dyno result, lots of knock

bump · Nov 9, 2012

Hi,
First off im still an amature to all of this and here i go...
My car is mostly stock with cheap bolt on's (im a family guy with a low income)
ebay tdo5 20g, header, turbo back 3'' exhaust, mbc set @ 14psi, new seals on tb, hard icp stock cooler, prothane mounts, bs eliminated, ps and ac removed, mmcd logger, narrow band christmas show guage, boost guage, fuel pump rewire, new injector seals. timing set @ 5 degrees

dyno: super flow windyn v2.6
whp;218.6@ 5800rpm (fwd car)
wtrq; 219.6@ 4700 rpm

heres the scary part: 30 counts of knock @ 6718 rpm.
injd 74.2% o2-r .80v tima 11 degrees
i was standig next to the engine when it was being ran and didt hear any pining of the sort. i get alot of phantom knock a low rpm
i ran 91oct with some oct booster for the dyno thinking it would help.

on the log the knock count started @ 3750 rpm 8 counts back down to 3@ 5700rpm and up to 20 counts 2 6300rpm drops to 18 6000 then shot up to 30 @ 67k
where the header is bolted to the turbo got cherry red but still didnt hear audible knocking.
im looking for some constructive criticism from the wise
and i have $300 to spend just dont know what to get (advive please)
thank you

Tyeler18 · Nov 9, 2012

For starters, your IDC's are definitely not right, unless you put bigger injectors in, but you just have "new" listed?

The red hot manifold shows your going lean, which it will on that 20g with stock 450 injectors.

Then the knock, the combination of going extremely lean and stock SMIC are more than likely what's causing it. I can heat soak my SMIC from one 3rd gear street pull so bad that by 6000rpm's it's pulling 15+ degrees of timing.

4g63t · Nov 9, 2012

I would start by getting a wideband to see where your at during the knock points.

bump · Nov 9, 2012

yes i have stock injectors
thank you for the response

Tyeler18 · Nov 9, 2012

bump said:
yes i have stock injectors
thank you for the response

That's probably the big part of your issue, those stock 450's are maxed. We maxed stock 450's at ~15lbs on a 16g, they don't last long.

bump · Nov 9, 2012

wow, will be turning it down a bit, so a wideband, bigger intercooler, and bigger injectors? im trying to read alot on the tuning aspect and wont be getting dsmlink for a long time but its starting to make sene alittle. im pretty content on the power im making i just want my engine to last
can you recomend injector size and what goes along with it
thank you guys for the help

Tyeler18 · Nov 9, 2012

bump said:
wow, will be turning it down a bit, so a wideband, bigger intercooler, and bigger injectors? im trying to read alot on the tuning aspect and wont be getting dsmlink for a long time but its starting to make sene alittle. im pretty content on the power im making i just want my engine to last
can you recomend injector size and what goes along with it
thank you guys for the help

I assume you want to stay on pump gas? If so I'd just pick up a set of 750-800cc injectors, but you're going to need a tuning device for it. Link would be more beneficial than anything really.

bump · Nov 9, 2012

yes im staying with pump gas as i live in B.F.E. 200mi for anything higher than 91oct
thakyou again for the advice, will be saving for link and injectors =)

toofast82 · Nov 9, 2012

Stock timing maps on 1gs are pretty aggressive. It's probably a major contributor to the knock your seeing.
Get a wideband asap to verify safe a/fs too
You can lower boost to 10psi and see if knock is reduced for starters

bastarddsm · Nov 9, 2012

I'd probably back the boost down to about 10 untill you get it figured out.

It by your idc's and boost level and o2 voltage, something is fishy, you should have higher idc's than that. Are you sure your maf is good? You might be overrunning it at this point.

Pull your plugs out and check them, if they have black speck on them your seeing real detonation, and that WILL kill your motor in a hurry.

bump · Nov 10, 2012

plugs are rusty in color all 4 no black specs just solid rusty color.
also just a side note i live 7000ft alt.
mas is working on logger
ngk bpr6es plugs, new a few months ago
lower mas hacked messed with screw bottom of mas it sits halfway in.

went and logged a 3rd gear pull with boost @10-11psi
@6812 rpm:
injd: 62.5%
knock 30 counts
o2-r .76 v
tima 18 degrees
mafs 1599hz
its alot colder today and i think my exhaust is rubbing in the back going to fix and do another log

jjw205 · Nov 10, 2012

Your o2 voltage is very lean. You need a wideband ASAP before you melt something.

You can get a basic AEM setup used for usually $100-$125. You will eventually need one no matter what, might as well get it now or you will regret it by the looks of it.

bump · Nov 10, 2012

ok, buying a wideband im just going to park it till i get it installed. about a week.

toofast82 · Nov 10, 2012

Any exhaust leaks or cracks before the turbo and o2 sensor? Do a boost leak test too to verify no boost leaks

bastarddsm · Nov 10, 2012

Post a picture of your plugs. Also consider getting some race fuel to see if this is real knock.

You can't always go off the nb o2 voltage, and being at 7000' tells why the IDC is low.

clipto · Nov 12, 2012

Save up for bigger inejectors, fuel pump, ecmlink, fmic, good tuner and then hope that ebay 20g hold together. To big turbo for stock setup. buy ngkbpr7es spark plugs and ngk blue wires. Do your maintanance and have fun. Look into SD ditch stock 1g maf setup or ghetto gm maf or 2g maf on a 1g its super old technoligy. Do it right first time save money you will be happy.

4g63t · Nov 12, 2012

Do you have a eprom ecu? You will need one for a chip or link. If so, I would talk to user my1gdsm on here and get a chip made for whatever size injectors you go with and be done with it. No need to spend a bunch of cash on link. .

bump · Jan 28, 2013

Heres a pic of sparky.
Its not -9 out any more so i got the wb o2 abd guage all plugged in and went for a little drive today. I did a little pull in 2nd and watch the guage go to 11.8 then started going up into 12 I just backed out of it. Isnt that really lean?
I lost my data logger so should be getting another here soon.
I dont have an eprom...yet.
Sooo...Should I go all out and buy link or just get my ecu converted and burn it or sd? im only wanting to end up with 300-350hp
Thank You

crash89 · Jan 28, 2013

Tyeler18 said:
That's probably the big part of your issue, those stock 450's are maxed. We maxed stock 450's at ~15lbs on a 16g, they don't last long.

Not necessarily.. My car made 297whp and 250tq on a similar set up as he described.. MHI 20g, 10lb spring in the wg, 3" exhaust, 255 pump (not rewired) and BC 272s.. Thats it.. Stock injectors, no wideband, no tuning solution. I did however get a log of it and saw my IDC's were 120+ by redline. Once I saw that said no more!!

OP I would really suggest to at least get DSMlink lite.. Considerably cheaper and would probably suit all your needs.. I learned how to tune my spyder myself (with some help from guys on the link forums) in just a couple days.. Its really easy!

bastarddsm · Jan 28, 2013

12 is a little lean on 93 to me. I'd like it about 11.0 ish.

bump · Jan 29, 2013

Thank you guys for the help and suggestions. I will have link in a month and have begun to read about it.
Its crazy how long this genre of life has been around and there are people that will take the time to answer an age old scenario like mine I have much respect for you guys that take the time and help people instead of grumpy old men attitude thanks again.

Black-Out · Jan 30, 2013

bastarddsm said:
12 is a little lean on 93 to me. I'd like it about 11.0 ish.

Amen, the last time I tuned my buddy's car it wasn't really happy till the AFR's got around 11.5-11.7........at least thats where it made the most power and torque at the boost and timing I was running......

Them plugs are showing a stupid lean burn.....

PieEyedPiper · Jan 30, 2013

Black-Out said:
Amen, the last time I tuned my buddy's car it wasn't really happy till the AFR's got around 11.5-11.7........at least thats where it made the most power and torque at the boost and timing I was running......

Them plugs are showing a stupid lean burn.....

I won't be an expert on what a lean plug looks like but I do know when running octane boosters (that raise numbers, not points) can change the plug to a very similar color.

It very well may be a lean plug I just figured I'd mention it.

Norcalgsx707 · Jan 30, 2013

Not trying to thread jack but mines doing the same thing with a big 16g I have it logged at 11.7 @ 67 mph

toppertopper · Jan 30, 2013

I would pick up link if you have $300 their is v2 or v2.5 in the classifieds for $350 ,..turn down the boost wait for link wideband and injectors :thumb:

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