I'm working on implementing a sway bar right now. Attaching the sway bar ends to the control arms is the only real complication. I plan to use a male/female heim combination for an adjustable end link, and I'll attach it to the forward side of the control arm with a double shear connection for added strength. Thoughts, opinions, suggestions...?

I think it's brilliant man!

Would limiting the arm travel/angle by the double sheer cause any issues? I'm trying to picture how much the arm at that end would be able to move on a stock setup, but it's not really coming to me.

I was going to do it that way on my car but since I was using a rod end on each end I was worried about the twisting force it was going to put on the arms. It could potentially have he same problem in your setup and cause binding at both the inboard and outboard ends of the arms. You may also need to box in the out board end of the lateral arm.
You could build a twin tube arm and center the link like the OEM arms if this turns out to be an actual problem. It was just a theory I had and it gave me the excuse to build a torsen bar setup.

snowborder714 said:

Would limiting the arm travel/angle by the double sheer cause any issues? I'm trying to picture how much the arm at that end would be able to move on a stock setup, but it's not really coming to me.

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The double shear connection won't affect travel at all and I plan to use heim spacers between the heim and the tabs to allow for more heim articulation.

greengoblin said:

I was going to do it that way on my car but since I was using a rod end on each end I was worried about the twisting force it was going to put on the arms. It could potentially have he same problem in your setup and cause binding at both the inboard and outboard ends of the arms. You may also need to box in the out board end of the lateral arm.
You could build a twin tube arm and center the link like the OEM arms if this turns out to be an actual problem. It was just a theory I had and it gave me the excuse to build a torsen bar setup.

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The twisting force is the only part that I don't love about this set-up. Although, with the bracket that I use on the outboard end of the control arm, I don't think it will be any issues (once boxed). I wish there was clearance to run it directly off the top of the arm. Maybe I can raise the sway bar an inch? I'll have to measure.

A twin tube arm would be sweet, but also would take much more time and money to build.

twicks69 said:

You would be suprised, doing a fuel cell (in the stock location like Frontline Fab's) and a tube subframe, along with chopping out the spare tire well makes the rear bumper even more of a parachute. It is really shocking to see how much it takes up for space with all the rest of the crap removed from the car. I need to either make a belly pan or chop my bumper and do a diffuser with some other aero to prevent the ass-turns-into-parachute effect (AKA MC Hammer Effect).

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Werd. After installing my FF cell, I remember looking at the underside of the rear of the car and thinking "wow, without a spare tire well and the stock gas tank (nevermind the stock subframe), the underside of this thing is now as aerodynamic as the side of a barn".

Paul, definitely interested in one of these once they're ready to go - keep up the good work

I'm getting excited.

99gst_racer said:

The double shear connection won't affect travel at all and I plan to use heim spacers between the heim and the tabs to allow for more heim articulation.


The twisting force is the only part that I don't love about this set-up. Although, with the bracket that I use on the outboard end of the control arm, I don't think it will be any issues (once boxed). I wish there was clearance to run it directly off the top of the arm. Maybe I can raise the sway bar an inch? I'll have to measure.

A twin tube arm would be sweet, but also would take much more time and money to build.

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You should be fine if the OEM rubber bushing is used how ever since you have a zero resistance bearing in the inboard position it cuts the resistance of the bar to twist about in half. That is my understanding anyway.
If a person wants to run a bearing in the knuckle it "may" not be so good. I honestly don't know though because I never played around with it.

I say build one and load it up to see what happens.

I'll probably play around with a twin tube design over the next 2 weeks. I do have a nice bender on the way now, so I'll see what I can do with that.

Is a 1g subframe still in the works?

It's planned for later this year.

I'm sooooo waiting on the opportunity to order mine.

Paul put this up on his FB page, he's making progress! Everythings tacked up and ready to weld and once that's done then it's off to the powder coater! Paul built this subframe with thicker wall chromoly (.095" rather than .065" that he used on John's drag car), included rear sway bar mounts, and fit it to work with the OE gas tank and Frontline Fab diff cover. With the thicker wall the subframe gained an extra 3.3lbs (but it's 30% stronger), according to Paul's calculations, but will stand up to a bit more abuse since I'll be using my car as a DD as well as at the track.



More pictures to come I'm sure!

very nice

99gst_racer said:

A few weld pics:

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what type of filler did you use and at what heat setting with what type or material? These welds look tits!

er-70s2 is the chromoly filler metal of choice among cage builders

urbansmoker1 said:

what type of filler did you use and at what heat setting with what type or material? These welds look tits!

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It was welded with a Syncrowave 250 cranked all the way up and controlled with the pedal. It was probably in the 60-70 amp range most of the time though. We always use 70S-2 filler on 4130 tubing.

99gst_racer said:

It was welded with a Syncrowave 250 cranked all the way up and controlled with the pedal. It was probably in the 60-70 amp range most of the time though. We always use 70S-2 filler on 4130 tubing.

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Good to know! I plan on making cages someday when my tig skills increase i love welding, I'm trying to pick up a miller 165 but im not sure it will penetrate chromoly as well as the syncrowave

thanks for the info!

gofer said:

Paul put this up on his FB page, he's making progress! Everythings tacked up and ready to weld and once that's done then it's off to the powder coater! Paul built this subframe with thicker wall chromoly (.095" rather than .065" that he used on John's drag car), included rear sway bar mounts, and fit it to work with the OE gas tank and Frontline Fab diff cover. With the thicker wall the subframe gained an extra 3.3lbs (but it's 30% stronger), according to Paul's calculations, but will stand up to a bit more abuse since I'll be using my car as a DD as well as at the track.

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More pictures to come I'm sure!

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I want.

Here's another idea for sway bar attachment. I can locate the double shear tabs on the top of the control arm and then shorten both heims to make for a shorter end link.

The OE end link connects to the sway bar roughly 1.675" above the centerline of the arm. I can shorten the heims to allow for it to connect to the sway bar roughly 3.000" above the centerline of the arm. This would move the sway bar ends upward 1.325". And with the arm mounted to the raised pickup point, it will move the sway bar point up another .200" or so.

I don't forsee anything wrong with the sway bar angled upward ~10 degrees. I might even be able to compensate by moving the sway bar mounting points up about 1.5" on the backside of the subframe. Thoughts?

• So, with the sway bar raised 3" above center line, would this decrease body roll?
• If the sway bar is angled upward 10*, without you compensating for it, in a hard turn wouldn't that increase torsion on the sway bar and possibly break it?
• Raising it to compensate for those 10* I'm hoping it will still clear the bottom of the chassis?

If there are benefits to raising the rear sway bar above center line without putting increased stress on it by angling it upwards (or running into clearance issues) then I think it's a good idea. Still, I wish I knew more about suspension theory.

In theory, this proposed idea won't change sway bar operation by any noticeable or measurable amount. And it would be a solid solution to use a spherical end link on a single beam control arm. These reason behind these changes is simply be to make it all fit while attaching the end link to the top of a single beam arm.

You have that much distance between the lateral arm and the axle?

From a book or web site I read a while back.

Also where the bar is attached to the lower control arm, the connection should be positioned at right angles to the sway bar arm as well as the lower control arm. Any angle in the link can greatly increase the "felt" rate of the bar.

I'll play with it this week and see where my clearances are.

Did you add that "hoop" over the diff for additional support? I couldn't pick that out in the pictures you posted of Johns. That looks pretty damn solid to me, Paul, just curious to see how these sway bar mounts play out.

I'm moving to AZ the end of July *cough* and won't have a garage for a few months while I live at the girlfriends parents house. *cough cough*

Looking great!