Cdc1221 said:

Dont knock it til youve tried it. The evo 8/9 turbo in the 10.5 housing spools almost as fast as my t25 did, doesnt fall off like standard 16gs do, and i have absolutely no issues with boost creep. I have just around $200 in my setup. Of course i do have the luxury of a full machine shop at my disposal so i was able to build my headers, including the flanges, and the lower ic pipe. But the downfiring compressor does leave it easier to run a short route fmic if i choose to, though im considering w2a for shorter spool time.

I do have to say though, that on my awd ill probably go with a stock oriented turbo because of the headache of custom fabbing

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I don't think that anyone is questioning the performance of evo8/9 turbos, the larger twin scroll housings have their advantages and the 9s larger compressor housing, but at the end of the day its basically a reverse rotation of the old big/evo3 16gs as far as measurements of the wheels goes.

If your handy with fabrication and welding, you can probably build yourself a manifold and o2 housing that will fit and mod intercooler piping and keep the costs reasonable. But there's also plenty ofl 375-400whp+ dsm style 16gs out there already.. I don't see the point in trying to reinvent the wheel when you can just slap a evo3 16g on a ported 2g manifold and get very similar results.

toofast82 said:

I don't think that anyone is questioning the performance of evo8/9 turbos, the larger twin scroll housings have their advantages and the 9s larger compressor housing, but at the end of the day its basically a reverse rotation of the old big/evo3 16gs as far as measurements of the wheels goes.

If your handy with fabrication and welding, you can probably build yourself a manifold and o2 housing that will fit and mod intercooler piping and keep the costs reasonable. But there's also plenty ofl 375-400whp+ dsm style 16gs out there already.. I don't see the point in trying to reinvent the wheel when you can just slap a evo3 16g on a ported 2g manifold and get very similar results.

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Haha true. But i picked up the turbo, lines, and manifold for $80, knew i could do the fabrication, plus i wanted to be different . Lets just say im happy with my choice thus far, but ill probly get get one of the tried, true and tested turbos for my awd once i get maintenance and some other stuff done

Cdc1221 said:

Haha true. But i picked up the turbo, lines, and manifold for $80, knew i could do the fabrication, plus i wanted to be different . Lets just say im happy with my choice thus far, but ill probly get get one of the tried, true and tested turbos for my awd once i get maintenance and some other stuff done

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Id definitely say for anyone that can get it fully running on their car including cost of everything for under $500 then its a total win,.but anymore to me its a waste of time and money versus other options...
Got any pics you want to share with us of your setup?

Dont know why none of my pics show up but you can see it under my gallery

toofast82 said:

I don't think that anyone is questioning the performance of evo8/9 turbos, the larger twin scroll housings have their advantages and the 9s larger compressor housing, but at the end of the day its basically a reverse rotation of the old big/evo3 16gs as far as measurements of the wheels goes.

If your handy with fabrication and welding, you can probably build yourself a manifold and o2 housing that will fit and mod intercooler piping and keep the costs reasonable. But there's also plenty ofl 375-400whp+ dsm style 16gs out there already.. I don't see the point in trying to reinvent the wheel when you can just slap a evo3 16g on a ported 2g manifold and get very similar results.

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im well aware of what a e3 6g will do. the whole point of trying this is quick spool, and using as many stock components from various dsm/evos as possible.

almost solely for the fact of doing something as different as possible with stock components. im also looking for very fast spool while still making decent numbers. if i wanted to do the exact same thing, over and over again, i wouldnt be an automotive enthusiast.

i could really care less if the e3 16g will crank 400+ hp. its been done, millions of times. i dont want to turn this into another "just get a 16g thread", ive read all of them, and the reason i started this thread, is after searching and reading, i couldnt find a picture of what i wanted to see, nor a thread with the information i was seeking. it was always a jump to "its not worth it" or "just get X turbo, you can make Y horsepower with it"

tametalon92 said:

im well aware of what a e3 6g will do. the whole point of trying this is quick spool, and using as many stock components from various dsm/evos as possible.

almost solely for the fact of doing something as different as possible with stock components. im also looking for very fast spool while still making decent numbers. if i wanted to do the exact same thing, over and over again, i wouldnt be an automotive enthusiast.

i could really care less if the e3 16g will crank 400+ hp. its been done, millions of times. i dont want to turn this into another "just get a 16g thread", ive read all of them, and the reason i started this thread, is after searching and reading, i couldnt find a picture of what i wanted to see, nor a thread with the information i was seeking. it was always a jump to "its not worth it" or "just get X turbo, you can make Y horsepower with it"

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Amen to that. Is it worth the money? Probably not. Is it different? Definitely. Is it better than the e3 16g? For sure. It wins 2 out of three so its got my vote. Tametalon if you lived close by id definitely help you do it. I still say you should ditch the stock mani and do your own. Or you can do as i did the first time and buy/make two flanges, flip one the other way, weld two pipes in between and call it a day. Basically turns the turbo around so its facing the pass side. Downside is it sits low in the bay

Cdc1221 said:

Amen to that. Is it worth the money? Probably not. Is it different? Definitely. Is it better than the e3 16g? For sure. It wins 2 out of three so its got my vote. Tametalon if you lived close by id definitely help you do it. I still say you should ditch the stock mani and do your own. Or you can do as i did the first time and buy/make two flanges, flip one the other way, weld two pipes in between and call it a day. Basically turns the turbo around so its facing the pass side. Downside is it sits low in the bay

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the whole point is to use a stock manifold. if i was going to make a manifold, id build it for a gt35-37 twin scroll or gtk550 or something retarded. id rather get a stock manifold, lightly port it, coat it and/or wrap it, keep as much thermal captivity as possible and not have to worry about cracking.

also, i would rather have the turbo facing the stock evo orientation, so i dont have to use an adapter. i also have ps deleted, per the miata mod, and im relocating the alternator. i have no problem putting the intake on the DS.

one of the threads actually had a 2g with the turbo flipped, so it was fairly telling of where the turbo would sit. i pmed him about some more pictures, but it looks like the turbo would fit, just might have to modify the water pipe as aforementioned. i could easily modify the pump outlet to have it exit straight out and use a different rad. or just have a pipe bent around the turbo. if worse came to worse, a spacer flange would provide clearance. the DP would almost match up, just tilt it to the other side (i wouldnt care, as with this setup, id be doing a front exit exhaust on the passenger side)

once i get some time and ahead of my bills, im going to find a manifold and turbo. some more input would be appreciated, and im still looking for more pictures!

Yea i can understand. Hopefully someday soon, one of these manifold companies will catch on to the cheap availability of these turbos and offer up a cheap tubular mani to bolt up to our cars. Hell i would if i had a mandrel bender

If your gonna face it to the driver side just use the stock evo manifold then. You don't need a special one. It bolts right on. Then its just making intake piping and exhaust. With ps gone and alternator on the back it would be easy.

I have plans to make mani's for this app soon as i can. I may just have to hand make them. The design i have could deff use some improvement.

Only pix i have are of the the dsm way

MJcanada said:

If your gonna face it to the driver side just use the stock evo manifold then. You don't need a special one. It bolts right on. Then its just making intake piping and exhaust. With ps gone and alternator on the back it would be easy.

I have plans to make mani's for this app soon as i can. I may just have to hand make them. The design i have could deff use some improvement.

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Yea i thought about using a dsm aftermarket header with my evo 8 flange welded to it, facing the turbo to the pass side. But at the time i built my header i was too broke to buy one

Cdc1221 said:

Yea i thought about using a dsm aftermarket header with my evo 8 flange welded to it, facing the turbo to the pass side. But at the time i built my header i was too broke to buy one

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most DSM headers are not equal length, thus defeating the purpose of the twinscroll option on evo 4-9, 10 turbos. In addition you will need to separate the pulses that our engine makes into two separate collectors for the inlet of the turbo.

Must be separated and equal length. ^^^

Yes, that is how mine is set up. Although theyre not equal length. Actually the best thing would be to buy a tubular header for an evo 8 and cut the turbo flange off and weld it back on in reverse. Probably about $300 in at this point. Unfortunately, it would still be situated more to the right of the head than the stock dsm loc. meaning you would still need to relocate the alt. to clear the o2 housing

my plan is to find a stock evo 8/9 manifold. its going to be some time before i could outright buy one. i will also just use a spacer to get the turbo away from the block if needed.

as for right now, ill just be using my small 16g.

on a side note, i just picked up an almost new hx50 from a local diesel shop employee, for essentially free (traded an m62 supercharger i got for free for it), so i may have to find something to use that for after it gets a decent cleaning.

id like to keep this going, just in case anyone has more stuff to share

MJcanada: thats a nutty looking mani, looks like medusas coils. pretty nice!

Funny I was reading on BD site or maybe a another one looking for a 600hp turbo for a cummings going in a ford and some ppl were saying their diesels like 6.0 & 7.3 couldn't get the hx 52 and larger to spool up yet we run them on our 2.Xs .

I can probably get you the mani fairly priced. I sold my evo8 engine alil while back. If still has the mani I'm sure he'd be willing to sell it.

And yeah its pretty crazy but it works good. Everything clears though if I wanna change oil filter I'd have to use a forward facing ofh. Which i will. Other than that just one slim fan, maybe one or two custom custom fmic pipes and im good.

spool isnt always related to engine size, but it does play a part. the thing about diesels is their exhaust is cold and slow moving, not the greatest for spooling. thermal expansion is more important.

if hes got a stock manifold, id be interested.

I always thought they would spool better because of the high compression it takes to explode the diesel. Thought that would have faster moving exhaust. I'm no diesel expert though. I seen a cummings mani the other and dang the exhaust ports were so small!

And alright i'll contact him and see.

compression equals velocity, but it also equals heat. thats the biggest point. diesels need as much heat as possible. theres a large amount of info for this subject but thats the bare bones.

trouble for gas engine is we hit knock alot easier once we up compression and throw in boost. you can do high compression turbo, but your tuning must be spot on.

one reason i wish someone could do retrofit kits for GDI for other vehicles. an 11:1 turbo build with superior fuel atomization, better fuel economy and less emissions...sounds good to me. fords been doing it for the past ten years. mazdas came with the 2.3 turbo engines and they put out 263hp and got about 38mpg in the real world. now they call that technology ecoboost. they conjunct now with a BAS system (belt alternator/starter) to further improve efficiency and use less acc. components.

anyway, if i can offload this hx50 i just got, ill try and purchase some evo parts.

The thing with a high comp turbo build is to use a large turbo. Its the only way to lower internal combustion pressure and up airflow.

Its all about thinking about the internal combustion pressure. You take a 2g 8.5:1 to say 9.5:1 or 10:1 your doing the same thing thing as upping boost pressure. Say you had a hx52 running 40lbs of boost with 8.5:1 CR. You could change your CR to 9.5:1 and make the same hp with the same turbo at 30lbs of boost. Take it to 11:1 CR same turbo makes same hp at 15-20lbs.

At least thats my theory in my head sure it's not deadly accurate but basically how it is. That way you can make the same power without working your engine and turbo so hard and make less heat as well. Plus high CR is more efficient like you said and gives an engine a stronger torque band which makes out of boost driving better.

I'm you knew most of this just something I like to discuss as my next build will be at least a 9.5:1 CR engine. I also think a destroked 2.1L long rod engine would make a perfect high CR engine that could potentially rev to 11'000

MJcanada said:

The thing with a high comp turbo build is to use a large turbo. Its the only way to lower internal combustion pressure and up airflow.

Its all about thinking about the internal combustion pressure. You take a 2g 8.5:1 to say 9.5:1 or 10:1 your doing the same thing thing as upping boost pressure. Say you had a hx52 running 40lbs of boost with 8.5:1 CR. You could change your CR to 9.5:1 and make the same hp with the same turbo at 30lbs of boost. Take it to 11:1 CR same turbo makes same hp at 15-20lbs.

At least thats my theory in my head sure it's not deadly accurate but basically how it is. That way you can make the same power without working your engine and turbo so hard and make less heat as well. Plus high CR is more efficient like you said and gives an engine a stronger torque band which makes out of boost driving better.

I'm you knew most of this just something I like to discuss as my next build will be at least a 9.5:1 CR engine. I also think a destroked 2.1L long rod engine would make a perfect high CR engine that could potentially rev to 11'000

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Not necessarily. Hp equates to how much airflow you can move at a given period of time. If my 8.5:1 CR can move 60 lbs/min. And your 10:1 CR can only move 45 lbs/min, mine will make more hp. But, thats just for numbers. The higher cr will boost faster and make more low end power, which is better suited for street driving. But how many people want to drop $$ on a strictly street driven car?

Cdc1221 said:

Not necessarily. Hp equates to how much airflow you can move at a given period of time. If my 8.5:1 CR can move 60 lbs/min. And your 10:1 CR can only move 45 lbs/min, mine will make more hp. But, thats just for numbers. The higher cr will boost faster and make more low end power, which is better suited for street driving. But how many people want to drop $$ on a strictly street driven car?

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this guy...

tametalon92 said:

this guy...

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Haha

Cdc1221 said:

Yea i can understand. Hopefully someday soon, one of these manifold companies will catch on to the cheap availability of these turbos and offer up a cheap tubular mani to bolt up to our cars. Hell i would if i had a mandrel bender

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Most quality manifolds are gonna have few bends and more pie cuts.

Welding takes time to do right. Thats why tubular manifolds are a bit more expensive.

Tubular manifolds are also more prone to cracking.

Cast manifolds keep more heat inside, push exhaust gas out through the turbo faster, and keep heat out of the engine bay better. Which is just good for a street car.

TSI_93 said:

Most quality manifolds are gonna have few bends and more pie cuts.

Welding takes time to do right. Thats why tubular manifolds are a bit more expensive.

Tubular manifolds are also more prone to cracking.

Cast manifolds keep more heat inside, push exhaust gas out through the turbo faster, and keep heat out of the engine bay better. Which is just good for a street car.

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Trust me i know. Im a welder by trade. And yes cast is nice, but thats not really an option with a custom turbo installation, which the late evo turbos fall under. Because if you dont do a custom header, then you have to completely customize everything else to get the turbo to work under a dsm hood. This is why only a few have attempted this swap. There is no aftermarket support for it