The SS ARP Exhuast manifold studs break, quite a few members including myself have run them and after a lot of use mine started breaking when I was removing them.

spoonman said:

The SS ARP Exhuast manifold studs break, quite a few members including myself have run them and after a lot of use mine started breaking when I was removing them.

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Talking about the manifold to turbo bolts. The 2 shorties and 2 longs. Guess I should've stated that.

Okay now that is different. The FFWD Connection manifold to turbo bolts are ARP black oxide bolts. I used these on a small 16g for years with no problems

spoonman said:

The SS ARP Exhuast manifold studs break, quite a few members including myself have run them and after a lot of use mine started breaking when I was removing them.

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wow, never seen a SS manifold stud break before. I see tons of oem style ones with copper lock nuts break quite often.

spadepro22 said:

I have torqued(safer to say resued) my FP manifold bolts a 4-5 times and I'm wondering if I should look into replacing them. I want to know from the guys that have used the FFWD Connection ones, how to they hold up and do they ever back out? The FP ones I've never had a problem backing out, but there like 50 bucks to replace.

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There are difference I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong):

FP manifold bolt look like OEM style bolts, they have 6 point heads and use two (per bolt) spring washers. Great quality, never had a problem.

FFWD are not oem style. They are 12 point heads and have been coated to withstand corrosion and rust. They do not use the OEM style spring washers, they use flat ones. They are also very good quality.

I dont think the bolts are your problem, I would switch to oem style spring washers under the bolts. I was never really fond of the flat style they come with.

I run the FFWD Arp kit and my issue was the flat washers. Bolts kept backing out no matter how much I tqed them, tried blue n red threadlocker, same thing. Switched to lock washers n no issues since, you can use the split washers or the ones with curved teeth. Kinda look like a fan.

Evo_This said:

I run the FFWD Arp kit and my issue was the flat washers. Bolts kept backing out no matter how much I tqed them, tried blue n red threadlocker, same thing. Switched to lock washers n no issues since, you can use the split washers or the ones with curved teeth. Kinda look like a fan.

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Will any lock washer work with the FFWD? And is there any modifying of the the bolts?

agentorange313 said:

I dont think the bolts are your problem, I would switch to oem style spring washers under the bolts. I was never really fond of the flat style they come with.

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The bolts aren't my problem, they don't back out at all. I'm just wondering if the FFWD work because there like 30 bucks cheaper.

Why not just use OEM?
I've been using 2 long OEM DSM bolts with 2 OEM Evo shorties with no problems.

The ARP bolts are not designed to get that hot, at least thats what they told me straight up. The temp zone there is about 500*f above its max tolerance and somehow after that they get unbelieveably seized. Even with antiseize.

NHerron said:

at least thats what they told me straight up.

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Who FFWD?

'97boostinGST said:

Why not just use OEM?
I've been using 2 long OEM DSM bolts with 2 OEM Evo shorties with no problems.

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These?
http://www.jnztuning.com/product_info.php?products_id=3096&osCsid=034ce3dc17c9534b53b56b5de9f61987

Yep any lock washer will work, no modifing to the bolts just replace the flat ones they come with. Never had a problem with them seizing personally.

No, I asked ARP. I'm assuming that's also why the bolts come in an unmarked bag whereas say, cam bolts or the crank pulley bolt come in packaging designating it's purpose. They basically ask for four bolts that are 'a' long x 'b' diameter x 'c' thread pitch.

And hell no not just any lock washer will work, sorry. You stick any plain ole' lock washer there and it'll turn into just a flat washer after the first heat soak. It gits purdy hot down der...

Anything I put on I use anti-seize to prevent any problems in the future. If you go with SS studs, make sure you use the lock washers on the "regular" nuts. If you go OEM style, then those self-locking copper nuts are only good once, although I've used them a few times and they stayed tight. I think the best combo is SS studs with OEM nuts and don't ever take the nuts off. In any case, the anti-seize is key.

Excuse my lack of knowledge there but I've only seen two types of lock washers used on these bolts, split & teeth (for lack of knowing its real name). Didnt know there were other kinds to consider but can say these two types work correctly even after more than one use.

....Define 'works correctly'. You mean 'works correctly' as a WASHER and the washer is still intact and not totally disintegrated? Or are you actually proposing generic Ace Hardware lock washers are still doing their job and keeping tension on a bolt even after repeated horrendous <1000*F heat cycles?

Anyway, conical washers. OEM uses thick ones stacked two per bolt.
MR187848
STM: TURBO LOCK WASHERS | MR187848

I would highly recommend against the ARP turbo bolts I snapped all four off the last time I pulled the turbo. If you do choose to go with them use a good nickel based anti-seize, the nickel based stuff is rated to 2400F instead of the standard 1600F and seems to work well.

thehighlander said:

I would highly recommend against the ARP turbo bolts I snapped all four off the last time I pulled the turbo. If you do choose to go with them use a good nickel based anti-seize, the nickel based stuff is rated to 2400F instead of the standard 1600F and seems to work well.

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The ARP bolts we are talking about are not SS, the SS one are proned to breaking.

Nickel or copper based antizeize is the best, avoid using low temp aluminum based ones.

agentorange313 said:

The ARP bolts we are talking about are not SS, the SS one are proned to breaking.

In addition, the text above in red is highly incorrect. You should use a copper based anit-seize. Nickel base will actually weld together, being that most MHI housing have nickel content, evo3 having an even higher nickel content.

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Best info I've seen on this thread.

I have been using the same set of FFWD ARP Black Oxide turbo bolts for a couple of years now with no issues what-so-ever. I have always used Jegs copper anti-seize on these bolts. I have pulled them out and re-tourqed them several times and they are always nice and smooth. I highly recommend them.

The SS ARP bolts, as mentioned above, are a different story and should be avoided for this application.

agentorange313 said:

The ARP bolts we are talking about are not SS, the SS one are proned to breaking.

In addition, the text above in red is highly incorrect. You should use a copper based anit-seize. Nickel base will actually weld together, being that most MHI housing have nickel content, evo3 having an even higher nickel content.

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Why exactly would you think Nickel base will 'weld together'? Weld what? The threads? Wouldn't you think since the turbine housing and exhaust housing has a nickel content, nickel would be good since it's actually a similar metal? In this sense, metals getting stuck together doesn't happen with similar metals, it happens with DISsimilal metals.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61P8xr3+ktS.pdf
*It is recommended for use where
copper contamination must be avoided, under conditions of
extreme pressure and temperature and with stainless steel,
titanium and nickel alloys.*

JacksonAuto seems to agree...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...oil-exhaust-manifold-studs.html#post153118834

The ARP coatings have nothing to do with heat or strength. Black oxide is just another stainless type coating that keeps seizing at bay better than SS would since SS gets seized easily around different metals.

What's the thread pitch and length on the Evo shorties? I don't want to pay $50 for 4 bolts from fp

NHerron said:

Why exactly would you think Nickel base will 'weld together'? Weld what? The threads? Wouldn't you think since the turbine housing and exhaust housing has a nickel content, nickel would be good since it's actually a similar metal? In this sense, metals getting stuck together doesn't happen with similar metals, it happens with DISsimilal metals.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61P8xr3+ktS.pdf
*It is recommended for use where
copper contamination must be avoided, under conditions of
extreme pressure and temperature and with stainless steel,
titanium and nickel alloys.*

JacksonAuto seems to agree...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...oil-exhaust-manifold-studs.html#post153118834

The ARP coatings have nothing to do with heat or strength. Black oxide is just another stainless type coating that keeps seizing at bay better than SS would since SS gets seized easily around different metals.

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Hey buddy,

Sorry I was wrong, I misread what you wrote. ill edit my post.

I thought we were talking about aluminum, which is is what most low temp application antiseize is made of. Which, like you said, is a different metal and at high temps will bond the surfaces together.

Again sorry for the false statement, you are correct.

We're all good

Happy holidays buddy