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Where are the FWDs at????

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Almost ready for the dyno -

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Now just waiting on gauges and then time to pick my wheel/tire combo for the half-mile event in June and the Ohio Mile after that.. anyone have any experience with the Pirelli Cinturatos?
 
Gauges arrived, these things are sharp and brilliant modular wiring. Would Recommend ISSPro to anyone looking for gauges and I have a contact for them if interested:
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Diving in head first we grabbed a bunch of the DOT Push to Lock hardware, will report back on experience after install and again after running them, seems promising:
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I have never really fond of push to lock fitting. I have heard to many horror stories from the hose coming off the fittings. Hope those do better.
 
Well these are the DOT fittings used on Semi-Truck air brakes.

Not the plastic Vibrant ones with crappy hose.

So I am optimistic at this point haha

Installing Gauges
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180* Shield finished, provisioned for a full 360* when required by certain sanctioning bodies
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Waiting on one more gauge (ignore the silver bezel pyro), not the final order they will be in but basically how the console will look when done and then the wideband will be under the switch panel next to the turbo timer and electronic boost controller
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It's not a problem with the car or the gearing, it's simply what the owner intends to do with the car. My friend had a GS-T that he built as more of a top end performer and ran 11.7 with slicks. I personally was looking for a GS-T over a GSX for a few reasons that I won't get into here, but if I had the intent of making over 300whp and/or drag racing regularly at some point with the vehicle, you bet I'd get a GSX. AWD's are so more efficient at putting power to the ground when it comes to traction...it's just a no brainer that you'd want an AWD over a FWD (with no factory LSD option) if you intend on drag racing it. Comes down to what the owner's intent for the vehicle is.
 
The drive pressure sensor is being connected to a 16" length of 3/16 copper tube that is tapped into the manifold.

Which feed are you referring to? Logging the sensor?
 
now at 2800lbs with driver still 90% interior and stock body....

Running mid 14s.

Ruined my TT setup...sticking with n/a now unless motor goes bye bye... Then 4g63T 20G build.... For now holding out for 250whp with cams and some new mods yet to come to the 3/s community.

Loving my fwd...
 
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So glad to see this thread staing so active.

I would like to add a word about the FWD Vs. AWD debate from what i would consider the best way to experience and judge both, and that's owning the same car (2Gb) for 13 years and hving converted it from an insane FWD To a pretty damn mean AWD

FWD is definitely a lot less hel back by the drag in the drivetrain (just try pushing the same car even in neutral in and out of the garage once LOL)

AWD is more fun in 1st and 2nd gear where a FWD over 400hp just isn't gonna do anything other than wasting the tires as soon as the power comes on. but in third gear where a FWD of this power is rather insane (i mean down right scry on the streets) yet becomes calm and mainly manageable when converted to AWD (there's nothing like 90+ mph with the front wheels both spinning from the quaife diff eping it from a one wheel wonder, turning left while drifting to the right trying to keep it outof the ditch... AWD just gets' too manageable)

Now, my car will go places it never even thought about before in snow which is an entirely new set of fun adventures (snow drifting, passing trucks that are barely moving and looking at you like "WTF it that magic or voodoo?"

but overall for my budget (whifch is now very low) getting the AWD conversion done for parts trades and with stuff i'd collected over the years, at this point is somthing i would have to say is a necessary conversion for anything other than a dedicated race car when you get in the 475+hp range.

I've seen from my 70-90 and other similar time vs soeed range benchmarks that the AWD gives up som juice in the top end where the FWD just keeos pulling but this is the areas where things come down to drag (both aero and parastitic) and all the other fine tuning that becomes the necessary work at a given HP/ ET level

I'll always have my love of the high pwered FWD car that my mitsu started as, but i have no regrets about going AWD with it either. I think once one is truely experienced in high HP DSM's it comes down to factors other than AWD or FWD and is mainly based on the love of a given platform over other things.

keep the pics and info coming from the FWD scene, in the DSM world this is something that gets far too little attention, yet should be highlighted way more since there's so much more prep, tuning and setup work that goes into making one ET as good as the common "crutch" of AWD
 
I say everyone should have one of each ( rwd,fwd n awd)...hahaha

My fwd got a 3" DP n 225/45/17 Hoosiers for the next race on jan 13th 12's on a t28 here I come .
 
IM a DSM guy. most of my knowledge/experience is with DSM... I don't have one currently but I do have a FWD 3000GT that I love. It's n+a and as fast as ## average healthy BPU DSM. I do not mind the fwd a bit. Stock wheels r 17x8.5 and car hooks beautifully on the rare occasion I launch it..
 
I say everyone should have one of each ( rwd,fwd n awd)...hahaha

My fwd got a 3" DP n 225/45/17 Hoosiers for the next race on jan 13th 12's on a t28 here I come .

I agree they all have their places, advantages and down falls,.

Anyone who says a FWD can't be as fast as an AWD clearly hasn't looked beyond their own neighborhood for results to base that opinion on.. I think a great example of this is the FWD built by RichardB (or something close to that) on here and having it as a2g FWD in the 10's for less than most poeple spend to get teir AWD's in the same 10's range as well as joe bucci and many other's who've went crazy fast on very little money in a FWD

either way you look at it, lack of traction is simply too much horsepower for a given car;s setup and it's tires. If the only way you know to get traction is to go AWD, then you won't be much faster with 6 wheel drive and would probably do just as good with less power and more practice. I mean when you see videos of a 200hp civic outrunning a 400hp corvette through the first few gears (saw one last night on yourtube) it's not because the civic is over 400hp and putting down power to more of the wheels, .. driver modification is usually just as if not more effective way of beingthe faster of the two cars up until a certain point, at which time you've already learned that AWD just doesn't automatically mean "superior"

Now i will say that FWD is more challenging but tat's what i apreciate about it having owned one for so long... amazing what a simple diff will do, then how much it feels like you never upgraded that diff once you've added another hundred horses
 
I agree they all have their places, advantages and down falls,.

Anyone who says a FWD can't be as fast as an AWD clearly hasn't looked beyond their own neighborhood for results to base that opinion on.. I think a great example of this is the FWD built by RichardB (or something close to that) on here and having it as a2g FWD in the 10's for less than most poeple spend to get teir AWD's in the same 10's range as well as joe bucci and many other's who've went crazy fast on very little money in a FWD

either way you look at it, lack of traction is simply too much horsepower for a given car;s setup and it's tires. If the only way you know to get traction is to go AWD, then you won't be much faster with 6 wheel drive and would probably do just as good with less power and more practice. I mean when you see videos of a 200hp civic outrunning a 400hp corvette through the first few gears (saw one last night on yourtube) it's not because the civic is over 400hp and putting down power to more of the wheels, .. driver modification is usually just as if not more effective way of beingthe faster of the two cars up until a certain point, at which time you've already learned that AWD just doesn't automatically mean "superior"

Now i will say that FWD is more challenging but tat's what i apreciate about it having owned one for so long... amazing what a simple diff will do, then how much it feels like you never upgraded that diff once you've added another hundred horses

I have quite a bit of money into my car if you are talking about me LOL. If my car were AWD it would be a pretty solid 9 sec car. I have to take about 180whp out pretty much through the 1/8 mile to get it to hook. It's fun though hopefully with my new wheel/tire setup I can throw some more boost at it earlier but I guess we will see. I had to get extended studs so I'm waiting to get those in and then I'll finally be ready.
 
I have quite a bit of money into my car if you are talking about me LOL. If my car were AWD it would be a pretty solid 9 sec car. I have to take about 180whp out pretty much through the 1/8 mile to get it to hook. It's fun though hopefully with my new wheel/tire setup I can throw some more boost at it earlier but I guess we will see. I had to get extended studs so I'm waiting to get those in and then I'll finally be ready.

speak of the devil, LOL And i assume like most of us making decent power overall you've got a lot of money invested, i guess what i meant is taking what you know now and starting over you could go the same 10's with less than what the average person with more money than know how spends when they buy an AWD-super-superior machine and dump another 15k into it and still aren't faster than 12.0 - 11.9.. maybe it's somethig i see becayse of omaha being a town of spoiled rich kids, but there's cars up here with so much money in them that aren't even 12 second cars that you have to wonder what was done wrong or why thy aren't driving the car properly then you'll see the guy like many i know that have many years of knowledge and can start a build with a tight budget and go really fast/quick.

your car does seem very simple from the aspect of some one who probably had just as much spent overall, but had less track time and experience, which means although i knew how to make power i didn't have the know how to put it in the 10's and probably couldn't have even with another 5-7k to throw at it..only time would have gotten me there becayse the power was already in excess of what was needed... now i'm AWD so i will never know, but actual dollars spent being different than what i'm talking abnout as far as "dollars spent to build current setup from a fresh start with only the car as a given aspect" blah, meds are clouding my head, so i can type but can't think now LOL, anyway, was just giving you some respect for building a FWD i admire and wish i coulda put my FWD in the sam bracket although having most of the same/similar parts..no matter what keep it up man, and yea, how did i change a B for a 33 LOL

wht i really respect and admire is that you did this on the budget of a working man, not daddy funded my race car. To me there's a HUGE difference btween the "privateer" and some one who's "full ride sponsored" by daddy or a huge company, i'll always give the privateer more respect even if he is not as fast
 
speak of the devil, LOL And i assume like most of us making decent power overall you've got a lot of money invested, i guess what i meant is taking what you know now and starting over you could go the same 10's with less than what the average person with more money than know how spends when they buy an AWD-super-superior machine and dump another 15k into it and still aren't faster than 12.0 - 11.9.. maybe it's somethig i see becayse of omaha being a town of spoiled rich kids, but there's cars up here with so much money in them that aren't even 12 second cars that you have to wonder what was done wrong or why thy aren't driving the car properly then you'll see the guy like many i know that have many years of knowledge and can start a build with a tight budget and go really fast/quick.

your car does seem very simple from the aspect of some one who probably had just as much spent overall, but had less track time and experience, which means although i knew how to make power i didn't have the know how to put it in the 10's and probably couldn't have even with another 5-7k to throw at it..only time would have gotten me there becayse the power was already in excess of what was needed... now i'm AWD so i will never know, but actual dollars spent being different than what i'm talking abnout as far as "dollars spent to build current setup from a fresh start with only the car as a given aspect" blah, meds are clouding my head, so i can type but can't think now LOL, anyway, was just giving you some respect for building a FWD i admire and wish i coulda put my FWD in the sam bracket although having most of the same/similar parts..no matter what keep it up man, and yea, how did i change a B for a 33 LOL

wht i really respect and admire is that you did this on the budget of a working man, not daddy funded my race car. To me there's a HUGE difference btween the "privateer" and some one who's "full ride sponsored" by daddy or a huge company, i'll always give the privateer more respect even if he is not as fast

Thanks Glen I appreciate it. For sure if I had to do it again it would be easy to put together a cheap setup to run 10s. Most of the money was in changing setups but at least now I have first hand knowledge about a 16g pump gas setup, 16g e85 set up, hx35 with the stock backhousing setup with cheap parts, hx40 setup with nice parts, Dsmlink, AEM, manual, automatic, nitrous, suspension, and so on.

I do this for fun and having a FWD may not go as fast as an AWD but it's part of the challenge which is fun for me.
 
Brief update, lots of stuff I have yet to shoot a picture of..

Last big picture shot I took last week:
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More core support mods to accomodate the big head-light replacing scoop intake pipe:
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All 3 meth nozzles arrived today.. 2x 2GPH and 1x 10GPH:
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Big nozzle installed up by the throttle body:
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Other two are going immediately in front of and after the turbo

EGT sensors, Oxygen Sensors and Turbine Drive Pressure sensors all welded in and wired up!
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Edit: Why does it keep trying to double post?
 
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Just curious as to why you put all that weight in the back of the car. Isnt that doing more harm than good in the traction department?? I know Im at the point that im moving as much weight off the back and putting it in front of the tires. Like the next thing will be the battery.
 
This is primarily a LSR car that will be T&T'd on standing mile and quarter tracks.

More weight lends some stability on the big end, and I am trying to better balance distribution, as well as the center of pressure vs center of mass relationship.

Driver (Me) is 305lbs LOL

This thing won't ET or 60' it's way into any record books, but it should run out the backdoor to MPH like a m*ther*cker LOL
 
Yeah...with a turbo that big that thing with have some killer topend. However I think keeping more weight on the front will help get out of the hole and at least be able to cut some decent 60' times.
 
This is primarily a LSR car that will be T&T'd on standing mile and quarter tracks.

More weight lends some stability on the big end, and I am trying to better balance distribution, as well as the center of pressure vs center of mass relationship.

Driver (Me) is 305lbs LOL

This thing won't ET or 60' it's way into any record books, but it should run out the backdoor to MPH like a m*ther*cker LOL

What speed/ gear does it hook up?
 
Just curious as to why you put all that weight in the back of the car.

He's got the fuel cell mounted up front :hmm:


And landspeed those gauges/whole setup is looking AWESOME. Did you put the backpressure sensor in one of the manifold runners or down in the collector or what? I've always wanted to mount one in a 3" exhaust and see if there actually are gains to going bigger (for someone with 500hp or less)

Also wondering what the meth spray process will be? Will they all fire at the same time or at different boost levels? This is the first time I've seen someone set it up being pre-turbo, pre-intercooler, and at the TB. Is this "common" or are you just doing some experimenting?
 
Yeah...with a turbo that big that thing with have some killer topend. However I think keeping more weight on the front will help get out of the hole and at least be able to cut some decent 60' times.

Well, there's a lot of hardware up front which should accomplish that! 3" piping, 3 gal surge tank, scatter shield, full-size rad, the magnafuel pump alone weighs almost 5lbs LOL 4.x" FMIC etc

LSD will help, but this car won't have slicks on it. Just a 140 treadwear tire at best.

Most of the problems/shortfalls I suspect will be between the seat and the steering wheel for a while!

What speed/ gear does it hook up?

Last time I ran the car it was on a 59mm T4, open diff, sloppy motor mounts/bushings, no boost control solenoid and ratty all seasons.. so hooked in third around 75 if it was cold LOL

This time the car has solid mounts/bushings, Hankook RS3s, LSD and gear based boost control.. so I'm hoping I'll be able to limit wheel spin right away and slowly ramp in the boost.

I have a rough idea of how it will behave, but almost everything has been changed this time around.

He's got the fuel cell mounted up front :hmm:


And landspeed those gauges/whole setup is looking AWESOME. Did you put the backpressure sensor in one of the manifold runners or down in the collector or what? I've always wanted to mount one in a 3" exhaust and see if there actually are gains to going bigger (for someone with 500hp or less)

Also wondering what the meth spray process will be? Will they all fire at the same time or at different boost levels? This is the first time I've seen someone set it up being pre-turbo, pre-intercooler, and at the TB. Is this "common" or are you just doing some experimenting?

Thank you! I'm really pleased with how the gauges came out, they are wired to a brain-box and sound like a computer booting up when the power is turned on. That and the big MagnaFuel pump in the engine make for a "pure business" type feeling. The whole car whirs, clicks and buzzes into life

Cannot wait to hear it fire on this big holset turbine dumping through the roof and loping along on the GSC S3's... hoping that will be done in the next few weeks. Just a few more fab pieces in the works, including a Headlight replacing scoop directly to the turbo like Mike Wohler's 2G and budget permitting its off to the dyno for low boost tune up to get things sorted out.

Being that AWD HX52 cars are touching 600whp in the mid 20psi range, and one car was making well north of 700whp at only 30psi.. I want to creep up on boost. Not sure what the shortblock will take. I think my ring-gaps are too tight, but I can't remember what I actually filed them too. They did survive 67.x lbs/min for a few months though.

This is a motor I built in the garage in 2009, and it's been attached to two chassis, two transmissions, easily more than a dozen cam/head/turbo setups and not skipped a beat. I think this setup and the demands I have for it will be its undoing. Either by 5 digit RPM or excessive cylinder pressure... or both LOL

Turbine Drive-pressure sensor is going in #4 close to the collector, just because that was where I could fit it best. I think it will be a handy bit of data to have, along with the pre- and post-turbine EGTs.

All 3 nozzles will come in at a set boost level on the progressive controller, probably relatively low boost too.

This pre/post turbo and TB setup is becoming more common, especially in the Turbo V8 Drag world.

Class restrictions may limit me to running just water at events, but the car will be on E85 as well now that I have it in my area.

Should allow me a wide safety margin and bring my EGTs down on the long runs!
 
On our HX52 land speed car we are injecting a ton of water pre-turbo and pre throttle body. The motor absolutely loves it. It literally springs to life at 6800rpm as if we are spraying with nitrous and not water alone. It has been done, some just don't share. I will say that I was able to make as much power by leaning on the car at 30psi with the water injection as I was at 39psi without it on the HX52.
 
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