Make sure your return line isn't blocked somehow. Are they burning oil? Or the bearings just getting trashed?

Slahm said:

I plan on starting it with the third mostly screwed turbo in it today, and taking off the return lines for oil and coolant while running to see actual flow... What should I see from the oil side? I assume I should see tons of coolant....

Thanks!

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do NOT do that. Take pictures of the turbos(without the o2 housing on) and how your feeding the oil. How are they failing? Blowing the seals out? Bearings going out and they are getting bad shaft play?

Btw the 14b and 16g are the same on the hotside besides the 16g coming with a 7cm housing instead of thr 6cm on the 14b. Only other difference is the compressor side of it. Hot sides are interchangeable.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/444131-turbo-failure-number-4-suggestions.html

You definitely have an oiling problem of some kind....either not enough, or contamination.

I can take pictures when I get back there, but they will simply show interference, as the bearings are failing, pretty much catastophically, the first 14 failed and hit the impeller so suddenly that it broke the wheel off. The play is complete, and therefore the wheels are pretty much destroyed, although this third one has not mangled the wheels yet, at least not the compressor side, I will check the rest when I take it off....

Slahm said:

I can take pictures when I get back there, but they will simply show interference, as the bearings are failing, pretty much catastophically, the first 14 failed and hit the impeller so suddenly that it broke the wheel off. The play is complete, and therefore the wheels are pretty much destroyed, although this third one has not mangled the wheels yet, at least not the compressor side, I will check the rest when I take it off....

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Yeah you have an oiling problem. I would deffinately check your oil feed. Where are you getting the turbos? Are you making sure they are clean inside?

I am taking a pretty good look at them, but not disassembling them completely. I have been caught a bit by surprise... The first one failed after cooking an engine. The replacement engine was in a runner, and seemed OK, no particular problems, just a car.

So I assumed the first failed due to being cooked on an engine seize...

The second, I assumed was because it had sat for so long, it was pulled from a wrecker car, and had sat for what appeared to be a very long time, but spun clean, and had very little play.

The third, again, I checked that it seemed tight, and didn't expect to have another eat itself....

From reading the thread that was posted, I am now worried about contamination, although the oil was new, and I didn't expect any mystery problems with this engine.... A whole teardown seem overkill, but maybe thats required?

How much flow should a person expect when pre-oiling a turbo, should it fall right through, or barely trickle? I'm not sure that I want to pull this whole engine apart chasing particles, I'm not convinced that is the problem(except maybe from these turbo bearings now), but neither do I want to wreck another turbo...

Pre-filtering the turbo does seem a bit cheesy, but I am willing to try it, anyone have suggestions there?

Did you use parts from the seized engine? I.E. The oil cooler?

At, least drop the oil pan and check it for shavings and check internals for damage/wear.

Oil will not "fall" right through but if your pouring it in it should do more than drip drop out.

Pre-filter would be a good idea. If only temporary it would show any contamination.

I didn't even use the oil cooler, just the turbo. I don't think there was anything else used... I did not clean out the turbo, it seemed fine.

From doing an engine swap to burning up turbos, I would expect that the new engine was not delivering oil, but it seems to, or that the seller lied about the condition...

But I know the seller reasonably well, and don't think he misled me, and the oil flow seems good....

Again, how much flow through should I see on a bench, or running.

I think I will likely still start it, without the air intake hooked up, incase the compressor wheel kills itself, and check oil flow. But I DO NOT know what to expect for flow.... Any suggestions on what I should hope to see for oil? Should it pound through or just trickle?

EDIT: Was going to ask about the cooling lines, but noticed that you've mentioned of the cooling loop being okey ..but on the bench. Wonder if the problem lies in actual operation?

They sure do, and seem clear. They fail so fast that I would be surprised if it was cooling related. But I do not know. How much oil should flow through it at idle?

Can't be coolant-related as coolant does nothing to cool the turbo during operation. The last two or three 16G's I've installed for guys never got coolant lines, and they're still alive to this day.

I thought the coolant lines also cooled the turbo... As well as the oil.

Still no one with thoughts on oil volume I should see?

Slahm said:

I thought the coolant lines also cooled the turbo... As well as the oil.

Still no one with thoughts on oil volume I should see?

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No one ever runs their car with the oil drain off. So can't really be too specific about that.

No pix of oil feed line? What type of line is it? And what kind of fitting are you using? Pix of it so we can see the size hole your running oil through.

They do cool the turbo I guess somewhat but I've been running without them on my 14b for awhile now and its been fine.

Use a good 14b and get a stainless steel oil feed line and feed,it from the ofh. Delete the cooling lines and loop them into each other on the engine side. You won't have an oil restriction problem them.

If it blows again its contamination.

I dropped it off at the shop, have no pics for today. I am planning on doing mostly what you suggest, MJcanada, If I were to feed from the filter housing, is there an obvious spot, and I will assume it would be post-filter....

Is there actually a reason to delete the cooling lines? I am beating the heck out of this car (when is work properly), it is a rally car. I would hate to take the cooling lines off if they are helping? I cannot see them hurting?

Also, and most important for this part, can I just cap the head oil source? I can't see why not....

Thanks!

Slahm said:

I dropped it off at the shop, have no pics for today. I am planning on doing mostly what you suggest, MJcanada, If I were to feed from the filter housing, is there an obvious spot, and I will assume it would be post-filter....

Is there actually a reason to delete the cooling lines? I am beating the heck out of this car (when is work properly), it is a rally car. I would hate to take the cooling lines off if they are helping? I cannot see them hurting?

Also, and most important for this part, can I just cap the head oil source? I can't see why not....

Thanks!

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This is where mine goes. Should be the same for you.

And yes just cap the head source.


Yes you can keep them. Really what the coolant lines do cool your turbo down after a run. If you delete them then after running it hard you would want to do a cool down by either driving easy no boosting for a few and just let it idle. Pretty much what the purpose of a turbo timer. But no it won't hurt anything to keep them. It would be fine.

Only reason I didn't use them was because(unknown to me when installing) one of the banjo bolts from my kit was,a thread too long and I couldn't torque it right. So it kept leaking on me.

Whenever I remove the turbo again I may shave the bolt and reinstall my coolant lines.

Thanks a ton for the pics! I have sourced a 16g, which I had originally, and a 14b which I will test on, hoping not to destroy it!!

Just for good measure since you have chewed up a couple of turbos. Take your oil filter off and cut the metal housing off and check the paper filter inside. Look in the folds for journal bearing material. Just a thought. If this is your problem you will continue to kill turbos ( go ahead ask me how I know, ask me). The metal floating around in your engine will block the oiling hole inside the turbo an cause it to fail and it doesnt need much. I changed the oil several times in one day to try and flush all that stuff out and ran a preturbo filter and I have yet to kill my last turbo install.

I will absolutely do that! Thanks!

untouchablecc said:

Just for good measure since you have chewed up a couple of turbos. Take your oil filter off and cut the metal housing off and check the paper filter inside. Look in the folds for journal bearing material. Just a thought. If this is your problem you will continue to kill turbos ( go ahead ask me how I know, ask me). The metal floating around in your engine will block the oiling hole inside the turbo an cause it to fail and it doesnt need much. I changed the oil several times in one day to try and flush all that stuff out and ran a preturbo filter and I have yet to kill my last turbo install.

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+1 on that. If there is metal in the filter you will need to clean your oil cooler out as best as you possibly can. Or source a different one. They can trap the metal.

I would PM justin and tell him about your setup. he can give you a much better idea of what to run oil pressure wise than any of us can without knowing the die-hard specifics. Also, if you haven't already i'd drop the oil pan and see what treasures you have in the oil supply well. if there are metal shavings in there that can get past the oil feed tube filter, that can be why your trashing new turbos once a day. I found a thrust bearing in my oil pan, so you never know man

Even with stock setup, there is a note mounted on the sun visor to let the vehicle sit for a minute or two after a fast drive to allow the oil to extract the heat from the turbo and my oil cooler is the external type, not the revised water jacket type found in later DSM models.

Good luck - DSM

couch said:

o2 housing ported and exhuast housing and turn down the boost it sounds like boost creep

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Huh??? Boost creep is killing his bearings within minutes??

Could also be blow off valve not opening and wiping out the bearings had that happen to both of my turbos something toltolook at .

Time to get a mechanic that can help you not blow up stuff.