filter for about 6 months with no issues. The SS filters also aren't a drop in replacement, they are meant to work with AN fittings found on aftermarket fuel lines.

1150cc would work just fine (max out around 65 lbs/min on E85), but 1600 would be safer. However, the option of pump gas with the 1600's is pretty much out the door.

SMIM isn't necessary either. Evo 3/RVR manifold would help, but it's not like the stock 2g manifold is going to be seriously holding you back at this point. If anything, install a 1g NT throttle body on the 2g manifold.

One thing I did not see on your list is cams. A set of 272's would really help the engine breathe in the higher RPM's. It's highly recommended that also install better valve springs, but not completely necessary for some 272's (such as HKS/DKS).

Lastly, I strongly encourage you to lean to tune the car yourself with Link. Pro tunes around here cost $400, which is more than I payed for Link. I'm one of the most technologically handicapped people in the world, and within a few weeks I was succesfully tuning on my own. I've changed my tune so many times I would have probably payed a shop more than my car is even worth.
 
If you keep it under 26/27psi on those injectors and run 4 bar (43.5) base fuel pressure those injectors will be fine. I'm not pulling this out of my ass. It's real world experience. Would it be nice to have a little more headroom in the injectors? Yes. Should you get rid of those if you already have them and/or the budget is tight? No.

last time i checked, 43.5psi is 3 bar. plan, seems pretty solid. bigger injectors wont be a deficit on e85. considering a standard of 35-40% more fuel, 1650's would be right in there for a 35-40#min turbo.

crush that stuff:thumb:
 
seems pretty solid. bigger injectors wont be a deficit on e85. considering a standard of 35-40% more fuel, 1650's would be right in there for a 35-40#min turbo.

1600cc fuel injectors are enough for a 70-80 lb/min turbo on E85. 1150's can support 50-60 lb/min. Since the 20g only flows a bit more than 40 lb/min, 1150's are more than capable of doing the job. Here's two great resources on airflow support:

baseinjectordata [ECMTuning - wiki]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/366003-injector-fuel-pump-supported-airflow.html

And yes, those are just crunched numbers, but there is plenty of real world experience to back it up. I was personally flowing over 30 lbs/min on E85 with my old beat up FIC 1150's and they were nowhere close to maxed out (IIRC less than 60% IDC).
 
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Well, next week I'll have about $2,500 to drop on my talon. So I've come up with a list of things I want to do with it. Please give me your input and tell me if I need other things for e85. Going to try and get most things second hand to save money. thanks guys.

DSMlink lite/do I need full for e85?
1650cc injectors
20g w/ anti surge housing with tial 40mm WG - $450
New DP - $100
SMIM? - $400
Wally 255/rewire kit with afpr - apprx. $200
good fuel filter, any ideas/links?
and a professional tune in the cities, unsure of which tuner. probably going to run $300

All I have for now, thinking maybe some used coilovers or something? Let me know what you guys think.

Elshere, what do you want to do with the car long term? Drag Race, Road Course/Autocross, Passenger Seat Bra Disintegrator? Knowing that will help you determine the best next steps to take for your upgrades. I noticed you mentioned coilovers as a brief maybe at the end, but if your suspension is too loose, you won't really get the full benefit of that Monster 20G. "Brace It Before You Race It" Even inexpensive KYB AGX's with Enkei Pro Kit Springs, Eurethane Sway Bar Bushings and maybe Front and Rear Strut Bars will give you a very noticeable increase in handling and at the same time help you get more of that new power to the street. In fact, the right engine mounts can help reduce twist in your power train and may help your transmission last longer.

With that said, you also asked about fuel setups...

Here's a link explaining the Stevetek Fuel System and how to "make your own" if you're feeling handy.

SteveTek Labs Research: High Flow Fuel Delivery System

I've recently seen a link to someone selling the whole setup already built with everything you need to simply install it - including AFPR and under hood Fuel Pressure Gauge. I can't seem to find it right now though. If I come up with it soon, I'll post it.
The kit provides bigger lines and helps you get the most out of whatever pump/injector setup you decide to go with. Ever try to pull a thick milkshake through a tiny straw? Getting bigger fuel lines is like getting a bigger "straw".

All depends on what you want your DSM to be... Good Luck! :hellyeah:
 
I would go with fic 1050 or 1150. Bigger blue max have more latency issues to figure out and are overkill for a 20g. I don't care what anyone tells you if the same guy tunes a car on 1150s and a larger set of blue max, the 1150 car is going to run and drive better every time. This is from my firsthand experience.

I do not have experience with the following info, but I believe it. Supposedly 1000 and 950 injectors are modified smaller units. They supposedly don't flow quite their potential and have more inconsistency from injector to injector.

With the ethanol and 1150 you'll have more than enough to max ## 20g and I'll have an awesome car. 350-400 hp in a street dsm is a blast and more than enough power. Even the guys with 700hp will tell u that. The only people who will tell u that isn't enough power are the guys who have never had that much power.
 
Never seen a thread recommend going with the minimums when it comes to injectors. Look around and most people end up wanting more power. That means? Bingo, you gotta buy an even bigger set of injectors. Why not do it big the first time? You can run 2150ccs with a t25 if you have link. I dont get it. I still say overdo the inj size, yur wallet will thank you when you get tired of the 20 g and move up.
 
Never seen a thread recommend going with the minimums when it comes to injectors. Look around and most people end up wanting more power. That means? Bingo, you gotta buy an even bigger set of injectors. Why not do it big the first time? You can run 2150ccs with a t25 if you have link. I dont get it. I still say overdo the inj size, yur wallet will thank you when you get tired of the 20 g and move up.

Because someone with a little experience can get the 2150 to run good,but they could have the 1150 car running better than an oem tune. Cars with 1650 injectors don't run better than stock cars while getting 25mpg. To me it's the same thing as saying why not buy a 86mm turbo off the bat. You'll just want more power.
 
Because someone with a little experience can get the 2150 to run good,but they could have the 1150 car running better than an oem tune. Cars with 1650 injectors don't run better than stock cars while getting 25mpg. To me it's the same thing as saying why not buy a 86mm turbo off the bat. You'll just want more power.

I agree with that, but whatever, it's kind of like people saying well, you wanna do one mod? might as well fully build it because you're just going to want more power. I'd just want enough to max the 20g because I know that it wouldn't be upgraded from there, probably ever.
 
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