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The Ultimate 2G DSM

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dr1665

dr1665

DSM N/T Wiseman
DSM Wiseman
2,069
66
Jan 6, 2003
Phoenix, Arizona
Assume money is no object and we have every tool we could ever need at our disposal.
Assume everyone who participates in this thread is on a team tasked with building the ultimate 2G DSM.
Assume I will be posing the same question on other forums and will be sharing the results on Gearbox Magazine.

That said, let's get started!

What will be this ultimate 2G DSM's greatest strengths and weaknesses?

GOGOGO
 
Oh, LOLz. Good one.
 
Send it to the extreme motor sports in greece that do all the crazy ass shit.
The downside? It still isn't a 1g.

That said I'd trade it for a 1g first thing if I had a 2g.
 
Still isn't a 1G. As a fellow DSMer with respect and admiration for the original DSM, I know what you mean, but I've also posted this elsewhere and wanted to see how the build ideas would differ, given the same chassis. If we're all talking 2G chassis, we can see how the tech changes underneath.

Really looking for more than just "Send it to Shep" or those crazy Greeks, guys. If money was no object and any technology was available, would you guys still just ship the car to a shop with a blank check and call it a day? The DSM is as respected as it is because respect is built - not bought.

Think outside the box, gentlemen. This isn't an exercise in buying the most expensive, off-the-shelf bits we can think of. This is DSMtuners, not DSMshoppers. You want to run a 4M41 common rail turbo diesel with a Toyota 9" rear end? Fine. Tell me why. You want to fit a supercharged BMW S50B32 and a Haldex AWD system? Fine. Tell me why!

The first step is deciding what the ultimate 2G DSM is going to do best. Will it be a land speed car, a quarter-mile car, road racer, autoxer, daily driver? I really want to see what DSMtuners can come up with these days.
 
007jimmy said:
If i could stuff an LS9 into a GS-X I would. Maybe just make it RWD though.
Click to expand...

Now we're talking. Why would you go LSX/RWD? What would that add to the DSM? What would we lose? And do you think it could still be considered a DSM if it were GM-powered?

This is cool stuff. Keep 'em coming!
 
dr1665 said:
Now we're talking. Why would you go LSX/RWD? What would that add to the DSM? What would we lose? And do you think it could still be considered a DSM if it were GM-powered?

This is cool stuff. Keep 'em coming!
Click to expand...

well the ls9 idea is cool, you would lose traction, obviously, alot of traction loss.. but you would gain displacement, tq and hp, a crate ls9 comes like 630 hp... but in all honesty, if you were going with an lsX engine, why not put it in a crx hatch and just make another light, powerful civette.. the ultimate 2g eclipse for me would be a GSX, to keep the 4G63, and keep the AWD... tube chassis, fat slicks on all 4 corners, and a huge turbo pushing 40 lbs of boost.
 
I would build a road race DSM. No holds barred? Right off the bat, install Andrew Brilliant's widebody kit and up the tire sizes. The aerodynamics of the kit is the best there is to offer. For the really long winded runs, size the radiator and move it forward into the rad support.

Another DSMer on here has done that and developed ducting that flows from the radiator to the vents. The vents themselves on the hood is excellent but if I could I would size the openings smaller for jet propulsion kind of thrust to further increase downforce. The kit might already do that, I'm not sure but given the area of your average radiator versus the size of the vents, not much thrust would be developed. I'm only eyeballing. In front of the radiator, the kit has a diffuser in the front. I'd build a splitter, the top going up and over the FMIC to feed air to the radiator. The bottom would feed the FMIC. I haven't figured out how to move the airflow out of the car after the intercooler though. I'm thinking divided ducts that lead to the front brakes so it'll also cool the brakes down.

Suspension wise, lowering the car decreases the travel and increases camber. Custom built spindles on all four corners that are shorter than stock so the top A arms are still parallel to the ground and not all having sex with the shock tower and it'll also solve the excessive negative camber. Raise the subframe mounts as well. Or just build a custom subframe that's also lighter than stock.

That's all I can think of for now. :|
 
crimsondragon said:
I would build a road race DSM. No holds barred? Right off the bat, install Andrew Brilliant's widebody kit and up the tire sizes. The aerodynamics of the kit is the best there is to offer. For the really long winded runs, size the radiator and move it forward into the rad support.

Another DSMer on here has done that and developed ducting that flows from the radiator to the vents. The vents themselves on the hood is excellent but if I could I would size the openings smaller for jet propulsion kind of thrust to further increase downforce. The kit might already do that, I'm not sure but given the area of your average radiator versus the size of the vents, not much thrust would be developed. I'm only eyeballing. In front of the radiator, the kit has a diffuser in the front. I'd build a splitter, the top going up and over the FMIC to feed air to the radiator. The bottom would feed the FMIC. I haven't figured out how to move the airflow out of the car after the intercooler though. I'm thinking divided ducts that lead to the front brakes so it'll also cool the brakes down.

Suspension wise, lowering the car decreases the travel and increases camber. Custom built spindles on all four corners that are shorter than stock so the top A arms are still parallel to the ground and not all having sex with the shock tower and it'll also solve the excessive negative camber. Raise the subframe mounts as well. Or just build a custom subframe that's also lighter than stock.

That's all I can think of for now. :|
Click to expand...

I was just going to say, take Andrew Brilliant's car and re-purpose it for AWD. Done.
 
Why stuff a LS9 motor in it? These car's are known for their motors being badass, why change that?
 
Because I'm a Chevy guy at heart. I've stuffed an Ls into everything else so why not. I'm not one for the basic cookie cutter build. The op asked for something different so why not an Ls. Tub out the rear, add a narrowed ford 9 inch and a 4link for traction and be set. I see no problems with getting traction with the 4link setup and correct pinion angle. It will squat hard in the rear and probably hang the front tires.
 
Auto, AWD, 2.4, something on the level of 600ish Hp, , abilty to run something mid 10's, 200+ in a LSR setting, 1+ g's on a skid pad. Driven on the street with all the creature comforts.

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2.4l 420a, AWD conversion done. The biggest turbo, injectors, and fuel pump MS could support. Complete frame replacement with lightweight everything. Recaro seats. LSD, and paddle sequential shifting. Drop the car on Hotbits rally spec coilovers, the lightest strongest wheels money could buy, and have 4 sets of those wheels, wrap those wheels in some bridestones that can handle tarmac, and some dirt. 6 pt harness, Antilag for a 4, 2 2.5" exhaust system which would be straight pipe. Replace the entire bodywork with an exact lighter replica. Replace the fuel tank with a fuel cell. Skid plate undercarraige armor.

Go gymkhana

Push the HP goal to 600
 
So road race all the way, then. Which would be better for a road race DSM, then - RWD LSX power or AWD 4G63/4B11 power?

Oof da! Had the tab open so long before replying, I missed the last two replies. I like Pat's idea. 10-second ETs, 200mph LSR, and 1+ lateral g sounds like a real badass, but is something like that even possible? LSR cars run heavier to stay on the planet at those speeds and run skinnier tires for less rolling resistance. I think those would compromise the ET and lateral gs. Maybe?

And I love Leon's idea of the 2.4L AWD 420A on Hotbits. Two of my favorite things, really, and if the exact lighter replica bodywork is that carbon fiber setup Squidskins offered back in the day, we're talking three of my favorite things, but I digress.

This is good stuff. Keep it coming!
 
I would try to keep the Aero stuff to a minimum. Even the short wing on my 2G irritates me. Tires would be a concession to Top Speed runs, but the idea of not having to change anything to do each event is what I would try. At this point I have the car, the motor, I need to put the two together. The motor is slated for my Summit but I dunno.
 
PieEyedPiper said:
I was just going to say, take Andrew Brilliant's car and re-purpose it for AWD. Done.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this, for road race. I also love the idea of an efficient stock body class top speed car (Andrew planted this idea in my head to do with my car LOL). Personally, my idea of an "ultimate 2g" is stock 97-99 aero, modified front bumper (fog light delete), modified rear bumper (only for diffusing air better), and a simple yet effective 2.3L 7-bolt GT4088R AWD Auto setup with modified 2g head and mivec cam setup, dry sump oiling, mechanical fuel pump with pickup pump in fuel cell. Good suspension components , good lightweight brakes, ceramic wheel bearings, AEM EMS, etc. Effective, relatively reliable, and all doable. 9-second daily driver. If I wanted a manual, it would be a modified KAPS air shifted sequential 5-speed dogbox with strain gauge ignition retard module on a manual shifter assembly. As well, most definitely a well built roll cage with a hardtop car and get the weight down to the 2400# range.


I don't need motor swaps or transmission swaps, etc. I am sort of a Mitsubishi purist. Mazda RX7's, well them on the other hand I like Rotaries, but definitely swaps in their chassis.
 
dr1665 said:
So road race all the way, then. Which would be better for a road race DSM, then - RWD LSX power or AWD 4G63/4B11 power?

Oof da! Had the tab open so long before replying, I missed the last two replies. I like Pat's idea. 10-second ETs, 200mph LSR, and 1+ lateral g sounds like a real badass, but is something like that even possible? LSR cars run heavier to stay on the planet at those speeds and run skinnier tires for less rolling resistance. I think those would compromise the ET and lateral gs. Maybe?

And I love Leon's idea of the 2.4L AWD 420A on Hotbits. Two of my favorite things, really, and if the exact lighter replica bodywork is that carbon fiber setup Squidskins offered back in the day, we're talking three of my favorite things, but I digress.

This is good stuff. Keep it coming!
Click to expand...

Ahhh, the good ole squidskins dry carbon stuff was awesome, it is a shame he stopped making it. I really wanted the dry carbon dash, hatch and doors.
 
Been a while, but the story went live recently, if anyone was curious to see how other DSMers answered this question..

link
 
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