I guess my terminology is not correct. I should say "rarefaction" wave simulation, not acoustical or pulse flow. Time for a new thread, yes.

I got to see a cosworth racing v8 up close and check out the intake manifold. Here are some pictures of the runners, couldn't get a flashlight to hit the inside of the plenum

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/tkelly27/IMG_0902.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/tkelly27/IMG_0904.jpg

The inlets inside the manifold were actually not raised above the surface of the plenum wall, but they were much more circular than the final port shape. Also a very significant amount bigger. The taper tapers off along the runner. An exponential shape I guess is what I'd call it.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/tkelly27/IMG_0899.jpg

The bellmouths or whatever you would call them almost touched each other and extended to nearly the full height of the plenum wall they sat on. Here's a better picture

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/tkelly27/IMG_0908.jpg

Neat stuff. the throttle plate is amazing! It looks like a smushed flying saucer.

Just to clear up a bunch of confusion about this SMIM... Here's all the testing you need.

Turbo4

Boosted98gsx said:

Just to clear up a bunch of confusion about this SMIM... Here's all the testing you need.

Turbo4

Click to expand...

??? I'm confused 2 3 years later the manifold shows up on a all out race car dragster that has always been fast even when it had the Magnus manifold on it proves what? I'm not a fan of the owner or his circle but this car is a FAST dragster. Hell you could probably put a jmf drag manifold on this thing and post the same times and have spent much less.

Wow slipi, come on man. Is this personal? Even if a motor is making crap loads of power, I'm sure you could see if a part was binifitial. Who ever built that car would know this. Well any who. I bought this manifold, so we will see on a fresh built motor what it is capable of.

godschylde777 said:

Wow slipi, come on man. Is this personal? Even if a motor is making crap loads of power, I'm sure you could see if a part was binifitial. Who ever built that car would know this. Well any who. I bought this manifold, so we will see on a fresh built motor what it is capable of.

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This manifrold from the gate was a good manifold and probably as good if not better than most designs back when it came out but it has never proved to be worth the 1200 price tag that it has. You figure Magnus has come out with its V3 and JMF has its Drag manifold now all of which use the same concept as this manifold to increase flow without losing velocity. None of which cost 1200. If you can get this for a deal hop on it but if not there are better choices that's all. I just want to clear that up this is in no way a bad or crappy manifold just overpriced.

Slipi I can say a lot of thing are over priced. I have a computer that cost me 7k to build. Everything is top of the line. Some would argue that it did not take all of that to achieve what a cheaper built system could do. The point is, it has been a year I believe since I built this computer. There has been other things that have come out on the lower end but my comp is still at the top of the food chain. Even when this manifold came out you gave him a hard time. Now that it has been out for a min. Now you say it's to old. Quality is quality. It was well built. Anyone I have asked has said that this thing is the real deal. The guys that I have asked know their stuff, so I trust them.

Slippi84 said:

This manifrold from the gate was a good manifold and probably as good if not better than most designs back when it came out but it has never proved to be worth the 1200 price tag that it has. You figure Magnus has come out with its V3 and JMF has its Drag manifold now all of which use the same concept as this manifold to increase flow without losing velocity. None of which cost 1200. If you can get this for a deal hop on it but if not there are better choices that's all. I just want to clear that up this is in no way a bad or crappy manifold just overpriced.

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Tapered runners. How do they work? Magnus still hasn't been able to grasp this concept. They still think the plenum's job is to try to increase velocity. Laughable. The plenum is practically constant pressure if it's large enough in volume. The runners are what increase velocity. What happens when you choke down freeway traffic at the last second? You get a massive pile up and loss of velocity.... Compare that to Magnus' design.

Boosted98gsx said:

Tapered runners. How do they work? Magnus still hasn't been able to grasp this concept. They still think the plenum's job is to try to increase velocity. Laughable. The plenum is practically constant pressure if it's large enough in volume. The runners are what increase velocity. What happens when you choke down freeway traffic at the last second? You get a massive pile up and loss of velocity.... Compare that to Magnus' design.

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Um what he said

Lol I concur, almost anything is better than a magnus intake. There are quite a few basic guidelines to make an intake that doesn't suck.

1. Plenum volume 1.5-2.5 times the displacement
2. the end extends to about 1-.5 times the area of the plenum past the last runner.
3. tapering the cross sectional area down to about 80% at the end is ok.


My biggest complaint is that I feel most of these have runners that are too short for anything but a motor that lives at 8000-12000RPM. But it would be really hard to get a longer runner that is tapered without using a casting.

I can't believe this disscussion is still going on. It's a nice manifold, and knowing how long it takes to make something like this, $1200 isn't a bad price. I think he has fixed a few shortcomings of the other designs, but it is far from perfect. It's a nice compromise that still fits easily.

It's funny tho, none of the opponents of this manifold, have ANYTHING to show for 2 years later. Armchair quarterbacking must be fun for you guys.

bastarddsm said:

Lol I concur, almost anything is better than a magnus intake. There are quite a few basic guidelines to make an intake that doesn't suck.

1. Plenum volume 1.5-2.5 times the displacement
2. the end extends to about 1-.5 times the area of the plenum past the last runner.
3. tapering the cross sectional area down to about 80% at the end is ok.


My biggest complaint is that I feel most of these have runners that are too short for anything but a motor that lives at 8000-12000RPM. But it would be really hard to get a longer runner that is tapered without using a casting.

I can't believe this disscussion is still going on. It's a nice manifold, and knowing how long it takes to make something like this, $1200 isn't a bad price. I think he has fixed a few shortcomings of the other designs, but it is far from perfect. It's a nice compromise that still fits easily.

It's funny tho, none of the opponents of this manifold, have ANYTHING to show for 2 years later. Armchair quarterbacking must be fun for you guys.

Click to expand...

I am stunned that you are backing me up on this manifold.

This manifold is just about AS BIG as you can fit in a 2g. It's a bi*** and a half to get this thing on and off, because it utilizes all the space available.

bastarddsm said:

Lol I concur, almost anything is better than a magnus intake. There are quite a few basic guidelines to make an intake that doesn't suck.

1. Plenum volume 1.5-2.5 times the displacement
2. the end extends to about 1-.5 times the area of the plenum past the last runner.
3. tapering the cross sectional area down to about 80% at the end is ok.


My biggest complaint is that I feel most of these have runners that are too short for anything but a motor that lives at 8000-12000RPM. But it would be really hard to get a longer runner that is tapered without using a casting.

I can't believe this disscussion is still going on. It's a nice manifold, and knowing how long it takes to make something like this, $1200 isn't a bad price. I think he has fixed a few shortcomings of the other designs, but it is far from perfect. It's a nice compromise that still fits easily.

It's funny tho, none of the opponents of this manifold, have ANYTHING to show for 2 years later. Armchair quarterbacking must be fun for you guys.

Click to expand...

Lol it's just that I have asked around about this mani before I made up my mind to buy it. No one had anything bad to say. They praised me for making the deal.

Boosted98gsx said:

I am stunned that you are backing me up on this manifold.

This manifold is just about AS BIG as you can fit in a 2g. It's a bi*** and a half to get this thing on and off, because it utilizes all the space available.

Click to expand...

Lol, well your not wrong. The only area I could see this manifold needing improvement is longer runners, so it would be "tuned" for like 7-10k. I don't feel that our heads have the geometry to support cams big enough to make power where the runners are tuned for. But that's just my feeling, and unfortunatly that would require castings and such, probably turning this into a $1500 manifold.

I know what you mean about being about as big as possible. My current manifold is one I made out of a piece of 4" pipe and a stock intake. I cut the runners right where they start to turn for about 8" length, and what I hope is a "tuned hp peak" at about 7500. It's a ########## to work on as it's right against the cruise module. My plenum is about 2.3l and each end extends about 3" past the runners. So far I'm thrilled with it. I'm making peak power of 600 at 7300 with dks 272 and it still makes 550 at 9000. Most of these "arm chair" tuners would say it would never work, but it does.

Never said the thing was old just said that it was good then and is good now. Never said anything different all I EVER said was it's not worth $1200. Your computer probably outperforms the newer computers. I would put JMF's drag manifold up against this thing and seeing how this cost almost twice as much that would mean it should almost outperform it 2 fold....it doesn't. One all out drag car that goes fast doesn't justify a manifold. How has it performed on a more real world setup like the OPs? I'm more a fan of the JMF than Magnus but the magus manifold is on a a green 1g that makes over 1000whp so it can't be that bad and cost A LOT less than this manifold.

Remember when talking price it;s all opinon. What you are willing to pay is your business and none of mine. I just don't want a noob with money to think if he or she buys this they will make SOOO much if anything more than the other manifolds on the market across the board because the results have shown it won't

I can't believe this thread is still alive. Worth is subjective! I don't know why people care about how much some one else is willing to spend on a part. A more expensive product doesn't make it better by any means but at the same time you get what you pay for. It's pathetic how cheap some DSM'ers are when it comes to stuff like this. Go look at what it costs for aftermarket parts on different platforms.

Slippi84 said:

Never said the thing was old just said that it was good then and is good now. Never said anything different all I EVER said was it's not worth $1200. Your computer probably outperforms the newer computers. I would put JMF's drag manifold up against this thing and seeing how this cost almost twice as much that would mean it should almost outperform it 2 fold....it doesn't. One all out drag car that goes fast doesn't justify a manifold. How has it performed on a more real world setup like the OPs? I'm more a fan of the JMF than Magnus but the magus manifold is on a a green 1g that makes over 1000whp so it can't be that bad and cost A LOT less than this manifold.

Remember when talking price it;s all opinon. What you are willing to pay is your business and none of mine. I just don't want a noob with money to think if he or she buys this they will make SOOO much if anything more than the other manifolds on the market across the board because the results have shown it won't

Click to expand...

First off I'm not a noob with money. Don't start with the insults. I have built my car with my bare hands, taking the time to read and do things the right way. Never half doing anything. If you remember I even fixed a motor you as a veteran messed up. Me haveing money does not make me ignorant to the value of quality and longevity. I own a Magnus race. I could have used it, but when this came up for sale I asked around and was advices by many true VETRANS to buy it. I listened to them. Now as far as one product costing twice the amount as another product and you getting double the performance out of said product....well that is fullish. You would be happy to see an increase of 3-5% per $100. That's being generous. That just does not happen in the real world. Especially when it comes to performance car parts. What I have learned as a NOOB, is that it is not that any given part will ad Hp to your current setup. Yet it allows the Hp or to to be gained more efficiently. A $250 pair of mikes will not make you run any fast than a pair of $50 pro wings. But by it utilizing air cushions and what ever else goes into a pair of shoes that expensive, it makes the run a lot more comfortable for the runner. Making it easier to complete that marathon without as much stress on the body. Where have you ever seen where something that cost twice as much performs twice as well? Ok now again I'm no engineer, but I know I have the basics right. So stop saying its not worth the money.

AK Maniak said:

I can't believe this thread is still alive. Worth is subjective! I don't know why people care about how much some one else is willing to spend on a part. A more expensive product doesn't make it better by any means but at the same time you get what you pay for. It's pathetic how cheap some DSM'ers are when it comes to stuff like this. Go look at what it costs for aftermarket parts on different platforms.

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You are so right. I have said on many occasions that this is the reason no one wants to bother with these cars. Most everything has to be custom made. Some of those guys don't want to be bothered. Someday it is due to the introduction to the US, I don't think so. It's because of the cheapness. My friend has a g35. He had a intake mani for his car and it cost him 4k. It's a wonder why there are fwd Hondas in the 9s and 8s but I see no fwd Dsm. Or at least there are many more. This is because Honda guys will spend money without wimpering about it.

godschylde777 said:

First off I'm not a noob with money. Don't start with the insults. I have built my car with my bare hands, taking the time to read and do things the right way. Never half doing anything. If you remember I even fixed a motor you as a veteran messed up. Me haveing money does not make me ignorant to the value of quality and longevity. I own a Magnus race. I could have used it, but when this came up for sale I asked around and was advices by many true VETRANS to buy it. I listened to them. Now as far as one product costing twice the amount as another product and you getting double the performance out of said product....well that is fullish. You would be happy to see an increase of 3-5% per $100. That's being generous. That just does not happen in the real world. Especially when it comes to performance car parts. What I have learned as a NOOB, is that it is not that any given part will ad Hp to your current setup. Yet it allows the Hp or to to be gained more efficiently. A $250 pair of mikes will not make you run any fast than a pair of $50 pro wings. But by it utilizing air cushions and what ever else goes into a pair of shoes that expensive, it makes the run a lot more comfortable for the runner. Making it easier to complete that marathon without as much stress on the body. Where have you ever seen where something that cost twice as much performs twice as well? Ok now again I'm no engineer, but I know I have the basics right. So stop saying its not worth the money.



You are so right. I have said on many occasions that this is the reason no one wants to bother with these cars. Most everything has to be custom made. Some of those guys don't want to be bothered. Someday it is due to the introduction to the US, I don't think so. It's because of the cheapness. My friend has a g35. He had a intake mani for his car and it cost him 4k. It's a wonder why there are fwd Hondas in the 9s and 8s but I see no fwd Dsm. Or at least there are many more. This is because Honda guys will spend money without wimpering about it.

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Dude are you talking about. No one said you were a noob you really got that I was calling you a noob from my post really? All I said was I don't want someone who doesn't no better(never hinted or implied that I was saying YOU) from thinking that this manifold was night and day better than the others out there are thus worth the $500 more that it cost for this than most other top notch manifolds. Like it was said by me and others price is subjective and what's too much is the opinion of the buyer/customer. We as dsmers are all potential customers and me as customer doesn't think it's worth the 1200 price tag you as a customer do. Not that serious I don't even know why this is even still going around in circles. I'm not even sure why this is still going around in cicrles. Other people think it's too much too there are people that think it is. The people that have the money that think it is the people that don't won't

As far as your inapropriate engine reference I'm not gonna go there all I'll say is I've been around but I'm not end all be all engine builder and already admited to messing up. You got a great deal to begin with plus money back so bringing up past things like that is out of place in a thread that has nothing to do with engines or even me personally and my experience.

Aslo perfect example with the Mikes because that's how this manifold comes off as a part that because of it's name and the builders repuation as making expensive higher quality stuff they can justify charging a crazy price. I own Mikes and I have other sneakers and my Mikes are NOT my most comfortable now do I jump the highest in them. They just have a little Mike logo on them...so they cost a shit load. Supply and demand mixed with the American need to keep up with the jones's. Btw my Trailblazer SS intake manifold after $500 in machine work just to get the injector bungs drilled out $500 for manifold and $200 for the elbow to bolt up to the tb cost yes that's right $1200 so it's not a matter of being cheap it's a matter of worth which again is determined by the buyer.

Slippi84 said:

Dude are you talking about. No one said you were a noob you really got that I was calling you a noob from my post really? All I said was I don't want someone who doesn't no better(never hinted or implied that I was saying YOU) from thinking that this manifold was night and day better than the others out there are thus worth the $500 more that it cost for this than most other top notch manifolds. Like it was said by me and others price is subjective and what's too much is the opinion of the buyer/customer. We as dsmers are all potential customers and me as customer doesn't think it's worth the 1200 price tag you as a customer do. Not that serious I don't even know why this is even still going around in circles. I'm not even sure why this is still going around in cicrles. Other people think it's too much too there are people that think it is. The people that have the money that think it is the people that don't won't

As far as your inapropriate engine reference I'm not gonna go there all I'll say is I've been around but I'm not end all be all engine builder and already admited to messing up. You got a great deal to begin with plus money back so bringing up past things like that is out of place in a thread that has nothing to do with engines or even me personally and my experience.

Aslo perfect example with the Mikes because that's how this manifold comes off as a part that because of it's name and the builders repuation as making expensive higher quality stuff they can justify charging a crazy price. I own Mikes and I have other sneakers and my Mikes are NOT my most comfortable now do I jump the highest in them. They just have a little Mike logo on them...so they cost a shit load. Supply and demand mixed with the American need to keep up with the jones's. Btw my Trailblazer SS intake manifold after $500 in machine work just to get the injector bungs drilled out $500 for manifold and $200 for the elbow to bolt up to the tb cost yes that's right $1200 so it's not a matter of being cheap it's a matter of worth which again is determined by the buyer.

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Any one reading you op would have taken that younwere calling me a noob. That's how I took it. Mid you did not mean it that way then so be it. As far as the motor I was stating only in reference to your noob response that even veterans can make mistakes.mmyes you made things right there is no question about that I was not bashing you on that.

Now you are right about the nikes, they don't last on daily wear. But man they look good. I believe the manifold is worth it. Now will it get me in the 9s on price alone. I doubt it, but it couldn't hurt

Does albert even still make DSM stuff?

I had a buddy message him about getting an intercooler kit and he never responded

Not sure

It's a shame he never mass produced these, would have been nice to get my hands on one of them without spending over a grand, which is just silly. Love the manifold, love the design, but the price was/is ridiculous, 1200 can be spent on a bigger turbo for bigger gains. ANY manifold over 500 is sheer idiocy.

Cheap cheap said the little bird. $500, a mass produced intake for a sbc is still 250. And you expect.this for 500.get lost.

bastarddsm said:

Cheap cheap said the little bird. $500, a mass produced intake for a sbc is still 250. And you expect.this for 500.get lost.

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my point exactly. Cheap. What good does it do to spend 1200 on a turbo when it is being choked out by a cheap manifold. That's like buying the best suspension on the market, yet using cheap tires. Whats the point? Again with the cheapness.

I agree 500 is lowballing but I agree in principal but not in practice. Its not about what else you could buy with 1200 its that THIS manifold is overpriced at 1200...in my opinion. Just cause something is rare doesnt automatically make it valuable And vise versa things that are a dime a dozen arent always cheap. Even with that said I could see this manifood at 8 maybe 900 max because it is good and rare. Going with a jmf or Magnus will not keep you from achieving your goal.

Slippi84 said:

I agree 500 is lowballing but I agree in principal but not in practice. Its not about what else you could buy with 1200 its that THIS manifold is overpriced at 1200...in my opinion. Just cause something is rare doesnt automatically make it valuable And vise versa things that are a dime a dozen arent always cheap. Even with that said I could see this manifood at 8 maybe 900 max because it is good and rare. Going with a jmf or Magnus will not keep you from achieving your goal.

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Two things make this manifold worth the money is that it works and that it is rare. It is now in my possession, and after looking at it closer you sir have no idea what you are talking about. No disrespect, but I have read this entire thread and seen you bash this manifold. I have to tell you. I own a Magnus race manifold, and it is nice, yet the dvdtfab is in a whole other ball park. Will it add another 50hp onto my already staggering expected hp? probably not, but I can tell you this that out of all the top notch parts on my car this has to be the nicest. I would have gladly paid $1,500+ for it it is just that nice. Now I'm done. Everyone else that has seen it or knows about it is in aw and would love to have one. You on the other hand, well I don't know what your problem is. You spent money on high dollar parts that some would argue was not necessary to achieve big hp #s. Guy are making nice power with eagle rods or cp pistons, why spend the extra coin on r&r rods or wiseco hds? Because they were proven? I'm done. This mani will truly make my build NO COMPROMISE